EKO 60, DIY Install???

[strmh]

Well, I've been looking at my EKO 60 for a few months now and it's still not up and running.

I built a 60' X 40' shop with an attached boiler room with the intention of heating shop (radiant) and home (baseboard) with EKO which is around 200' from house.

Been waiting for the installer and I'm reaching the point where I'm tempted to try it myself............I've reviewed several diagrams, but still haven't got my head around the whole thing.

I'm not a boilerman, but I do everything else myself (plumbing, framing, electric, etc....) can a "do-it-your-selfer" hook one of these things up?

Thanks...

 

[sdrobertson]

Absolutely you can. Just take it slow and read up on all the great threads here. I'm certainly not a boiler man either but with a little help and some head scratching you can do it. Just remember safety first. The one thing I would recommend is draw a diagram on what you want the system to do and then fill in the parts that you'll need to accomplish it.

 

[Medman]

After doing it myself, I don't think it's a problem. Just read a lot of the info here, find a plumbing diagram that works for you, and ask lots of questions. After that, its as simple as buying the parts and assembling. (Not really simple, but not hard either).
For what its worth, I am not a plumber/electrician/tradesman. I didn't want to do all of the install, but anyone I called was either too busy or too important to take on a small residential job like mine. In the end, I did everything but the trenching for Pex lines myself, and I am very satisfied with a job well done.

It depends on your skill, confidence, and time - it took me three months of evenings, weekends, and days off work to get it all done.

 

[stee6043]

Quit waiting, save a bunch of money and just go for it! I'm finishing up the final plumbing on my EKO 40 this week. Hope to have fire this weekend. Black pipe is a lot more time consuming than I had imagined it would be. Other than that it's been quite enjoyable. I thought I was a week away from fire 3 weeks ago! ha. For me the two 500 gallon propane tanks I am using for storage has presented the most time consuming part of the install. Plumbing the tanks in series, with bypass, gauges, dip tubes, shut offs, expansion tanks, pumps, etc takes a lot of fittings. Fittings=time.

Anything is possible with enough patience and an account with grainger.com. If you like DIY projects I think you should definitely consider this one. Once you get going on it you will realize it's not as complicated as it seems on the front end. I, like you, try to do most things myself. Built my deck, finished my basement, etc etc. Go for it. You'll likely get more satisfaction from it if you do it yourself. And save a load of money...

 

[Duetech]

I think the plumber will show up just about 1 day before you are done. (Don't pay him just give him some advice) Let us know how it goes...Stay warm

 

[Dave T]

Buy good quality fitings and use couplings often enough to retighten any fitings just in case you have leaks, don't be scared even with brass parts to put a three foot pipe on your pipe wrenches for leverage..Assemble the system in sections one coupler to another at a vise, I had to run to Ho Mo Depot often to get pipe of various sizes (HD will custom size and thread pipe for you down to 8" so do not spend the extra money on large nipples).. PFTE thread tape fills thread gaps better than pipe dope, take into consideration tappings(or tees) for temp gauges in supply,return,and any other pipes close to boiler. More tees for small air separator tops, fresh water in and anything else you want to put in to the system..It all starts with a plan that will fit your space and what you need the boiler to do...Good luck ASK QUESTIONS AND DO MANY SEARCHES ON THIS SITE, YES YOU CAN DO IT YOURSELF WITH A LITTLE HELP Dave

 

[Eric Johnson]

Heck, I make my living behind a desk and all I know about plumbing, heating and wiring, I learned by doing. Hooking up the EKO 60 was no problem. Of course, it took a long, long, long time to get it done, but if you think things through and come to this place for help, I don't see where it would be a problem. And BTW, one of the main reasons I learned to do this stuff (aside from being cheap), is that I got sick of waiting for guys in vans to show up at my house.

 

[cvanhat]

yes its a do it yourself project. i did an eko 60 this fall. just read the info on here and ask a lot of questions when you get stuck on something. good luck

 

[strmh]

I really appreciate the input.......I think I'll just go for it.

Be forewarned though, I will probably be posting more than my fair share of questions

 

[Tony H]

Go for it , it will take a little time and if your using black pipe a little help from the guys at the plumbing supply house but the effort is worth it to say I installed it myself. I did almost all of the work on mine with some plumbing and install of the heat exchanger and furnace controlls by a pro. The advice from the folks here was a huge help and I would probably still be working on it now without their assistance.

 

[Dave T]

Ok I'll just throw some stuff out there for you to think about at random.. Make a plan, position and LEVEL the boiler, trench(below frost line here in NY it is just over 3'),fresh water supply, large diameter oxygenbarrier pex Shark bite type or similar HEAVY INSULATION,mixing valve,many temp pressure gauges,shut off valves isolation is very important,spiro vent or similar air separator,small air separator tops in high spots,expansion tank,all valves and fittings should be full port,boiler drain in strategic locations where water is no issue 30 psi relief valve at boiler,gravity over heat loop,give freeze protection a thought,possible battery backup, Thats what came off the top of my head maybe it will help you draw up a rough sketch of what you want to achieve...Dave

 

[strmh]

Thanks Dave....that's exactly the info/advice I need.

I've got 210' of 1 1/4" Thermopex 4' deep, so I'm hoping that will suffuce

Even though the boiler is in the shop, I won't need a fresh water supply out there will I? This will tie in with my existing oil boiler and I can feed the water from that system, right??

One of the things I've been trying to determine is the size of my main circulator pump.....still reading posts on that one. Don't know enough yet to ask the right questions, but when I was planning the install with the EKO dealer, I believe I was told that a Taco 010 would be the most efficient way to go......any help there would be great.

Again, thanks to all who have chimed in.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Your makeup water can and should be in the basement. If you tie into your existing system, that's all you need. Make sure your expansion tank can handle the extra volume.

 

[Dave T]

I have no experience with 3 speed pumps but that will be the way I go when I need to shop for one, a 3 speed pump will allow you to speed up or slow down flow, also saving energy and perfect for the DIYers like us, the cheapest I've heard of is on E bay but if time is of the essence that may not be a good place to buy (but shop E bay and you can learn a lot about the products you are considering) 200' is a long run you may have to step into a higher head pump..Check the Taco site they have a chart (Taco Raidiant Made Easy Application Guide) its not what I call easy but it will do the trick...Dave

 

[trehugr]

strmh,

how far north is north ? Now that Im done with my install......

 

[mwk1000]

I just brought my EKO 60 up this weekend and I am just like many of the other posters here. Never done boiler work before but other plumbing,electrical, carpentry is not a problem. I am one day old with heat to the house and I don't want to know what thhe labor cost for my sytem would have been. Certainly thousands of dollars.

I think a sticky for all us newbees would be a nice idea. The list of what NOT to do would be a great sanity check for anyone staring one of these. Perhaps a Good Idea list and a bad Idea list ? I certainly had a few redo's in this project but it is pretty slick heating for free ( well my labor for wood I did anyway feeding my fireplace for much less benefit.

I say this because most of us don't know what we don't know so searching is nice ( and time consuming ) but a lifesaver none the less. Some kind of checklist might help others see potential problems before they start and save time money and rework. From my own install I had to redo each of these:

1) Black pipe, Paste leaked even after I took great pains to make sure each joint was well applied and tightened. Disassembled it all , cleaned it all off and used Teflon tape. No leaks and no need to over tighten. Use an air compressor and soapy water and a few end caps AS YOU BUILD so you know its good before you fill it or bury that joint behind 10 others.

2) Don't use extruded polystyrene directly against the host tank water. I never even though this was an issue until I found this site. More rework to retrofit polyisocyanurate ?? ( Yellow ) in the inside walls.

3) As others has noted, Make sure you have boiler fittings to drain and fill and easily purge the air. I added hose bibs and I hand a 5 gallon bucket on one end of the line while the other is hooked to the hose to purge all the air.

4) Building codes to watch out for. Boiler in garage prohibited. Height from floor, walls.

Just thinking out loud

 

[rickh1001]

strmh,

Like the others, I would say you can do the job. It took me about 2 months to get my EKO 60 completed, but that was working mostly only weekends and a few evenings. A week of more or less full time effort would have had everything done.

The biggest hurdle I had was deciding on the details. Each of these projects is unique, so there are an infinite number of ways to tackle each problem. Without having done one before, I would get lost trying to figure out exactly how to do this or that. Usually I would just sit and stare for a while, trying to figure out how a section of piping would actually look, etc. I found just seeing pictures of how other people accomplished the plumbing was an enormous help.

It turns out there are a lot of details that I didn't think of ahead of time, but tackled as I was working on different sections of the plumbing. For example, in the return line to the bottom of the storage tank. I added shutoff valves to each return line going into the larger 1 1/2 copper manifold, that had to be constructed. I put boiler drain valves ahead of each, so for purging, I just shut off the zone valve and open the boiler drain, to purge each zone separately. Likewise, I added a valve at the boiler supply on the 1 1/2 iron pipe, along with a boiler drain and another shutoff valve, so I can close the main valve and open the purge valve, and flush all the air from the system. It is thinking through all these little plumbing details that drove me crazy. Once you have done one though, it is all easy, and that is probably the only difference between a professional plumber and us (except their solder joints probably look better!).

The other thing I did that turned out to be really useful was the liberal application of unions. I tried to anticipate making mistakes in each section of plumbing, and added unions and shut off valves, so if I had a leak or a problem, I could easily isolate that section and modify it, without have to drain the entire system. It was more expensive for the added unions and valves, but it was worth it. Now, when I add on another storage tank next spring, I can just shut off the valves and isolate the existing tank, and add into its piping, without draining much of anything. I used pipe dope/tape/dope on all the black iron joints and (knock on wood!) I didn't have a single leak. I had a good pipe vise, and spent some of my savings on buying an 1 1/2" threader and large pipe cutter. It might have been just as cheap to go to HD or Lowes and let them cut and thread it, but I like having the tools for future projects. I did manage to mess up a few of the sweated copper joints running to the various zones, and had to cut and re-solder some of those. Keeping the zones isolated and putting unions in strategic places, let me repair those without too much draining.

I will try to take some pictures of my system and post them. Look through the archives, as there are photos of other systems installed. One look at a system similar to yours, makes the entire project 100% easier. As for choosing correct circulator pumps, etc. you can usually find help from the plumbing supply companies, or from the manufacturers. I emailed Taco several times with my system, and they responded quickly, suggesting the correct circulators to use. They are an excellent resource for excellent technical advice, and they didn't mind at all that I was a rank amateur.

I had a quote from a local guy for just over $6,000 to do the job. When done, I spent about $2,800 on the piping, circulators, etc. It was more than just the money though. I got tired of waiting, and now that it is done, I understand the system completely, and feel really comfortable improving it in the future. Like anything, it is a lot more time and work to do it yourself, but if you have the time, it will come out ok and is worth it.

 

[Dave T]

Download the manual from New Horizons, they have a few semi detailed piping layouts that may help you, and other information about your boiler you will want to know before and during your install.. I estimate I spent close to $1500.00 on my piping and components to tie into the existing zones materials only, and the EKO is in my basement with all 1 1/2 black pipe and fittings again don't go with cheap China fittings or inferior components, when all done and I had no leaks I filled the boiler all the way with no pressure then drained 2 gallons of water and replaced that water with 8 way boiler chemical that took more guess work out of it for me, when your ready figure all of the boiler systems volume including pipes..Have fun with it and good luck..Dave

 

[strmh]

To all who have responded,

Thanks so much for the advice, suggestions, and lessons learned.

I've really been intimitated by this portion of my overall project, but after hearing from everyone, I think it's woth a shot.

Again, thanks.

TH

 

[timberr]

Do it! I have been working on my system fir 6 weeks now. I am replacing my Oil with a EKO 25, 500 gal.s of storage, a Munchkin Contender propane boiler for backup and a Supertore indirect water heater. Propane was hooked up today, it is heating water! The secondary loop is finished, most of the wiring is done The oil tank and boiler are out Saturday AM, and with any luck by early next week I will be burning wood.

I am not a plumber but I slept at a Holiday Inn once... Actually I am a forester and the dealer I bought my EKO from has been fantastic with advice, drawings and pictures. The tech who fired up the Munchkin today said that this would have been a $20-25K project if I had hired a professional. He was impressed with the work. Sounds like you are handy do why not, it only takes time.

Good Luck, and you are in the right place for advice.

 

[rickh1001]

strmh,

I have attached some pictures of my system to help you out. I hope you appreciate them, as they were painful! It has taken me 2 days to figure out how to get these little critters down to manageable size and posted.

Since this installation is in the basement of our converted barn/house, originally I didn't insulate the tank at all. However, I found I was losing too much heat to the basement, so I just draped some 4" insulation over the tank. It worked like a charm, and I add or remove bats to control the cellar temp, which in turn heat the floors of the upstairs rooms. In a remote installation like yours, you will obviously need to insulate the tank better. Note I put the circulator on the supply side, ala Holohan and Siegenthaler. I have had no problems with it, but for the low head of the primary, it could probably be mounted on the return where everyone else likes to mount it.

The presence of the storage tank also changes some things. For example, any air returning from the zones will never make it to the air scoop, but will reside in the tank. Note I put an air vent at the top of the 1 1/2" black iron supply - but when first starting up, I still have air occasionally locking up one of the zone circulators. Since the primary circulator runs more or less continuously, any air in the tank that tries to escape up the supply pipe is being pushed out to the zone manifold. I intend to install a cheap air scoop on the pipe supplying the copper manifold for the zones, to intercept any air coming up out of the tank. The Spirotherm is still good though, as it efficiently de-oxygenates the water over time. Actually, once I got the initial air out of the system, and quit having to fix a few leaks in the copper zone piping, I have had not problems at all with air.

Hope this helps. Again, once I saw a few pictures of systems, I could start to relate them to the actual pipe I had to cut, etc. Also, close you eyes to the wiring - no conduit for me! I just hope our local building inspector isn't on the list.

 

[strmh]

Boilerman,

Your efforts in loading the pics are not in vain.........exactly what I'm looking for........actually, I'm hoping you've mastered it (in case I dare to ask for others in the future!)

Still studying the whole thing.........

Much appreciated.

 

[Dave T]

Nice lookin install Boilerman and let me say you have the best lighting over top of the EKO I've seen yet, good to hear your happy with it Thanks for sharing your pics, it was worth the hastle for others to get a visual and more ideas on system layout..Dave

 

[taxidermist]

Boilerman,

What is your honeywell aquastat on the tank pipe controlling? They included it with my setup and I cant figure what I want it to control.


Rob

 

[rickh1001]

taxidermist,

This is one of those unplanned things I hadn't thought of, but realized I needed after I got the system together.

I am using plenum HX's in the three existing hot air furnaces in two home, with 3 separate thermostats (actually 6 altogether - 3 originals for the oil furnaces, and now 3 additional ones mounted alongside each for the EKO). The oil stats are set at 50F or so, just to keep everything from freezing if I can't keep the wood going. If the EKO went cold, the three zone circulators would be circulating cold water through the plenum HX's. If the oil burners kicked in, all I would be doing is trying to reverse heat the storage tank. So I put the aquastat on the storage tank pipe. That aquastat controls the power to the Taco 4 zone controller, so if the tank goes below temp, it cuts off the power to all the zone circulators. The primary circulator on the EKO is on a different circuit, so it is free to run. I also put in a small 4 circuit panel box. This is bring all the the boiler and furnace wiring to a central point, to make it easy to add back up power at some point (or my solar cells and battery bank coming up next summer!).