Duratech Pipe and Support box temps

p301 Posted By p301, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:29 AM

  1. Sodbuster

    Sodbuster
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Sep 22, 2012
    632
    205
    Loc:
    Michigan

    The tile makes a protected surface as I already meet all clearances to combustibles, and is right on the wall over a layer of Durock. The hatch idea is something I'll need to look into, I like the concept. Don't second guess yourself on the install cost. the stove will pay that back over and over, and i bet if you hired someone to do the whole job it would have been $$$$ especially with the copper, and I doubt it would have been as good of a job. Stove is a Pacific Energy Summit.
     
  2. Chimney Smoke

    Chimney Smoke
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 24, 2013
    536
    174
    Loc:
    Maine
    That does seem quite warm. I have double wall stove pipe going into a through the wall class A tee. My double wall exterior temp is around 200 before the tee and the tee itself at the wall penetration usually stays around 170. Those temps are measured with a laser with a flue temp of around 500.
     
  3. p301

    p301
    New Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 1, 2016
    84
    1
    Loc:
    NJ
    I didnt realize there were more replies to this my email only tells for the first reply. Ill have to look into the settings to see how to change that.

    Chimneysmoke it does seem high to me too its only high like that though when the dual wall is running like 220 on the outside i need to get aprobe thermometer but ive noticed those temps are near the bottom of that support box up at ceiling height it gets to just about 200. Duratec told me that it is within the range of normal temps . I dont know what else i could do and not get the same results but i sure would like it if those temps were 50 or 60 degrees cooler
     
  4. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    68,624
    9,695
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    The stove has been going for several days. Stove top is currently 550F. The temp on the double-wall stove pipe just before the ceiling support is 141F. Temp on the support collar right before the trim ring is 116F.
     
  5. p301

    p301
    New Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 1, 2016
    84
    1
    Loc:
    NJ
    Begreen thats a straight installation with dvl to duratec pipe just like mine right? What do you think i should do? Duratec, and the people i boght the stove from and the guy that installed it all seem to think its fine. Personally I think it seems too. Again that temp is with the stove top temp pushing past 650 and air wide open right before i turn it down. The dvl is in the 220s when i get that reading what do you guys think i should do?
     
  6. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    68,624
    9,695
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Yes, straight up DVL to Duratech with a round ceiling support box. Checked just now. Stove top temp 690F, flue gas temp (probe) 560F, DVL temp just before the support 162F, support collar right before the trim ring 122F. Fire has been burning after a reload 2hrs and 15 min ago, the air was turned down almost all the way.

    If you are checking with the air wide open the flue gas temp could be very high, exceeding 900 or 1000F. In that case I would expect the reading on the surface of the DVL and support box collar to be higher. But don't do that, it's a waste of fuel and pushing the limits of continuous temp operation for the DVL.
     
  7. p301

    p301
    New Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 1, 2016
    84
    1
    Loc:
    NJ
    Hmm ok so my plan is to get a probe thermometer. Which do you reccommend? Then i am going to make a chart every 10 minnutes of the stove top temp dvl at mid point temp at the bottom of the ceiling support box and temp at trim of ceiling support box and post it to see what you guys think. I do want to state that the difference between the bottom part of the support box and the top where it meets the trim is about 50 degrees difference and when its running real hot is like 210 the lower portion gets the hottest where the dvl and ceiling support meet thats where i get the 260 readings
     
  8. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    68,624
    9,695
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Condar probe is what we have.
     
  9. p301

    p301
    New Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 1, 2016
    84
    1
    Loc:
    NJ
  10. p301

    p301
    New Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 1, 2016
    84
    1
    Loc:
    NJ
    Today i started a real slow fire i was careful not to leave the bypass open too long or the door open too long. I ran the stovetop open till it got to about 600 then turned it down. The left side of my support box at the bottom what ill call ring was at about 210 the right was almost 250 up near the trim piece it was much cooler around 200. When i turned the air down the temperatures at the support box dropped but the stove didnt cool down much. Could i be running the stove wrong? Should i turn it down sooner? I get my probe thermometer tomorrow so maybe that will tell the story?
     
  11. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    68,624
    9,695
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Yes, turning down the air creates a stronger vacuum in the firebox. This pulls air through the secondary manifold and achieves more complete combustion in the stove instead of sending hot unburnt gases up the chimney. Try turning down the air sooner and farther. Turn it down until the flames get lazy, but not out. Wait 5-10 minutes until the fire regains strength, then turn down the air again until the flames get lazy.

    A probe thermometer will help you see what's happening. Pay close attention to the installation instructions as there are two size holes being drilled.
     
  12. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 3, 2006
    8,430
    1,862
    Loc:
    Next to nuke plant Berwick, PA.
    Cutting air back at 600 is way too late. Try 400ish, then adjust as needed
     
  13. p301

    p301
    New Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 1, 2016
    84
    1
    Loc:
    NJ
    Wow 400 ive been getting it up to 600 or 650 thrn turning it down to where i want it. That was always the way i learned get it real hot burn off the volitales and then dampen it low for the long slow burn. Have i been doing it wrong or is that just how u burn non cat stoves? If i want my stove at 650 on a cold night and i dampen it at 400 how to i get it back up? If burn it hot the secondaries work better. Do i need to worry about creosote turning it down at 400? Im in a learning process here with these new stoves
     
  14. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    68,624
    9,695
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    The stove top temp will rise as secondary combustion starts and heats up the firebox with more complete combustion. The temps I posted earlier are with the stove's air almost all the way closed. Right now you are sending a ton of heat up the flue. Creosote should not be an issue if the wood is well seasoned and the fire is not allowed to smolder. Once you get the probe thermometer let that be your primary guide and try to keep flue temps below the 600-700F range or even less once the stove is cruising with the air mostly closed.
     
  15. p301

    p301
    New Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 1, 2016
    84
    1
    Loc:
    NJ
    Thanks begreen i saw that about the different holes. How high off the stove top is yours mounted?
     
  16. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    68,624
    9,695
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    About 20"
     
  17. p301

    p301
    New Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 1, 2016
    84
    1
    Loc:
    NJ
    The flu probe told the story i must have been running it too hot in the beginning this time i let my flu temps build to about 700 when i stated the stove this gave me a stove temp of 525 and a lower ring support box temp of 192 and 154 at the trim collar. I closed the air till flames got lazy about 3/4 closed and stove temp built to 550 with a flue temp of 575 support box temps of 177 at bottom ring and 149 at trim. Stove temp is still climbing faster than flu. The ash im burning is not seasoned too well so ive heen tryung to keep it on the hotter side. I ordered a soot eater and will use that over the weekend to see whats built up in the past month.
     
  18. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    68,624
    9,695
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    That sounds much better. Try starting to turn down the air with the flue temp at 600F next time. As the weather gets colder you will be able to close the air more, maybe even all the way closed on some days. You'll have to experiment. As long as the fire doesn't start smoking and smoldering it should be ok.
     
  19. p301

    p301
    New Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 1, 2016
    84
    1
    Loc:
    NJ
    Great thanks for all the advice. What do you think is the minimum flu temp i should try to maintain where i should start turning it up again? Should there be visible smoke from chimney with the air turned down and stove running at say 450?
     
  20. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    68,624
    9,695
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    You shouldn't need to open up the air again unless the fire is smoldering. Once the fire is at the coaling stage you don't need to be concerned about flue temps. There will be no creosote producing gases coming off the coals at that point. Only open up the air a bit if you are trying to burn down a large coal bed.

    This morning I did a test and started turning down the air at 400º flue temp. I cut it down 50%. Flames died down a little, but secondary combustion started. After 15 minutes the flue temp was up to 450º and fire was burning robustly again. I turned it down another 50% to 1/4 open. Let it burn for another 10 minutes and then closed it down another 50% to 1/8 open. Stove top temp continued to climb. I just checked it an hour later and the stove top is at 690º and the flue temp is 500º.

    Your results may vary depending on the wood species and dryness, the draft strength and the stove.
     
  21. p301

    p301
    New Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 1, 2016
    84
    1
    Loc:
    NJ
    IMG_5903.JPG Thanks begreen. I feel better about the temps now with the probe. Since i put the probe in it seems like i cannot turn the fire down as much with the air conrol. I was very careful putting the probe in and it fit tightly i used the two size bits they asked for is it possible air is coming in and making a stronger draft. Ive had the air closed for a half hour and still have a strong fire going and a flu temp of 600. All i can think of is that its the flue probe? Here is a picture of my fire with the air closed for A half hour
     
  22. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    68,624
    9,695
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    The probe has nothing to do with the physical control of the fire. Your stove and flue are different from ours. Your reading is probably fine. It looks like there is robust secondary combustion happening.

    There have been times when our flue temp read 600F after closing down the air. This could be due to the wood but most likely it was because I just got distracted and didn't turn down the air soon enough. Keep experimenting with closing down the air, increments, sooner and at a lower flue temp. Don't snuff out the fire, but go by visuals as much as by flue temp.
     
  23. p301

    p301
    New Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 1, 2016
    84
    1
    Loc:
    NJ
    Thanks begreen honestly i dont know what id do without this site! So that is a normal condition if you let the fire get too hot and then turn it down it will stay like that? I just went through a full load of wood in 2.5 hours with the air closed all the way. I just got in from plowing snow all day and my wife had some questionable smoldering going on when i got in so i figured id burn it hot for a while and then turn it down. Im my airtight stove i can put the fire out if i want by closing the air all the way. Is there anyway to get the air control tighter so i can cut more air off. Door gasket seems tight
     
  24. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    68,624
    9,695
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    I would not modify the stove this year. Go through a season and get used to the burning process with an EPA stove. It is different than with an old stove, but with practice you will get reproducible and predictable results. Get used to turning down the fire sooner and burning less wood if the temps outside are milder. By the end of the month you will be much more confident. By the end of March it will be routine.

    If it's any consolation, most of us went through this relearning process at some point.

    PS: Just a check, the bypass is being closed after the fire has started, correct?
     
  25. p301

    p301
    New Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 1, 2016
    84
    1
    Loc:
    NJ
    ok will do you havent given me bad advice yet!
     

Share This Page