Double sided fireplace

[Jamiefell]

The dreaded double sided wood fireplace!

I know this has been posted before but I really don’t see a great option for my dilemma.

I am looking for all options for an efficient way to heat and utilize the current fireplace space I have. But also doesn’t cost the same as a new truck.

The openings on both sides measure
H 33” x W 35” x D 39”

Thank you in advance for looking or steering me in a direction.

 

[danham]

As you've discovered, double-sided fireplaces make great wood-powered air conditioners and smoke machines. Our solution, which is working very well, is an insert in the side where we want the most heat (see my icon) and regular glass doors on the other side, which we can open/close depending on how much heat we want off the back of the stove to circulate in the dining room.

 

[Ashful]

Where in PA, Jamie? You wouldn't happen to be on Lurgan Rd. in New Hope, would you? Fireplace looks awful familiar to one I sat in front of many afternoons.

The standard recommendation for these has been to close off one side with something decorative, and place an insert into the remaining side. That decorative block-off could be an old stove plate, fireplace backer plate, sheet metal painted black or with a pretty winter scene.

 

[EbS-P]

Approaching from a heating perspective how many square feet are wanting to heat. Are the ceilings vaulted any where? Supplemental heat? Night weekends? 24/7?

Budget??

 

[Jamiefell]

As you've discovered, double-sided fireplaces make great wood-powered air conditioners and smoke machines. Our solution, which is working very well, is an insert in the side where we want the most heat (see my icon) and regular glass doors on the other side, which we can open/close depending on how much heat we want off the back of the stove to circulate in the dining room.

Haha definitely a true statement in a wood powered air conditioner!

I don’t think I completely follow your solution. A wood insert one side (probably the living room) then I could keep the class doors that are in the photos on the dinning side?

Is the insert a closed fire box like a stove? Or does the open side (without the insert) need to be blocked off.

Thank you for the help!

 

[Jamiefell]

Approaching from a heating perspective how many square feet are wanting to heat. Are the ceilings vaulted any where? Supplemental heat? Night weekends? 24/7?

Budget??

I have probably around 1500 square feet of living area. Has vaulted ceilings where the fireplace is currently situated.

Looking for at least supplemental heat in addition to the oil forced hot air I have. Just want to be able to have a choice.

I don’t have an unlimited budget but want to do the install right and most of all make the right decision.

Thank you!

 

[Jamiefell]

Where in PA, Jamie? You wouldn't happen to be on Lurgan Rd. in New Hope, would you? Fireplace looks awful familiar to one I sat in front of many afternoons.

The standard recommendation for these has been to close off one side with something decorative, and place an insert into the remaining side. That decorative block-off could be an old stove plate, fireplace backer plate, sheet metal painted black or with a pretty winter scene.

I’m in Easton, PA!

I definitely tossed around the idea of blocking the one side off. Is this something you have done or have any examples?

Thank you!

 

[danham]

Haha definitely a true statement in a wood powered air conditioner!

I don’t think I completely follow your solution. A wood insert one side (probably the living room) then I could keep the class doors that are in the photos on the dinning side?

Is the insert a closed fire box like a stove? Or does the open side (without the insert) need to be blocked off.

Thank you for the help!

Have a look at this thread: #11

Yes, the glass doors on the dining room side hide the somewhat ugly back of the stove. Even when they are open for heat, the chain link spark curtain lets air through but pretty much hides the sheet metal back panel of the stove, as the pix I linked to above show. The insert fits most of the way into the living room side in our house and it looks fine on that side.

-dan

 

[Ashful]

I’m in Easton, PA!

I definitely tossed around the idea of blocking the one side off. Is this something you have done or have any examples?

Thank you!

Various extended family have done this on past double-sided fireplaces, but unfortunately I don't have any photos.

Hey, if you have glass doors on the un-used side, you could probably just slip black painted sheet metal behind them, to hide the back side of the insert, and leave the glass doors. But I'd clear that plan with a pro (like @bholler), to be sure it's kosher. Also, you will need to be sure your fireplace doesn't preclude use of an insert.

Ah... Easton, used to pass thru there several times per week. Home of Crayola, Lafayette College, and... Weyerbacher.

 

[begreen]

There are several threads on installing an insert into a double-sided fireplace. A search on double-sided in this forum will bring up dozens of past threads. Many have examples. A good solution is to cover the backside with painted, perforated or expanded metal as a screen that still allows heat to pass.

 

[TomMcDonald]

Don't you have something like this in USA?

 

[mpaul]

I had a very similar setup with a double sided gas fireplace. The insert option spoken about here wasn’t an option, but I did put ZC unit in and closed off the back side.

 

[Kfries]

As you've discovered, double-sided fireplaces make great wood-powered air conditioners and smoke machines. Our solution, which is working very well, is an insert in the side where we want the most heat (see my icon) and regular glass doors on the other side, which we can open/close depending on how much heat we want off the back of the stove to circulate in the dining room.

I'm just about to start a new build and looking at the RSF Focus ST or Elegance 42 ST. Are you saying these modern see through are going to be that bad for heating or is this a reference to old double sided fireplaces? At this point I can easily change to a single sided design. We have natural gas so the fireplace is really mostly for show (but in an emergency it would be great not to freeze the home solid). 1400sq 1.5 story.

Thanks

 

[begreen]

I'm just about to start a new build and looking at the RSF Focus ST or Elegance 42 ST. Are you saying these modern see through are going to be that bad for heating or is this a reference to old double sided fireplaces? At this point I can easily change to a single sided design. We have natural gas so the fireplace is really mostly for show (but in an emergency it would be great not to freeze the home solid). 1400sq 1.5 story.

Thanks

Double-sided fireplaces are more for ambiance than heat. The Focus ST is not EPA-approved for this reason. It's more like a glass-door fireplace. I thought the Ambiance Elegance 42 ST fireplace single-sided, or 2-sided an option?

 

[Kfries]

Thanks, quick response! There is a Ambiance Elegance 42 see through.. I have been quoted one for purchase anyways. I cannot find it anywhere on their website or in brochures. Also been quoted on an Astra Supreme Duo which I was told is brand new, EPA 2020, 3.8 cuft firebox see through. Not up on their site yet.

 

[begreen]

I'm wondering if it is old stock or a new line? Supreme used to make a double-sided fireplace.

 

[Kfries]

I'm wondering if it is old stock or a new line? Supreme used to make a double-sided fireplace.

Interesting you make that point. He said new one is Duo and the old one is Duet. He specifically said EPA 2020 and <2g particulates. This isn't a retailer I have any relationship with, called them out of the blue and hundreds of miles from where I live.. On the written quote, the SKU for the fireplace is 38ADT-01 which is the Duet. The Duet is close, but does not meet EPA 2020.

Interestingly another retailer told me that the RSF see through stopped production "around the start of covid" and they are just starting to see them again. I am thinking that probably happened because new EPA rules came about in May 2020, not because of Covid. Now it is sold alongside the statement "The Focus ST is EPA exempt because of the burn rate, but has been certified by an independent lab to meet EPA standards with an emission rate of 7.5 g/hour."

It doesn't sound like Canadian retailers are being forced to sell EPA compliant fireplaces or they are choosing not to. <2 g particulates vs 2.2 or 3.6 doesn't honestly concern me that much if Canada is not conforming to EPA 2020 at this time but I don't really like being lied to while forking out 10-15 grand for a fireplace. Don't deliberately mislead me and also try to gain my trust on such a big purchase.

Ideally I would like a see through fireplace that does an ok job of heating the house if it had to in an emergency. The Astra duet is 100k BTU rated and I am lead to believe that so is the Ambiance 42ST. The RSF Focus ST has a bigger firebox but rated 50k btu maximum.

I found this site and signed up to get some thoughts on:
Can I achieve my goal with a see through fireplace? Reasonable heat once in a while, not heating the whole house full time with wood.
Why is the RSF rated so much differently than the Supreme options because the Focus has a nice thick 1/4" plate door and I like that versus the stamped steel of the Ambiance.

 

[begreen]

The Ambiance Elegance tested at around 25K btus in EPA testing. The 100K sounds like marketing. The RSF appears to be more conservatively rated. As noted earlier, double-sided fireplaces are not as efficient. It is very hard to achieve secondary combustion in them.
More conventional 2 siders exist. There's the Heatilator ST42A, Rais 2:1. and Accucraft models.

RAIS 2:1

This is the stove, which adds a new dimension to your home. Continuous stoves for bricking in, with doors on both sides so that you can see the fire from two rooms - from the dining room and from the sofa. Exceptionally beautiful widescreen - a design with clean lines that matches the modern...

www.rais.com

Double Sided Wood Burning Fireplaces | See Through Fireplaces

Experience the ultimate in luxury with Acucraft's double sided wood fireplaces. These see through wood fireplaces bring a warm ambiance to multiple spaces.

www.acucraft.com

 

[Ashful]

If you know how much fuel (oil, electrons, etc.) you average through your central heating to keep your house at 23C under typical winter weather, it wouldn't be terribly hard to predict your interior temperature (or more accurately in/out delta) with an average 25k BTU central source. I'm guessing you won't be keeping the place at 23C with the fireplace alone, but that is fine, if you goal is surviving a few days' outage and preventing pipes from freezing.

 

[Kfries]

If you know how much fuel (oil, electrons, etc.) you average through your central heating to keep your house at 23C under typical winter weather, it wouldn't be terribly hard to predict your interior temperature (or more accurately in/out delta) with an average 25k BTU central source. I'm guessing you won't be keeping the place at 23C with the fireplace alone, but that is fine, if you goal is surviving a few days' outage and preventing pipes from freezing.

The efficiency is the question. People in this exact thread calling double sided fireplaces air conditioners. Hence the questions. Willing to sacrifice some efficiency for the see through but not all of it!

 

[begreen]

Willing to sacrifice some efficiency for the see through but not all of it!

How much? A good EPA fireplace can be 65-70% efficient, or higher if it has a catalyst, whereas most double-sided units could be running under 50%. It's hard to be specific because double-sided units may bypass and don't require EPA testing, or marketing cherry-picks the numbers. The Rais 2:1 lists a high efficiency number of 79% but that is via European testing which differs from the EPA testing. It does at least have a baffle and basic secondary reburn technology. So does the RSF Focus ST.

 

[GrumpyDad]

How much? A good EPA fireplace can be 65-70% efficient, or higher if it has a catalyst, whereas most double-sided units could be running under 50%. It's hard to be specific because double-sided units may bypass and don't require EPA testing, or marketing cherry-picks the numbers. The Rais 2:1 lists a high efficiency number of 79% but that is via European testing which differs from the EPA testing. It does at least have a baffle and basic secondary reburn technology. So does the RSF Focus ST.

A family member has a double sided fireplace. It is literally a rack of wood burning with firebrick on the bottom and sides and open to two sides. It does a great job of pulling air through all the cracks/crevices of the his into the house, and all of the heated air to the outside. It looks great though.
In ten years, I bet it was used maybe 4 times. One time was for a 1 week power outage and it did help once they had good coals exposed but it was also a chore to keep enough wood burning in there without smoke leaking out or rolling out.

 

[EbS-P]

My two cents. If you want double sided go for gas. If you want a fire get a stove. Or even two!

We had a contractor suggest converting our masonry single sided fireplace into a gas double sided and I’m very happy we did not go that route. But if I wanted double sided that’s what I would choose.

Thinking of Constrction and sight lines unless the fireplace floor is more than 3 feet off the floor you really can’t see through. So what you really want is a fire view from both sides. But you can only be one one side at a time. I dove past a house on the way to school one cold morning and through their window I glanced a raging fireplace. Never noticed a chimney on the house before. Looked up. Still no chimney. Then realized it was a TV playing a fire video.

My point explore all your options. Double sided really really limits them.

 

[begreen]

A family member has a double sided fireplace. It is literally a rack of wood burning with firebrick on the bottom and sides and open to two sides. It does a great job of pulling air through all the cracks/crevices of the his into the house, and all of the heated air to the outside. It looks great though.
In ten years, I bet it was used maybe 4 times. One time was for a 1 week power outage and it did help once they had good coals exposed but it was also a chore to keep enough wood burning in there without smoke leaking out or rolling out.

There is a big difference between the EPA units mentioned and an open masonry double-sided fireplace.

 

[Ashful]

There is a big difference between the EPA units mentioned and an open masonry double-sided fireplace.

Yeah, for sure. We had three two-sided fireplaces in the family growing up, two being very old (1700's) and one being very new (1990's). The new one was opposing sides, as was one of the old ones, whereas the third was two adjacent-side openings (at 90 degrees to one another) placed at 45 degrees in the corner between two adjacent rooms. That new 1990's one is to what I was referring in post #3 above.

None of them heated well, and in fact the two older ones were both modified during my childhood, to become either single-sided or repurposed as a vent for a stove install. In all situations, if re-working them today, I'd likely install dueling inserts in each.