Drolet install problem

[D_Bray]

I’m finally getting around to installing the heat commander and I have a few questions. I’m installing the wall thimble and I have double wall pipe from the furnace to the thimble. I’m using 2 45’sfrom the furnace to the thimble. It then converts to triple wall class A. I can’t get the dvl adapter from the stove pipe to the thimble to fit correctly. Would I be better off using the 90’s in place of 45’s. What should I do differently? The 45’s are not giving me enough angle to be a true 90degree fit.

 

[salecker]

I would use a t and a 90.Then you can drop the bottom out of the tee to clean fly ash out of the pipe.I have about a 12" piece on the bottom of the tee for extra space for the ash.

 

[sloeffle]

I'd try to make the 45's work if you can. Can you move the furnace around some ?

Two 90's will definitely cut down on your draft. I believe there's somewhere in the book where it tells you how many 90's that you can have. @brenndatomu thoughts ?

Page 18

The use of 45° elbows is strongly recommended;
Elbow added resistance is equivalent to : a 90° elbow = 5’ (152 cm), a 45° elbow = 2.5’ (76 cm); o
Never use more than two 90° elbows.

Too late now, but I'd pass on the triple wall due to the interior pipe getting cold and causing creosote build up. Double wall is much better because there's a blanket of insulation between the exterior and interior pipes that keeps it warm. The double wall I have is "rated" for 2000F.

 

[NorMi]

Triple wall duraplus is more insulated/thicker insulation and maintains a higher flue temperature on exterior chimney pipe vs. other exterior chimney I've used from my experience. It's good stuff. This is the makeup of the layers:

.016″ 430 stainless steel outer wall or .018″ galvanized steel outer wall. .018″ aluminized steel intermediate liner. .016″ 430 stainless steel inner liner. insulated layers of ceramic blanket plus ventilated air space.

The thick ceramic insulation blanket wraps around the the interior pipe in direct contact. The air space is between the outer aluminized insulation covering and the exterior pipe.

From the photos it looks like your 45 degree angled pipe is slightly too short. You can elevate the furnace to correct for this misalignment. It would be easy to make shim material from metal bar stock or even concrete backer board. To determine the thickness of the shim needed you can temporarily elevate the furnace using wood shim wedges like those used for installing doors and windows. From the looks of it you won't have to elevate it very much to get a good alignment.

 

[sloeffle]

Triple wall duraplus is more insulated/thicker insulation and maintains a higher flue temperature on exterior chimney pipe vs. other exterior chimney I've used from my experience. It's good stuff. This is the makeup of the layers:

Hmmmmm, none of the triple wall I've seen has any kind of insulation blanket in it. Hopefully, the OP has the Duarplus triple wall that you are talking about.

 

[brenndatomu]

I agree, looks like you need to raise the furnace a bit...and I would do that over switching to 90 fittings, if at all possible. Try to use something non combustible under the furnace...hot embers can easily bounce under there.
Also agree that the triplewall was unnecessary...cost more, and takes up more room (2" larger OD), and still has the same CTC. Even though this particular product will work, doublewall is generally the preferred chimney pipe for wood burners.
And the cheaper 2 layer air cooled triplewall is the wrong product for wood burners!

 

[NorMi]

For interior chimneys I always used the double wall, but i had my exterior chimney installed like that on the most recent barn job I did with the triple wall, specifically for getting the higher flue exit temps with the epa furnace, which runs lower temps out of the furnace vs. the barrel stove the previous owner had in there. I would use double wall still on an inside chimney, but since I was running the bare pipe I switched for the triple. I ended up liking it for that outside, T supported application, which it looks like that's what they are going for here.
I used the previous owners' double wall first on the barn but I replaced it since I thought the draft and the IR temps at the exit after I first got my furnace seemed a little too low for my liking. Then once I had my more permanent indoor manometer installed later on, the draft from the 15' of the triple was a almost little too good and was running right up against needing a barometric damper.

 

[brenndatomu]

For interior chimneys I always used the double wall, but i had my exterior chimney installed like that on the most recent barn job I did with the triple wall, specifically for getting the higher flue exit temps with the epa furnace, which runs lower temps out of the furnace vs. the barrel stove the previous owner had in there. I would use double wall still on an inside chimney, but since I was running the bare pipe I switched for the triple. I ended up liking it for that outside, T supported application, which it looks like that's what they are going for here.
I used the previous owners' double wall first on the barn but I replaced it since I thought the draft and the IR temps at the exit after I first got my furnace seemed a little too low for my liking. Then once I had my more permanent indoor manometer installed later on, the draft from the 15' of the triple was a almost little too good and was running right up against needing a barometric damper.

How does the actively air cooled triplewall that you are referring to run warmer inside than passively air cooled doublewall?
I say actively air cooled because the outer layer will pull cool air up through the outer layer, whereas the doublewall would only be cooled by a passing breeze (talking exterior obviously)
And I'm still not sure the 3W Duraplus is dense pack insulated on the inner layer like doublewall is...

 

[NorMi]

Well "active" cooled is a bit of a stretch, it's ventilated but the chimney cap sits nearly flush on the top of the vents and hangs down around the outside with a gap, which cuts off most of the stacking effect that it would have if it was wide open. My exit temps went up significantly though. I went out and looked at the sections I just took down for the relocation, and the insulation between the inner and layer 2 is about 3/4" thick, and then whatever insulation value the (mostly) dead air space does between layer 2 and 3.

 

[ABMax24]

From the photos it looks like your 45 degree angled pipe is slightly too short. You can elevate the furnace to correct for this misalignment.

Exactly this, looks like the piece between the 45s is about an inch too short.

Is a slip joint allowed to be placed on a 45? This seems like the easiest solution.

 

[brenndatomu]

Exactly this, looks like the piece between the 45s is about an inch too short.

Is a slip joint allowed to be placed on a 45? This seems like the easiest solution.

That would work too...but that appears to be a solid section of pipe...a slip section is always recommended though, if for no other reason that ease of disassembly for cleaning...but, with the 45's there a SootEater should go right through the HX cleanout door and up to the chimney tee...

 

[Highbeam]

Exactly this, looks like the piece between the 45s is about an inch too short.

Is a slip joint allowed to be placed on a 45? This seems like the easiest solution.

I agree. As long as the furnace and the pipe through the wall are relatively close to parallel, both horizontalish, then it’s just a matter of getting the stove in the right place on the floor and the proper length of angled pipe between the 45s.

No need to elevate the stove.

Yes, you can put a telescopic pipe between two 45s. They bolt in like any other length of pipe.

 

[Tonty]

This kind of reminds me of the poem “The Blind Men and the Elephant.” We all have our opinions and see different things. I don’t think just a longer pipe is going to fix the problem. It looks to me like the furnace needs to go up a bit, like someone mentioned, to make the 45* true. If it goes up, it’s also going to go away from the wall a bit more. That would mean that if the furnace stays on the floor, the pipe needs to be longer, AND it needs to go away from the wall a bit.
My understanding of those furnaces is that they do not like horizontal runs on the flue pipe, so I would try to avoid the 90’s. Hot air naturally wants to go up, not sideways.

 

[brenndatomu]

It looks to me like the furnace needs to go up a bit

Without getting a different pipe, that's the only choice.

 

[Tonty]

Without getting a different pipe, that's the only choice.

Yes, sir. Although I think it would be more than the “bit” I said. The longer the pipe between the 45’s , the more it has to go up.
Hopefully it’s up and cooking by now.

 

[brenndatomu]

Hopefully it’s up and cooking by now.

Yup...hoping for an update @D_Bray

 

[Highbeam]

Basic geometry. If you’re not willing to adjust the length of the angled pipe then you must adjust the elevation and location of the furnace until the pipes connect.

So much better to use a telescopic length of pipe for ease of installation and for future maintenance.

 

[brenndatomu]

So much better to use a telescopic length of pipe for ease of installation and for future maintenance.

Yup

 

[JRHAWK9]

I'll throw this out there. If I were to do it all over again, I would have went with some good stainless stove pipe from the get-go. My 45° elbow coming out of my furnace recently got real thin, so I decided to replace it all with stainless so I don't have to worry about it again. The original stuff was not the super cheap thin crap you find at big box stores either, it was ICC/Excel stuff. If you can, I'd go with all stainless. My new 45° elbow and pipe is some good 316 SS. The tee for my BD is 304 SS.

 

[brenndatomu]

Not sure what brand OP used, but I know most of the doublewall stovepipe is SS on the inner layer...

 

[JRHAWK9]

Not sure what brand OP used, but I know most of the doublewall stovepipe is SS on the inner layer...

good point. I guess that's what I get for not reading close enough and assuming it was single wall.

 

[Highbeam]

I'll throw this out there. If I were to do it all over again, I would have went with some good stainless stove pipe from the get-go. My 45° elbow coming out of my furnace recently got real thin, so I decided to replace it all with stainless so I don't have to worry about it again. The original stuff was not the super cheap thin crap you find at big box stores either, it was ICC/Excel stuff. If you can, I'd go with all stainless. My new 45° elbow and pipe is some good 316 SS. The tee for my BD is 304 SS.

Did you use single wall stainless? Or double wall?

 

[JRHAWK9]

Did you use single wall stainless? Or double wall?

single......this is 316 here.

 

[D_Bray]

Sorry to keep you guys waiting. Here’s the deal. The pipe between the 45’s has been telescopic the whole time I guess my pics didn’t represent that very well. I finally got everything lined up correctly by adjust the bottom 45 to correct the angle and by also moving the stove further from the wall and increasing the length of the telescopic pipe. It’s been up and running for about a week or so.

 

[D_Bray]

How does the actively air cooled triplewall that you are referring to run warmer inside than passively air cooled doublewall?
I say actively air cooled because the outer layer will pull cool air up through the outer layer, whereas the doublewall would only be cooled by a passing breeze (talking exterior obviously)
And I'm still not sure the 3W Duraplus is dense pack insulated on the inner layer like doublewall is...

The Triple wall is insulated.