Ducted Pellet Stove Solution for Heating 2 Areas

[Wire12xu]

Hi Everyone,

I'm a new member; hope you all had a good Christmas and you can find some time to go over my post.

Background:
We live in Cortland county upstate NY. Winters here can get severe.
The pellet stove/s will be our primary heat source.
House has 2 levels.
Main floor 900 sq. ft. open plan, 9' ceilings, renovated, foam insulation, double glazed windows, electric baseboard heating, ceiling fans. 2 bedrooms and bathroom off the main open area. Access to the basement via stairs from open area, door at basement level
Walk-out basement 900 sq. ft., open plan, to be renovated with foam insulation, double glazing, electric baseboards. There will be a spare bedroom, shower room and laundry room.
We spend most of our time on the main floor.
We intend to use the basement as a work area (computers), gym and general crafts area.
My wife has weak wrists, so loading chunks of wood is a problem. We prefer to use pellet.

Solutions:
1. To use 2 stoves, one on the main floor and one in the basement.
This will involve maintaining 2 stoves and filling with pellet - lot of work. Plus 2 sets of exhaust piping. We have had a quote using 2 Regency stoves including venting and installation of $12k
2. 1 stove in the basement. Heat rises, cut ducts in main floor and use fans to pull the heat up.
Basement may become too hot for me to work from home in there. Main floor may not get hot enough.
3. 1 stove (ie. Harman XXV) on the main floor - which is where we spend the bulk of our time.
Use the electric baseboard heating in the basement, which could be expensive.
4. 1 stove on the main floor, which will use internal blowers and ducts to push hot air into the basement.
This is my preferred solution. One heat source... see below

Questions:
Has anyone used a pellet stove with internal blowers to push hot air via ducts into another area of their home?
From my research there are 4 brands - Piazetta, Wittus, Ekotech and Rika. Does anyone have any experience of these brands? Are there other manufacturers?
The stoves are not cheap, but are comparable in cost to using a 2 stove + venting solution. The warranties are not as extensive as say Regency and spare parts could be expensive. Any thoughts?
Why do manufacturers use Majolica cladding?
I am leaning towards the Piazetta P963M, which uses 2 internal blowers, can support ducting of 40', 66lb hopper, can provide enough heat for 1800 sq. ft. Cost of $6k - only for the stove though. We have a local (25 miles away) reliable dealer who can install as well.

I would really appreciate any feedback.
We don't have a time restraint and we'll wait until we can find the best way to heat our home.
Thanks and Happy New Year,
Mark

 

[begreen]

Welcome. Mechanical code does not allow a return air duct to be within 10 ft of the stove. Also, it is usually easier to work with nature than to fight it. Hot air wants to go up, not down. It is easier, safer and more efficient to blow cool air toward the stove room and let warm air replace the displaced cool air.

Have you considered instead a pellet furnace? This would allow you to duct heat to the upstairs while having less blow into the basement. That will keep both levels more evenly heated. Otherwise I would consider having the stove in the basement near an open stairway. Then put two large, registers to the basement, close to the outside walls on the opposite ends of the house. These should have fusible-linked dampers for fire safety. Setup correctly the outside wall registers will act as cold air returns and the stairwell, and perhaps another supply register will convect heat upstairs.

 

[Wire12xu]

Welcome. Mechanical code does not allow a return air duct to be within 10 ft of the stove. Also, it is usually easier to work with nature than to fight it. Hot air wants to go up, not down. It is easier, safer and more efficient to blow cool air toward the stove room and let warm air replace the displaced cool air.

Have you considered instead a pellet furnace? This would allow you to duct heat to the upstairs while having less blow into the basement. That will keep both levels more evenly heated. Otherwise I would consider having the stove in the basement near an open stairway. Then put two large, registers to the basement, close to the outside walls on the opposite ends of the house. These should have fusible-linked dampers for fire safety. Setup correctly the outside wall registers will act as cold air returns and the stairwell, and perhaps another supply register will convect heat upstairs.

... Thanks for the prompt reply 'begreen'.
A furnace is a great suggestion. But, we like the looking at a burning stove.. it's cozy and relaxing. We spend most of our time on the main floor, so that's where we would like to site it. Been advised that placing a stove in the basement (even by the stairs) doesn't guarantee a warm main floor.
What do you mean by ' Mechanical code does not allow a return air duct to be within 10 ft of the stove' ?

 

[Skier76]

I believe he's speaking about the return to a central unit; heat, AC or one that's a combo.

 

[papa bears stove]

Drolet, Osburn and Enerzone all make stoves that are able to run two seperate ducts up to 25 feet. The flame is visible on some of the pellet furnaces that are available.

 

[Bioburner]

Lake Girl has a dual ducted Elena Ecoteck

 

[Wire12xu]

Thanks...
No return involved on the ducting.
Used to supply hot air to the basement.

 

[chken]

Hi Everyone,

I'm a new member; hope you all had a good Christmas and you can find some time to go over my post.

Background:
We live in Cortland county upstate NY. Winters here can get severe.
The pellet stove/s will be our primary heat source.
House has 2 levels.
Main floor 900 sq. ft. open plan, 9' ceilings, renovated, foam insulation, double glazed windows, electric baseboard heating, ceiling fans. 2 bedrooms and bathroom off the main open area. Access to the basement via stairs from open area, door at basement level
Walk-out basement 900 sq. ft., open plan, to be renovated with foam insulation, double glazing, electric baseboards. There will be a spare bedroom, shower room and laundry room.
We spend most of our time on the main floor.
We intend to use the basement as a work area (computers), gym and general crafts area.
My wife has weak wrists, so loading chunks of wood is a problem. We prefer to use pellet.

Solutions:
1. To use 2 stoves, one on the main floor and one in the basement.
This will involve maintaining 2 stoves and filling with pellet - lot of work. Plus 2 sets of exhaust piping. We have had a quote using 2 Regency stoves including venting and installation of $12k
2. 1 stove in the basement. Heat rises, cut ducts in main floor and use fans to pull the heat up.
Basement may become too hot for me to work from home in there. Main floor may not get hot enough.
3. 1 stove (ie. Harman XXV) on the main floor - which is where we spend the bulk of our time.
Use the electric baseboard heating in the basement, which could be expensive.
4. 1 stove on the main floor, which will use internal blowers and ducts to push hot air into the basement.
This is my preferred solution. One heat source... see below

Questions:
Has anyone used a pellet stove with internal blowers to push hot air via ducts into another area of their home?
From my research there are 4 brands - Piazetta, Wittus, Ekotech and Rika. Does anyone have any experience of these brands? Are there other manufacturers?
The stoves are not cheap, but are comparable in cost to using a 2 stove + venting solution. The warranties are not as extensive as say Regency and spare parts could be expensive. Any thoughts?
Why do manufacturers use Majolica cladding?
I am leaning towards the Piazetta P963M, which uses 2 internal blowers, can support ducting of 40', 66lb hopper, can provide enough heat for 1800 sq. ft. Cost of $6k - only for the stove though. We have a local (25 miles away) reliable dealer who can install as well.

I would really appreciate any feedback.
We don't have a time restraint and we'll wait until we can find the best way to heat our home.
Thanks and Happy New Year,
Mark

Send Pascal Maertens a PM, private message, he may be able to give you some thoughts on the multifuoco models of Piazzetta. I would also stop in the boiler forum as anyone who is considering two stoves or ductwork should also think about a pellet boiler or furnace option. So much depends upon your layout, but the size of your floorpan does not scream to me 2 stoves.

 

[mithesaint]

I like the pellet furnace option as well. If that doesn't work for you, then I'd go with two stoves. I have a multifuel furnace in my basement, and a multifuel stove in my living area. It's nice that I don't have to rely totally on one stove, and neither stove has to work too hard. Then if one breaks, I'm not burning propane. I don't love two extra holes in the house, but those are fixable.

 

[ScotL]

If you are replacing an oil boiler with hot water baseboard heat, a pellet boiler in the basement would be ideal. That's what I use.

 

[acammer]

... but the size of your floorpan does not scream to me 2 stoves.

Agreed - 1,800sq/ft sounds very do-able with one good stove and some creative air handling. I'd also agree with everyone else, moving warm air down is really like trying to swim against the current, instead of drift with it. Solution #2 sounds like the most practical/least expensive. If ambiance and more precise temperature control are really important, than two stoves is the way to go. I too enjoy the look of the flame, but I have one simple stove in the basement doing the whole house quite nicely as it was by far the best value for doing primary heat on pellets.

 

[moey]

All I saw was $12k for a non automated heating solution. If that is in fact a realistic price you may want to have someone quote a geothermal system. We paid about $20k for ours for a house about 3000sq/ft.

 

[Lake Girl]

Enviro also has the Maxx which is a ductable stove. There is also the Maxx-M which is a multi-fuel. http://enviro.com/products/catalogue/?f=Pellet&t=FS

Ecoteck - now Ravelli - does not make the Elena Air anymore. Not sure what Ravelli has for new stove line. The dual fan does get loud, we haven't used it yet as ductable due to its location and the recommended 10' duct length. When we finally get it to its new location, it will be in area where the noise will not interfere and the duct length will be in line with recommendations. The majolica sides act as a heat sink... they do make cleaning a bit more difficult because of the strip tease required but they sure are pretty

SBI has a pellet furnace with an optional electric element as backup and A/C option - called the Alterna. It is pricey with the extras ...
(broken link removed to http://www.psg-distribution.com/product.aspx?CategoId=28&Id=542)

Try a search on the forum ... there are examples of all the stoves you mentioned ... some with pictures so you get a better idea of what you're getting. The Piazetta multi-fuco units may have different # than the one stated above.

Keep us posted! Welcome to the forum

 

[Lake Girl]

Piazetta multi-fuoco stoves - owners don't seem to be posting much... there is one P963 installed in Chile on another thread!
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/piazzetta-961.125841/#post-1695626

 

[Wire12xu]

Piazetta multi-fuoco stoves - owners don't seem to be posting much... there is one P963 installed in Chile on another thread!
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/piazzetta-961.125841/#post-1695626

Thanks 'Lake Girl'
We really like the aesthetics of the Piazetta 963M .. we're looking into the possibility of ducting into the basement, 20 ft or so.
Putting a stove in the basement might be tricky because I'll work about 25ft from it.. would this be too hot for me? Especially when the stove has to provide heat to the main floor?
Would extractor fans on the duct exit help - if the stove is on the main floor?
Would you know if the fans are noisy.. you mentioned this on your other post?
Thanks....

 

[Wire12xu]

Send Pascal Maertens a PM, private message, he may be able to give you some thoughts on the multifuoco models of Piazzetta. I would also stop in the boiler forum as anyone who is considering two stoves or ductwork should also think about a pellet boiler or furnace option. So much depends upon your layout, but the size of your floorpan does not scream to me 2 stoves.

Thanks 'chkn'
Would you know the handle for Pascal Maertens.. I can't find his ma,e on the forums when I search?

 

[Wire12xu]

Thanks 'chkn'
Would you know the handle for Pascal Maertens.. I can't find his ma,e on the forums when I search?

'chken'.. found Pascal's handle.
Cheers

 

[Hi-Standard]

Questions:
Has anyone used a pellet stove with internal blowers to push hot air via ducts into another area of their home?
From my research there are 4 brands - Piazetta, Wittus, Ekotech and Rika. Does anyone have any experience of these brands? Are there other manufacturers?
The stoves are not cheap, but are comparable in cost to using a 2 stove + venting solution. The warranties are not as extensive as say Regency and spare parts could be expensive. Any thoughts?
Why do manufacturers use Majolica cladding?
I am leaning towards the Piazetta P963M, which uses 2 internal blowers, can support ducting of 40', 66lb hopper, can provide enough heat for 1800 sq. ft. Cost of $6k - only for the stove though. We have a local (25 miles away) reliable dealer who can install as well.

I would really appreciate any feedback.
We don't have a time restraint and we'll wait until we can find the best way to heat our home.
Thanks and Happy New Year,
Mark

Wire12xu, I have a cheap Timber Ridge model 55-SHP10 pellet stove made by England Stove works. I used to have a Drolet wood stove in my basement. In order to get heat to my main floor with the wood stove, I installed a grate in my dining room floor just over the wood stove, and it worked great since wood stoves radiate heat upwards. However, when I removed the wood stove and installed the pellet stove in the basement, due to the existing flu I could tap into without cutting another hole in my house, I couldn't get any warm air up to the next level. My pellet stove blows all of its hot air out through the front like most pellet stoves do. My solution was to go to a tin smith and have him fabricate a collector, for lack of a better term, that just fits over the vents of my pellet stoves convection blower. This "collector" is connected to a 4" aluminium dryer vent hose and is vented directly into my existing grate in my dining room floor. My home has three levels about 600 sq/ft each. The basement gets heated by the radiant heat from the stove to 25 to 28 degrees celsius, while the main floor is about the same heat from the forced air of the pellet stoves convection blower. Upstairs, the bedrooms are about 20 degrees. The stove with the ducting on it looks as ugly as hell but it works, and we spend very little time in the basement anyway. When I want to see a nice flame, I turn on my electric fireplace without the heat while I watch tv. Currently it's -2C outside and my living room is 25C. My dining room is at 28C and my pellet stove is set at heat setting 3(it goes up to 9) while the blower speed is set at 9.

 

[Wire12xu]

Wire12xu, I have a cheap Timber Ridge model 55-SHP10 pellet stove made by England Stove works. I used to have a Drolet wood stove in my basement. In order to get heat to my main floor with the wood stove, I installed a grate in my dining room floor just over the wood stove, and it worked great since wood stoves radiate heat upwards. However, when I removed the wood stove and installed the pellet stove in the basement, due to the existing flu I could tap into without cutting another hole in my house, I couldn't get any warm air up to the next level. My pellet stove blows all of its hot air out through the front like most pellet stoves do. My solution was to go to a tin smith and have him fabricate a collector, for lack of a better term, that just fits over the vents of my pellet stoves convection blower. This "collector" is connected to a 4" aluminium dryer vent hose and is vented directly into my existing grate in my dining room floor. My home has three levels about 600 sq/ft each. The basement gets heated by the radiant heat from the stove to 25 to 28 degrees celsius, while the main floor is about the same heat from the forced air of the pellet stoves convection blower. Upstairs, the bedrooms are about 20 degrees. The stove with the ducting on it looks as ugly as hell but it works, and we spend very little time in the basement anyway. When I want to see a nice flame, I turn on my electric fireplace without the heat while I watch tv. Currently it's -2C outside and my living room is 25C. My dining room is at 28C and my pellet stove is set at heat setting 3(it goes up to 9) while the blower speed is set at 9.

Hi Hi-Standard,
That's impressive. I like the lateral thinking.. smart.
We really want to see the stove flame and snuggle up near it.
Spend most/all of our time on the main floor, so putting the stove in the basement involves re-configuring the home (not out of the question though)
Plus, I'll need to work from home in the basement, heat of 25 - 28 celsius might be tricky.
All the same, appreciate the reply.

 

[Lake Girl]

Thanks 'Lake Girl'
We really like the aesthetics of the Piazetta 963M .. we're looking into the possibility of ducting into the basement, 20 ft or so.
Putting a stove in the basement might be tricky because I'll work about 25ft from it.. would this be too hot for me? Especially when the stove has to provide heat to the main floor?
Would extractor fans on the duct exit help - if the stove is on the main floor?
Would you know if the fans are noisy.. you mentioned this on your other post?
Thanks....

Probably best to have that chat with Pascal ... tried to find a youtube to determine loudness w/o luck.

 

[Hi-Standard]

Hi Hi-Standard,
That's impressive. I like the lateral thinking.. smart.
We really want to see the stove flame and snuggle up near it.
Spend most/all of our time on the main floor, so putting the stove in the basement involves re-configuring the home (not out of the question though)
Plus, I'll need to work from home in the basement, heat of 25 - 28 celsius might be tricky.
All the same, appreciate the reply.

25-28C is a little warm for most folks, but my wife is from Ontario where the summers get pretty hot so if she was in hell she'd ask the devil to turn up the thermostat another degree. In the meantime, the reason for my post was just to let you know that ducting into another room is no big deal, and with regards to heat, just turn her down. Temperature went down to -5C last night and I left the stove on heat setting 1, basically just smouldering, and I woke up this morning to a very comfortable 22C living room. You could put your stove on the main floor if you like to see the fire, duct a little heat in the basement and use a ceiling fan in the basement to force the heat down. Also I discovered that Drolet makes a pellet stove designed specifically for ducting at a cost of about $2600. Puts out about 65000 BTU's. I believe the model number is ECO-65.

 

[bogieb]

Agreed - 1,800sq/ft sounds very do-able with one good stove and some creative air handling. I'd also agree with everyone else, moving warm air down is really like trying to swim against the current, instead of drift with it. Solution #2 sounds like the most practical/least expensive. If ambiance and more precise temperature control are really important, than two stoves is the way to go. I too enjoy the look of the flame, but I have one simple stove in the basement doing the whole house quite nicely as it was by far the best value for doing primary heat on pellets.

One really never knows how the heat will act (regardless of whether heat rises or not). I have 950 s/f main floor and about 550 s/f unfinished basement. Originally I was going to go with two smaller stoves, but let myself be talked into a Harman P61A. The Harman should easily heat that area plus some (don't get me wrong - I love the Harman).

I found in my house that heat does not rise. I have cut holes in the floors, placed fans going up, down, sideways and angled thru the stairs (tried both up and down), and managed to get the basement in the high 80's, the living room in the high 60's (except in really cold weather) and the bedrooms, well the bedrooms would be in the 50's or 40's depending on outside temp and wind. I slept in my living room all winter and still had to run the propane boiler to ensure that the FHW pipes to the bedrooms didn't freeze.

Now, the bedrooms are over the garage, which stays about 10 degrees warmer than the outside. All that cold air infiltrates the floor, cooling the rooms off immensely. Over the summer I did add insulation to both the garage ceiling (and re-sheet rocked the ceiling) and demolished the exterior walls to add insulation, vapor barrier and thicker rock (from 1/4 to 1/2). Shortly before Thanksgiving, I added a used smaller stove (St. Croix Hastings) to my living room. It is a nice looking stove, and I love watching the flames, and it is wholly capable of heating the main floor by itself if needed.

So far I have been letting the Harman do the heavy lifting; running in room temp mode (72-75 degrees) 24/7. The Hastings is now run with a thermostat and runs non-continuously thru the night (I think it runs a total of 4 hours between two firings) and may not fire at all during the day between the Harman and sun helping to warm the place. Of course we haven't had any really cold weather yet, However, the Harman isn't working nearly as hard, the upstairs is warmer (bedrooms are 69-72 with living room at 75-78), and it seems as though I am going thru less pellets than I did late last spring when I was using just the Harman. Next spring (shoulder season) I may just let the Harman rest and let the Hastings heat the upstairs only.

Keep in mind that my upstairs is not open concept. But, I thought I would share my experience with heat not rising nearly as much as all the experts I talked to expected. In fact, what I find, is that heat rises to meet heat much better than it rises to replace cold air. If I had done the two stoves to begin with, I would have had a much warmer winter last year (and my total $$ outlay would have been less as I could have gone with a smaller Harman). One last thought if you do go the 2 stove route - you may want to do the Harman downstairs as I have done. My experience so far has said that the downstairs stove does more work because some of the heat does rise. So, I am happy that I have a very easy stove to take care of down there. I would really hate it if I had the stoves reversed as the Hastings would require maintenance every day, where as the Harman requires only pellets and a swift scrape of the burn pot.

 

[bogieb]

Hi Everyone,

Solutions:
1. To use 2 stoves, one on the main floor and one in the basement.
This will involve maintaining 2 stoves and filling with pellet - lot of work. Plus 2 sets of exhaust piping. We have had a quote using 2 Regency stoves including venting and installation of $12k

Mark

I think you will find that maintaining two stoves is not necessarily twice the work of maintaining 1 stove. You should actually use a little less pellet-wise (neither stove works as hard), so the maintenance is spread out over more time (if use of one stove would mean weekly deep maintenance, the two stoves may make that every 10-14 days). Sure the actual stove cleaning time will be x2, but the daily maintenance and pellet feeding may not be on a linear scale. And if you can get a hopper extension for at least one of the stoves (like I have for the Harman), then the pellet feeding interval is extended and you can load up enough to last for 30-48 hours versus loading for 13-24.

Not trying to talk you out of ducted stove (which may be the best way for your needs and situation), just giving you my experience.

 

[Tim_M]

Wire12xu, I have a cheap Timber Ridge model 55-SHP10 pellet stove made by England Stove works. I used to have a Drolet wood stove in my basement. In order to get heat to my main floor with the wood stove, I installed a grate in my dining room floor just over the wood stove, and it worked great since wood stoves radiate heat upwards. However, when I removed the wood stove and installed the pellet stove in the basement, due to the existing flu I could tap into without cutting another hole in my house, I couldn't get any warm air up to the next level. My pellet stove blows all of its hot air out through the front like most pellet stoves do. My solution was to go to a tin smith and have him fabricate a collector, for lack of a better term, that just fits over the vents of my pellet stoves convection blower. This "collector" is connected to a 4" aluminium dryer vent hose and is vented directly into my existing grate in my dining room floor. My home has three levels about 600 sq/ft each. The basement gets heated by the radiant heat from the stove to 25 to 28 degrees celsius, while the main floor is about the same heat from the forced air of the pellet stoves convection blower. Upstairs, the bedrooms are about 20 degrees. The stove with the ducting on it looks as ugly as hell but it works, and we spend very little time in the basement anyway. When I want to see a nice flame, I turn on my electric fireplace without the heat while I watch tv. Currently it's -2C outside and my living room is 25C. My dining room is at 28C and my pellet stove is set at heat setting 3(it goes up to 9) while the blower speed is set at 9.

My situation is very similar to what Hi-Standard describes. I have 2 stoves - basement and main floor - but get by running just my basement stove down to about -2 C ( depending on wind, etc). I distribute the heat from my basement stove by way of 2 dryer ducts ( see pic). It's not pretty but it's fairly effective. The duct on the left side directs heat to a basement bedroom thru a vent cut out in a side wall, and is adjustable by sliding the stove-end of the duct to capture more or less of the air coming from that side of the stove. The one on the right directs heat to my living room on the main level thru a vent in the ceiling. This year I installed a small 4" duct-booster fan in the duct on the right side, which helps a bit in getting more air to the main level.

This set-up works well on my Invincible with its 2 smallish air outlets, one one either side. It would be more difficult to configure on a lot of stoves that just have one large outlet.

 

[Arti]

I run a pellet Furnace in the basement to heat the house to 70 degrees F. I have a small pellet Stove in the parlor to keep that a few degrees warmer, also like to watch the fire at night. On warmer days I burn the parlor stove only. Both are on thermostat's I've found that doing it this way we really don't use much more fuel a little more time spent cleaning, like the idea that if something goes wrong with a pellet burner we have a backup.
Oddly enough we have had a couple of different stoves in the parlor and the heat distribution is different although they sit in the same place?