DuraLiner and Englander 32-NC Install

[Hexa Fox]

Hey guys,

So I know I made a post similar to this but I just bought DuraLiner for my chimney and the Englander 32-NC wood stove and hopefully they will be here in a couple weeks. So if you look at the picture I posted the lowest point part of the install is going to be the tee that goes inside the thimble where you see the orange bucket now. Now long story short that is going to leave the entire liner install hanging above the cleanout pan you see at the bottom.

So this brings me to my question. Can I fill this small 3' tall section with something like pebble stone or lava rock so that the tee sits on top of the rock supporting the weight instead of it free hanging? I have been told before that it is made to just hang in your chimney only secured from the cap but this would be a cheap and easy peace of mind. I would love to hear some thoughts and opinions. Maybe even an alternative you guys have used or can think of, I have thought about using the firebrick from the old stove to achieve the same thing if I can fit it in this cleanout pan. I know that water, heat and stone can let dangerous stuff happen. I have heard of stone exploding under conditions like these. I really do not want anything like that happening inside of my chimney.

Also general advice about the Duraliner or Englander 32-NC would be appreciated as well. There is not much information available on it and would love to hear from someone who actually installed it themselves. As always thanks for any help in advance.

 

[begreen]

Extend the bottom of the top tee with an additional 3 ft of liner and connect that to a bottom tee which is capped on its bottom and snout. Then you can use the lower tee as a cleanout.

 

[Hexa Fox]

Thanks for coming to my aid as always begreen. I don't know why I did not think of this. However, I would have to know exactly how much I needed and make sure it fits. There is very little space in that cleanout pan. It would also be expensive but honestly is a really good idea.

So you are saying I would take the round, face side cap off?

 

[Hexa Fox]

I took a couple pictures of my ash cleanout pan and it is cramped to say the least. You have a great idea but I do not think it is going to work for me. The measuring tape is to try to give some kind of idea of what I am dealing with. It is very uneven in there.

 

[begreen]

It might work, careful measuring will tell. If the Tee ends up an inch or two high then a brick could be put under the bottom. Or the cleanout door could be replaced with a taller one or relocated a bit higher.

 

[brenndatomu]

I extended my tee down to the cleanout with another piece of flex, then have the bottom capped off, with a brick under the cap holding it up on the liner...not a ton of room I know, but it can be done.

 

[Hexa Fox]

I extended my tee down to the cleanout with another piece of flex, then have the bottom capped off, with a brick under the cap holding it up on the liner...not a ton of room I know, but it can be done.

Thanks for both of your responses. I'm guessing you did this all at once? As in you did not go back a year later and pull all the crap up to add it? I already have my stuff ordered and have already cut myself short if I want my new setup up and running this year. I have been using a space heater and electric baseboard heat. I started almost on the first new billing day of my electric bill, so there is going to be a whole month of heating with the electric baseboard heat and space heater. I am honestly curious to see what it is going to be.

We have already had a couple of nights below freezing and tonight it is suppose to get down into the low 20's. Says it is 33 out there now. Probably going to leave the utility closet doors open and the space heater on.

Anyway, I was told to expect very little buildup with this setup and I could just go with cleaning it once a year. I know this probably varies but in reality does extending the tee (or an additional tee) down to the cleanout help? I guess it might make it safer if you get more building that you thought and it can fall down below the 'usable' part of your liner. Anyway I planned to take something like this perforated sheet metal and bend it into an "L" shape, drop it down into my cleanout and then fill it with some kind of rock from the bags you can by at a hardware store. Is this a bad idea?

Amazon product ASIN B09TRHT39B

 

[brenndatomu]

I'm guessing you did this all at once?

Yes, planned from the get go.
A simple brick or block works fine to hold the cap on...no need to buy anything fancy

 

[Hexa Fox]

Yes, planned from the get go.
A simple brick or block works fine to hold the cap on...no need to buy anything fancy

So there has been a pretty surprising update. I ordered all this stuff from woodstovepro.com on Friday and it is getting here tomorrow. I thought it would be at least two weeks with the holidays. I just went ahead and left stove pipe completely out of it and figured I would measure and then buy the stuff locally or offline. I will post an update after I receive and install this stuff but so far Sean from woodstovepro.com has been amazing. I won't say more than that right now because well I have not even received the stuff yet. Having that said he spent literal hours on the phone with me explaining the DuraLiner line of products and how they work.

The only disappointment so far is the customer service over at DuraLiner/ DuraVent. I was very displeased with the way they handled my inquiry and they still have not gotten back to me and it has been about a week. I was so discouraged I almost backed out all together, but Sean got into touch with his supplier (that already bought the DuraVent products I believe) and they got me an answer fast. I understand that a salesman should be knowledgeable about a product they are selling but it is sad when a seller has a better understanding of a product than the corporate office of the actual product in question. What I was originally told by DuraVent via email was also incorrect.

Anyway this is the tee I should be getting tomorrow, looks like a quality product from the picture. I also took these pictures from the local hardware store and is what I was referring to earlier. I think I am going to try to drop some kind of bent sheet metal down my chimney and then fill that 3' or so section with one of these rock products. Again unless someone believes this is a bad idea or there is another way to do it. Right now I do not want to worry about taking a second measurement and making certain it is perfect to connect additional pipe and a tee for a cleanout.

Again I will make another post but if anyone comes along this is the tee you are suppose to receive from DuraVent. Whether you need round to round or round to oval should not matter either. The branch is removable with the two screws/bolts you see.

 

[begreen]

Sean has helped many a hearth.com customer. He's one of the good ones.

 

[Hexa Fox]

Sean has helped many a hearth.com customer. He's one of the good ones.

I wasn't sure how much I could say but he is a truly awesome person. If it is permitted I will mention him again after I get this install done. Maybe even next year so I can at least give my initial thoughts and pictures. Anyway I highly recommend him, he went out of his way for me several times and had not in anyway guaranteed that I would buy off him. He and this community have been an awesome help. I have honestly talked to him over the phone countless times while he has taken the time to explain everything to me.

 

[begreen]

No problem, I've recommended people ask for him in the past.

 

[Hexa Fox]

No problem, I've recommended people ask for him in the past.

I noticed you have not said anything about the pebble stone in the cleanout. Do you think it is bad idea to use it as support for the DuraLiner install?

 

[Hexa Fox]

So now that I have some of these products in my hands I definitely cannot see installing this system while letting it free hang in my chimney. I just weighed the oval tee loose fitted to a 4' (48") section and it is saying just under 14 pounds. It feels heavier than that but could just be that it is awkward. Anyway, I think I am definitely going to plan to fill the chimney cleanout section with some kind of landscape rock that the tee will sit on top of for support.

 

[Hexa Fox]

Hope it is okay if I tag you guys but got around to tying a rope to the tee and sliding it down the chimney. This is what it looks like and was hoping for thoughts? @begreen and @brenndatomu

You can clearly see that there is not much of the opening visible. It also eliminates the possibility of putting bricks under it to raise it up if I need a couple extra inches to line up the other tee with the thimble access hole. Keep in mine this is about 3' back too so the most that I could get in there is a vacuum hose to suck out the buildup from the bottom of the tee.

I was trying to take a rough measurement to figure out what I would need to connect it together because it needs to be perfect for me to maintain access through my thimble. I estimate that you lose about 2' off each piece of liner when connected.

 

[begreen]

Hope it is okay if I tag you guys but got around to tying a rope to the tee and sliding it down the chimney. This is what it looks like and was hoping for thoughts? @begreen and @brenndatomu

You can clearly see that there is not much of the opening visible. It also eliminates the possibility of putting bricks under it to raise it up if I need a couple extra inches to line up the other tee with the thimble access hole. Keep in mine this is about 3' back too so the most that I could get in there is a vacuum hose to suck out the buildup from the bottom of the tee.

View attachment 320137

Is this with the tee sitting directly on the floor of the cleanout or is there a pile of crud at the bottom? If this is as low as it can go then the cleanout opening would need to be enlarged to align the tee snout with the cleanout hole.

View attachment 320138

Can more of that glaze be removed? Maybe I am being over cautious. @bholler, what do you think?

 

[Hexa Fox]

Is this with the tee sitting directly on the floor of the cleanout or is there a pile of crud at the bottom? If this is as low as it can go then the cleanout opening would need to be enlarged to align the tee snout with the cleanout hole.


Can more of that glaze be removed? Maybe I am being over cautious. @bholler, what do you think?

So I thoroughly cleaned the entire chimney just a week ago with the old school hard wire brush. I cleaned out this part well and vacuumed anything loose. I also stuck my hand in there and moved the tee around and even though it is obviously not perfectly flat there was no significant difference. So to answer your question no, it will not go any lower.

As far as the glaze goes there is very little access to this location. I thought about putting some paint stripper/thinner on a rag or something and wrapping it around a telescoping pole but it could make it more dangerous and may not do anything. To take the picture I had to fully extend my arm and use the voice control on my phone.

 

[brenndatomu]

Keep in mine this is about 3' back too

I guess I didn't realize that the flue was so far back in there like that...seems kinda odd to me.
Yeah I think I'd wave the white flag at this point and just put it together without the cleanout leg.

 

[Hexa Fox]

I guess I didn't realize that the flue was so far back in there like that...seems kinda odd to me.
Yeah I think I'd wave the white flag at this point and just put it together without the cleanout leg.

How about an alternative like pebble stone to fill just that portion?

 

[brenndatomu]

How about an alternative like pebble stone to fill just that portion?

Its not needed, but I guess I don't see what harm it would do either. On mine if I could not have made the cleanout leg work, I would have just let it hang, as designed.

 

[Hexa Fox]

Its not needed, but I guess I don't see what harm it would do either. On mine if I could not have made the cleanout leg work, I would have just let it hang, as designed.

It bothers me something fierce. The tee to the top of the chimney crown is approximately 17'.

 

[brenndatomu]

It bothers me something fierce. The tee to the top of the chimney crown is approximately 17'.

That's not a tall chimney...now if we were talking about an 8" heavy wall liner, with insulation, and twice that height, now there is some weight hanging there...

 

[moresnow]

Sooo? Under the T at your thimble, you still will cap the bottom of the liner correct? Even if it's capped just below the connection? At least it can be accessed there with a shop vac for removing cleaning residue.
Whats this stone/pebbles talk all about? Confused.

 

[Crab]

FWIW....I installed Olympia Armor heavy flex liner(.016) with insulation. It is not what you are installing. Perhaps your installation instructions will tell you if your liner should be or recommended to be supported at the bottom. The Armor Flex installation instructions are below, it recommends support . My cleanout is 3' +/- below the thimble. I chose not to extend. Instead with the help of my St. Neighbor we fabricated an adjustable pedestal that supports the tee accurately at the thimble.

Of course, if my liner had been extended to the cleanout floor that would have provided support for the upper tee. I did consider putting bricks in the flue from the cleanout up to where the tee would sit on it. I clean from the top, the 2 cups +/- of dust I sweep out gets vacuumed out of the tee bottom easily vacuuming thru the thimble/tee snout.

d) Once the bottom of the liner or bottom connector is at its desired position, trim the top of the liner to 4”(102mm) above the crown. (For ArmorFlex/Hybrid LinerTM installations, it is recommended that the tee be secured and supported within the chimney. For Forever Flex™ / Pre-Insulated Forever Flex™,this is especially necessary in the case of long lengths of liner exceeding 35 feet (10.6m). This can be accomplished using angle iron.)

 

[Hexa Fox]

Sooo? Under the T at your thimble, you still will cap the bottom of the liner correct? Even if it's capped just below the connection? At least it can be accessed there with a shop vac for removing cleaning residue.
Whats this stone/pebbles talk all about? Confused.

So since adding an additional tee and piece of pipe is not feasible for me I would replace just the cleanout with some kind of pebble stone or landscape stone in general. I was thinking of bending a piece of perforated metal into an "L" shape first so the stone does not escape out of the vertical cleanout. Then when the tee comes down to the thimble the idea is it will sit on top of the stone.

Instead with the help of my St. Neighbor we fabricated an adjustable pedestal that supports the tee accurately at the thimble.

I thought about something like this. I have a cheap cargo bar that is all metal except the ends are rubber. It looks very similar to this pole you have here. So this is something you fabricated together? I have been looking on Amazon for some time and see plenty of things that could work. The only problem is that probably like yours the adjustment part needs to be eyeballed before putting it down the chimney. Then I guess I could get even more rope and lower the tee down to sit on it and see if it is where I want it.

So honestly I have not read the entire manual yet but I know the DuraLiner product I have is designed to only be supported at the chimney cap. I just really want to do this for piece of mind more than anything. So I was very interested in these from Amazon. They cost about $100 which is good money spent if it works for me. The problem is the tallest one I can find is 29". I could easily lay a couple bricks on the lower part of it to hold it down and even bolt a rectangular shaped piece of metal to the top for the tee to sit on.