Door gasket replacement for newbies

[gyrfalcon]

Here's what I learned today. I think. Those of you who know what you're talking about far better than I, please correct, refine, add to.

When you replace old door gasket with new, the door will take major effort to close over the new gasket material. It will seem like you must have used a size too big and that the door won't close, but if you are using the right size, it will close but it needs considerable force. A well-trained elephant would be most helpful in pushing the door closed against the new material, but if you haven't got one of those at hand, a robust male with strong muscles and sturdy rubber-soled shoes is next best. Although I'm no body-builder or athlete, I'm also not one of those super-delicate flowers of womanhood, and I could not get the blasted thing closed myself. The strong male who did couldn't do it easily.

Forcing the door closed over the new gasket will compress it enough that it will be somewhat easier the next time. I have been assured by the experienced robust male who accomplished this feat for my stove that it will keep getting easier as the gasket material gets compressed by repeated operation of the door. I believe him. I have no choice, but I believe him anyway.

Before said male appeared at my house, I wondered whether the door was refusing to close because the somewhat stretchy gasket material was intended to be stretched out to make it thinner in the gasket groove, but I only succeeded in making a mess when I tried this. It's not the way it's intended to work, apparently.

Secondary point-- don't overload the cement, but don't skimp on it, either. Heeding the warnings on the cement tube not to overapply, I had put down a fairly thin line of it, but the expert personage used a much thicker spread.

Being clueless myself, I thought "How hard can this be?" but was careful not to try doing it until the day I knew the expert was going to be stopping by, just in case. I'm very glad I did. It is perfectly simple to do yourself, even if you're as un-handy as I am, but those two bits of info-- the only seeming oversize of the new gasket material and the need to not try to skimp on the cement-- make the difference between replacing the gasket successfully and disabling your stove door until an expert can be summoned.

It would be VERY, VERY helpful if those small but essential clues were provided in A) stove manuals, B) gasket packaging, C) cement package instructions, D) vendor Web sites, etc.

Count me as another semi-newbie semi-maddened by the number of really unnecessary guessing games involved in all this. Since stove dealers and manufacturers don't seem the least interested in bothering to provide customers with enough information to use and maintain their wood-burners properly, I'm strongly in favor of establishing on this site a collection of basic information labeled something like Essential Basics for New Wood Burners prominently linked on the top of every single page. A great deal of the necessary stuff could be pretty easily collected from the Wiki and other places on Hearth.com, but to be truly useful it does need to be brought together in one place, labled something like the above, and prominent enough that it's practically impossible to miss for people first coming to the site, including on the home page and the registration page.

 

[Hogwildz]

Here's what I learned today. I think. Those of you who know what you're talking about far better than I, please correct, refine, add to.

When you replace old door gasket with new, the door will take major effort to close over the new gasket material. It will seem like you must have used a size too big and that the door won't close, but if you are using the right size, it will close but it needs considerable force. A well-trained elephant would be most helpful in pushing the door closed against the new material, but if you haven't got one of those at hand, a robust male with strong muscles and sturdy rubber-soled shoes is next best. Although I'm no body-builder or athlete, I'm also not one of those super-delicate flowers of womanhood, and I could not get the blasted thing closed myself. The strong male who did couldn't do it easily.
It will be tighter than the prior used gasket, but should not take that much force. Remember to readjust the door after replacing the gasket, as the new one is not as compressed as the old.
A high density gasket will not compress as much as a low so you may not notice a huge indent in the old gasket if it is made of this material and closes on a knife edge style opening.
Same with a flat style opening.



Forcing the door closed over the new gasket will compress it enough that it will be somewhat easier the next time. I have been assured by the experienced robust male who accomplished this feat for my stove that it will keep getting easier as the gasket material gets compressed by repeated operation of the door. I believe him. I have no choice, but I believe him anyway.
It will compress some over time & usage, again depends if high density which compresses less, or the lower density which will compress more.

Before said male appeared at my house, I wondered whether the door was refusing to close because the somewhat stretchy gasket material was intended to be stretched out to make it thinner in the gasket groove, but I only succeeded in making a mess when I tried this. It's not the way it's intended to work, apparently.
DO NOT stretch the gasket, some gasket manufacturers even state that on the packaging.
Lay it on and somewhat taunt, but don't stretch or pull it.

Secondary point-- don't overload the cement, but don't skimp on it, either. Heeding the warnings on the cement tube not to overapply, I had put down a fairly thin line of it, but the expert personage used a much thicker spread.
Do yourself a favor and toss the cement and use hi temp silicone. Easier to remove & clean next time for gasket replacement, and holds better in my opinion. I used about a 3/8" bead and its holding great.
A wire wheel in a drill works great for cleaning the old silicone or cement off.

Being clueless myself, I thought "How hard can this be?" but was careful not to try doing it until the day I knew the expert was going to be stopping by, just in case. I'm very glad I did. It is perfectly simple to do yourself, even if you're as un-handy as I am, but those two bits of info-- the only seeming oversize of the new gasket material and the need to not try to skimp on the cement-- make the difference between replacing the gasket successfully and disabling your stove door until an expert can be summoned.

After a few times, it takes no time and not as much effort & frustration to replace the gasket. Its a hands on learning type thing.

It would be VERY, VERY helpful if those small but essential clues were provided in A) stove manuals, B) gasket packaging, C) cement package instructions, D) vendor Web sites, etc.

Count me as another semi-newbie semi-maddened by the number of really unnecessary guessing games involved in all this. Since stove dealers and manufacturers don't seem the least interested in bothering to provide customers with enough information to use and maintain their wood-burners properly, I'm strongly in favor of establishing on this site a collection of basic information labeled something like Essential Basics for New Wood Burners prominently linked on the top of every single page. A great deal of the necessary stuff could be pretty easily collected from the Wiki and other places on Hearth.com, but to be truly useful it does need to be brought together in one place, labled something like the above, and prominent enough that it's practically impossible to miss for people first coming to the site, including on the home page and the registration page.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Great information. But...

You say to "readjust the door." I have no clue what that means. I can't find anything on my door that invites adjustment. What are you talking about specifically? The handle is not adjustable. The door itself simply sits on a couple of hinges. What would one adjust?

High density versus low density gaskets-- sounds like it might be exactly the problem here. But my package of Rutland gasket says nothing about density, or any similar term. It just says "replacement stove gasket." So how is one to know what one has?

The wire wheel for the drill sounds like just the thing. Thank you. I was worried about the possibility of needing to scrape out old cement, but when I pulled the old manufacturer-installed gasket, there wasn't any. It was pretty much clean as a whistle. But I'll definitely get the wire wheel. Sounds like something that would be useful in a number of other situations, too.

The Rutland gasket cement I got doesn't say anything about silicone, but the the label warning does say "contains sodium silicate." That's a different thing than you mean?

Many thanks for the tips. This is exactly what I was hoping for.

Replacing the door gasket is one of those fairly small things that can bring misery if you don't know what you're doing. I escaped only because I did it when my chimney sweep/installer was due to come by and do it right if I screwed up-- as I did.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Hopefully you do have the correct size gasket in there. The adjustment for the door should be on the handle. Usually found when you open the door and look at the latch on the inside. Look for a double nut (one tightens and the other locks it). Loosen the nut some and then try the door. Don't forget the dollar bill (or a sheet of paper) test at the end. If you close the door on a dollar bill and can pull it out, the door is too loose.

 

[Yamaha_gurl]

Don't forget the dollar bill (or a sheet of paper) test at the end. If you close the door on a dollar bill and can pull it out, the door is too loose.

Just curious, does this mean lost heat will happen or the room will fill with smoke? What happends if your door is too loose?

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Usually not smoke loss unless burning green wood, but you can certainly get excessive draft so you fire might get too hot.

 

[Hogwildz]

Great information. But...

You say to "readjust the door." I have no clue what that means. I can't find anything on my door that invites adjustment. What are you talking about specifically? The handle is not adjustable. The door itself simply sits on a couple of hinges. What would one adjust?
I am not sure with your particular stove. My handle latches on the outside and the latch itself must be bent inward or outward to adjust, when the handle shaft slides over this latch it then pulls the door tight. If loose, which it was when I changed the gasket, I bent it in a tad.

High density versus low density gaskets-- sounds like it might be exactly the problem here. But my package of Rutland gasket says nothing about density, or any similar term. It just says "replacement stove gasket." So how is one to know what one has?
You can tell by the feel & wrap of the gasket. The high density ones are tightly wrapped, and kind of rigid. The low density ones are not falling apart, but more loosely wrapped. And if you press it between your fingers it compresses alot, which the low density gaskets do not compress all that much.

The wire wheel for the drill sounds like just the thing. Thank you. I was worried about the possibility of needing to scrape out old cement, but when I pulled the old manufacturer-installed gasket, there wasn't any. It was pretty much clean as a whistle. But I'll definitely get the wire wheel. Sounds like something that would be useful in a number of other situations, too.
The manufacturer gasket may have had a pre applied adhesive on it. Even if you don't see any adhesive on the door. I would give it at wipe down with rubbing alcohol to clean any unseen film that might remain.
You want that door clean as you can get it when you set the new gasket.

The Rutland gasket cement I got doesn't say anything about silicone, but the the label warning does say "contains sodium silicate." That's a different thing than you mean?
The cement is just that, it a usually black gooey cement that you squeeze out of a small tube. It hardens like cement as it dries. Hi temp silicone may also come in a small squeeze tube, I use the hi temp silicone that comes in a caulk tube, and applied with a caulking gun. Silicone is a different texture & you can't mistake the smell. It comes in a few different colors. I try and find black, but it really doesn't matter as you don't see much of it, and if it does ooze a lil, its inside the door and you still wont see it. BTW, from my experience too much it not a good thing, especially with the cement.
I have noticed any silicone I have used that oozed out of the sides of the gasket and door surface, usually burns off. But the silicone under the gasket between it & the door, is just fine.
I have tried both, and my personal preference is the silicone. I found it easier to clean off when changing gaskets, and it held better in my use. Of course this is merely my experience with these.
Others might feel differently.

Many thanks for the tips. This is exactly what I was hoping for.

Replacing the door gasket is one of those fairly small things that can bring misery if you don't know what you're doing. I escaped only because I did it when my chimney sweep/installer was due to come by and do it right if I screwed up-- as I did.

I always keep a back up gasket on hand. Without it, your screwed.
And It comes in handy when ya screw the first attempt up. This is from personal experience.

 

[gyrfalcon]

OK, I'm still having a big problem with closing the door. The gasket material is just too thick, even after several days of working it, and I'm wondering if I need to take this stuff out and start over with a thinner gasket. (This is the looser stuff, from the description of the packaging, but it ain't loose enough!)

WHen I called the Hearthstone dealer here to ask what size gasket I should get for the stove, they said firmly 3/8 inch, which I dutifully bought. But Rutland also makes a gasket they say is 1/4 (4/16) inch to 5/16. Doing my arithmetic, the stuff I put in that's giving me trouble is 6/16, so this would be just a tiny bit thinner.

The only other things I can think of to do are to slice this stuff I've already got in there down the line with a razor blade to see if that lets the edge of the stove door frame fit into it better, or taking a fresh piece of gasket and trying to thin it out by stretching it tight for a couple of days.

Anybody have any other ideas? Is there any reason the 1/16-inch thinner stuff wouldn't be worth a try? How come Hearthstone is recommending something that's too damn big for the stove anyway?

This is really starting to worry me, I'm having so much trouble getting the door closed-- finding the latch point and applying just the right amount of pressure to slide it in behind the lip. It sometimes takes me a dozen or more tries before I get it latched, and because this is such a small stove, I need to open the door and fuss around frequently, especially in the first couple hours in the morning when I'm getting a coal bed established for the day. I'm also starting to worry about wearing down or even breaking the lip itself.

And worst of all, the other day I came downstairs in the morning to discover I hadn't gotten the door really latched the night before and it had slipped open during the night. (Yes, I have smoke detectors, but omigod!)

 

[Hogwildz]

I still say you need to adjust the latch.
I can't see a whole 1/16th of an inch making that big a difference.
If you try to slice the gasket down, it will fall apart. Its woven and you will cut the braids and it will be toast at that point.
Call your manufacturer again and ask them how to adjust the door. Better to try and do it right, than cut corners.

 

[Hogwildz]

I did a quick breeze through your manual. I did not see anything about door adjustment. It did however instruct to close door immediately after setting gasket to set the gasket into place and assure a positive seal.
Did you hopefully do this? It also does call for the low density gasket for door, high density for the glass.
It would be nice for other Tribute owners to jump in..........HELLO!!

 

[Backwoods Savage]

gyrfalcon, your post makes me worry more than a little bit. I hate to suggest the smaller gasket because the manufacturer said you have the right one. If it were me, I just might try it though. Better yet would be to have someone else look at the stove door. Someone who is somewhat knowledgeable. You might even see if someone from where you bought the gasket could look at it.

On the other hand, it certainly is not a difficult task to adjust that door 1/16" and that is probably the best solution. I must say, I've seen things tight when new gaskets are installed but never to the point yours is.

Whatever you do, do not go to bed until you KNOW for sure that the door is latched securely.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I still say you need to adjust the latch.
I can't see a whole 1/16th of an inch making that big a difference.
If you try to slice the gasket down, it will fall apart. Its woven and you will cut the braids and it will be toast at that point.
Call your manufacturer again and ask them how to adjust the door. Better to try and do it right, than cut corners.

OK, I'lll try calling Hearthstone directly. I see the dealer doesn't apparently carry the Tribute anymore, and I didn't buy it from them directly but secondhand from folks who did buy it from them, so they don't owe me a thing, really.

As for closing the door on the new gasket immediately-- yes, definitely did do that, and got the stove burning a few hours after that, which it it says you're also supposed to do to harden the cement.

 

[gyrfalcon]

gyrfalcon, your post makes me worry more than a little bit. I hate to suggest the smaller gasket because the manufacturer said you have the right one. If it were me, I just might try it though. Better yet would be to have someone else look at the stove door. Someone who is somewhat knowledgeable. You might even see if someone from where you bought the gasket could look at it.

On the other hand, it certainly is not a difficult task to adjust that door 1/16" and that is probably the best solution. I must say, I've seen things tight when new gaskets are installed but never to the point yours is.

Whatever you do, do not go to bed until you KNOW for sure that the door is latched securely.

It makes YOU nervous!! The latch popped again this afternoon and I'm pretty certain I've figured out what I've been doing wrong on that score. Luckily, it's not too cold out at the moment, so I can stand not having an overnight fire, at least for a couple days until I get this really figured out.

I bought the gasket from Northlineexpress.com, so no help there. And I live truly out in the middle of nowhere, the nearest stove store of any kind is a one-person operation about 40 miles away.

I'll try Hearthstone in the morning and see if I can get hold of anybody who can help on door adjustment, though I still can't for the life of me see anything adjustible on any part of it.

Thanks for the moral support, guys!

 

[gyrfalcon]

I figured out what the problem is with the door latch last night, which is there's a bit broken off or worn down on the lip that the latch slips behind and holds the door closed.

The lip on the frame around the stove opening is the shape of a crescent moon, and when the latch on the door itself is pressed against it in the middle and the handle turned, the latch slides under the lip and is then held there in a sort of pocket on the upper end of the lip. So you hold the handle roughly horizontal, press it against the frame, pull the handle down until the latch part lodges firmly in this pocket and is held there, and the handle can't be turned further.

But that doesn't happen anymore. The latch piece slips just slightly past and out beyond the end of the pocket that's supposed to stop it before the handle reaches the end of its turning radius.

Since the latch wouldn't catch but the latching motion I was using wasn't significantly different than it was before I replaced the gasket, I thought the latch simply wasn't able to reach under this lip because the fatter gasket material was preventing the door from closing tight enough to get under it. So cancel all that stuff above about the gasket material being too thick to close the door. That wasn't the problem. It does take a little more effort to press the door fully closed than with the old gasket, but it's not out of line.

I hope that description is clear enough to follow.

To latch the door and have it stay latched, I just have to not turn the handle all the way, so that the latch piece stays behind the lip instead of slipping out the far side.

I'm not wild about this, obviously, although now that I've found the trick, it seems solidly latched, especially with the tighter gasket meaning there's no play in the latch within the lip.

The door frame on the stove itself looks to be a separate piece screwed onto the body of the stove. Ideally, I'd like to replace that since the lip that holds the latch is part of the mold and not a separate piece.

Couple questions-- what's the right term for that piece? If I just call it the door frame, will that be obvious? Secondly, is that piece something one can likely get shipped from the manufacturer? And if so, can you replace it yourself fairly easily?

 

[slindo]

I am not a big fan of Rutland gasket rope, which has always seemed to me a bit flimsy. If the manufacturer supplies its own gasket, it is often worth the extra couple dollars to go with it, unless on examination it appears the stuff they are supplying is the same as Rutland.

I particularly dislike the 1/4"-5/16". If the two sizes are interchangeably, they why to the stove manufacturers bother to use one or the other?

BTW, the reason for gasketing is not to keep heat/smoke in, but to keep air out. Loose gaskets are a common cause of overfiring, which can, over time, seriously damage a stove. Too tight gaskets, on doors especially, can cause leakage too, because by fitting too tight on the hinge side, they can prevent the latch side from closing properly.

 

[fossil]

If you can find an exploded parts diagram for your stove, you'll be able to pinpoint the part you're talking about, find out what the proper terminology is for it, and a manufacturer's part number, and then you've got something to go on to find a source for that part. Good luck! Rick

 

[gyrfalcon]

I am not a big fan of Rutland gasket rope, which has always seemed to me a bit flimsy. If the manufacturer supplies its own gasket, it is often worth the extra couple dollars to go with it, unless on examination it appears the stuff they are supplying is the same as Rutland.

I particularly dislike the 1/4"-5/16". If the two sizes are interchangeably, they why to the stove manufacturers bother to use one or the other?

BTW, the reason for gasketing is not to keep heat/smoke in, but to keep air out. Loose gaskets are a common cause of overfiring, which can, over time, seriously damage a stove. Too tight gaskets, on doors especially, can cause leakage too, because by fitting too tight on the hinge side, they can prevent the latch side from closing properly.

Very good advice. Thank you. Didn't even occur to me to ask the dealer if Hearthstone has its own. I did wonder about the 1/4-5/16 range, too.

The very last problem I had or now have with this stove is overfiring, but I dutifully replaced the gasket because it did fail the dollar bill test with ease. Coincidentally, I hope, I have been having more problems getting the stove up to temp since replacing the gasket than I did before, but it may just be because I've been taking wood from a different stacked batch and it may not be quite as dry, for some reason, as the stuff I was burning before and the weather's been a bit warmer.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Relief that you got things going your way. Now just replace that part and all should be well.

Not seeing the part I can't say for sure if it could be fixed, but we had a stove once that the hole in the fire door where the handle goes through wore so bad it was leaking. I simply mixed up some JB Weld and fixed it. Naturally I had to be very careful in doing it in order to still get a good seal and keep things smooth, but it held for many years with no problems.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Hmmmm. You suggesting i might be able to dab a bit of that stuff on the metal frame to replace the bit on the lip that's broken off or worn down? Might be worth a try before trying to get what will probably not be a cheap cast part and struggling to make the replacement. Suppose it would be strong enough to hold, and that the cast iron wouldn't get too hot for it? I see the stuff is supposed to be good to near 600 degrees, and although I don't expect ever to get the stone stovetop temp that high, isn't the cast iron door frame on the box likely to be a bunch higher?