Ekoster 2 Questions

[Blennophobic]

System is a EKO 40 with 800gal unpressurized storage.

I'm finding on cold startup, the fan will shut off after a while before the system has a chance to get up to temp... typically 60degC or so.

Trying to figure out the Polglish manual is a challenge, and it only gives a hint as to why this might be happening.

It describes "dt" as: "temperatures' difference at the beginning of working, that is on what temperature's difference from the one setted by the regulator will turn into STOP or START (10C - 30C) ex. dt=20, temperature setted = 70C after temperature's decreasing to 50C (temperature decreased of setted "dt" parameter from boiler setted temperature) regulator holds on for 30 minutes to burn out the rest of the fuel, after the fan turns off signalling in the same time fuel shortage with STOP diode".

Well the latter part I understand, and set my dt as recommended in the manual for using storage, to the lowest setting of 10C. This is so it's not wasting heat from the storage by circulating after the fire has burned down. I've only noticed this problem after reducing my dt from the default of 15.

So, the question is, does this affect the startup time somehow?
When first turned on, the Ekoster 2 displays 3.6... which doesn't seem to be adjustable... what does that mean?
My settings are:
Setpoint = 80C
HI = 2 (dead band for setpoint)
Po = 65C (pump turning on temp)
dt = 10 (as described above)
|T| = 5 (fan power - out of 10)

Thanks.

B. - I think I'm starting to speak Polglish now after spending so much time trying to understand the manual!

 

[julien]

US importer have english version.

http://www.newhorizoncorp.com/PDF/RK-2001UA-ENG1.pdf

http://www.newhorizoncorp.com/eko.php

 

[Fred61]

I have the ekoster 2 on my unit. I haven't had to play with it since last year so I might be of little or no help. Each time I needed to make adjustments to it, I had to spend about 5 evenings going over the manual then laying it down and picking it up and go over it again to get my head wrapped around what was being said. Believe it or not, I had it pretty much figured out, but that was last year.
I think what you're seeing is the result of the START TIMER. When you first press the start button the unit runs and the START LED is illuminated If the boiler temp does not reach I think? 70C in a given amount of time it shuts down and must be re-started. Once the boiler reaches 70? the start light goes out and shut down will not take place.
This has not occurred for me this year because I have split my wood smaller and I'm letting the fire burn hotter before starting gassification mode so the boiler gets up to temperature in the allotted amount of time. Whatever it is.

 

[Blennophobic]

I agree, it is the start timer. Reading between the lines in the manual, it is also related to the dt setting. So the lower I set my dt to benefit my storage, the harder it is to reach the the set temperature minus dt setting at start-up, within the fixed amount of time allotted by the controller. But why isn't this start-up time adjustable?. Reading the info on the RK-2001 controller, I see it has adjustable start-up time. It ticks me off that the Ekoster2 apparently doesn't have this feature because that seems to be what is causing me problems. I thought the Ekoster 2 was supposed to be the newer controller. Does anybody know where I can get an RK-2001 and how much they are?
Thanks.

 

[cguida]

Just this morning I had the eko-60 manual out and was trying to answer the same questions. That crazy syntax doesn't help. But in fairness to the Olanski people, we have to admit that they speak English alot better than most of us speak Polish. And hey -- we're still in the Latin alphabet, so it can't be that bad.

First, the numbers that come up when you first turn on the controller -- I think these are the software version number. Mine reads 3.4

"dt' -- dt is the "Operating Threshold" -- the difference between what you set the boiler at (e.g. 80C), and when the controller program starts running and making decisions. dt is one of the 4 things you can actually specify. (The other three are Hysteresis, Pump turn on temperature, and Fan Speed.) I sent mine to 10 dec C. So if I make a fire and turn the controller on and do nothing else, the controller program should start to run (turn the fans on) when the boiler temperature crosses the 70 deg mark (80deg-10deg dt). If it doesn't get to the threashold within the specified time, then I guess the fans never come on. (Does anybody know what this time period is? Far as I know, there is no way to fiddle with this parameter on this controller. However, one could fiddle with dt instead....) Anyway... once the boiler temperature crosses the Operating Threshold, something else happens on the way down as the boiler cools. In that case, says the manual, the controller keeps the fans going for a half hour to burn up any remaining fuel, and then shuts itself down.

It's not that complicated, but this is the 3rd or 4th time I've gone over this part of the manual. There will probably be a 5th time.... Meanwhile, although I probably haven't helped you any, just writing this all out helps me.

New Horizons said an American Controller (2001UA) costs 160 bucks. Does anyone have any experience with the remote control? Seems like a handy item to keep track of the boiler from the livingroom.

For people using Ekostar 2 controllers -- how do you handle the 220vAC problem? Step up transformer, or a 220 line from the fusebox? Surge protection? 220v UPS? 220v Timer? When I think of this other stuff (which is probably alot cheaper in 110v versions), a step up transformer looks better and better.

How many people are out there who have Ekostar 2 220v controllers, but would like to have 2001UA 110v USA controllers? Would it be possible to get together and order 10 or 20 of them?

 

[Blennophobic]

Hey Smee, I'd be up for a group buy to save a few bucks.... thanks for the price info.

My Ekoster2 controller apparently is somewhat Americanized because it is rated 115V 60Hz. If I had a 220V controller I think I'd run it off a double-pole breaker in the electrical panel.

Your description of how dt works is a lot more understandable than mine, but there's still something that I don't get, or follow the design logic of. At start-up, you turn the controller on and the fan starts when it crosses 70C? Don't you need the fan on to get the temp up to 70C in the first place? Or maybe I'm doing it all wrong... maybe we're supposed to let the fire burn with the chimney flapper open until the internal temp gets up to or close to the threshold?

My problem may not go away even if I do it that way. That's because the return temp from storage can be at 40-50C for extended periods, which could pull the boiler temp back down under the threshold of 70C once the controller is enabled. If it isn't gasifying great, the fan might still shut down on the timer. I think I want a RK-2001.

BTW: I'm humbled by your comment that the Orlan people speak English a lot better that we speak Polish, so true. My Mom is Polish and spoke it regularly until she left home in her late teens. She can't speak hardly a word of it now!

B.

Just thought of something else... maybe the pump threshold should be set to 70C to coincide with the dt setting? I think that might just fix it! Got something to try when I fire it tonight.

 

[cguida]

That bit about the program/fan etc coming on when the boiler temperature crosses the Operating Threshold (e.g. boiler set for 80C; dt 10deg; program start 70C).... that's only if you just start a fire and walk away (as I understand it). You can always force the program to start, at say 60C, by pressing the start button which turns the fans on. In fact, I think that is the more normal sequence of events. (Only don't be like me and forget to close the by-pass).

I should point out here that I have all of 2 weeks experience, so maybe I shouldn't be talking so much.

It sounds like the problem might be less a controller issue, and more a kind of plumbing issue. Do you have a laddomat or something similar between the boiler and the tank -- some way to temper the water coming into the boiler? That should make for a slow, smooth 'thermal engagement' with the rest of the system, right? That way the boiler can get up to temperature and stay that way as it gradually connects with the rest of the heat load.... at least as I understand it.

This might be a good winter to learn some Polish.

"Uwaga" !!
Smee

 

[Blennophobic]

Yes, Uwaga indeed:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/szczur/7284607/

I have a Danfoss 3-way thermostatic bypass (60C), but unfortunately, the thermal engagement isn't as smooth as I had hoped. The Danfoss valve cycles back and forth way too much when the return from storage is cool. It needs some damping to smooth it out.

I suspect changing the pump start threshold to 70C will mostly cure the problem. Will report back later.

B.

edit: changed 60F to 60C

 

[cguida]

Wondering off topic...
Did you read the comments on the UWaga link? Hilarious. The guy was trying to take nice, thoughtful pictures, and this afterthought turns out to his most popular shot by far. "I Quit!", he says. Sounds like a good sport none the less.

 

[Blennophobic]

Yes, it sure did stir up a lot of interest.

I just found out I can't change the Po (pump start temp) on my controller :-(

Why the heck would they lock that down at 65C? The manual says it's adjustable from 35C to 70C.

I wonder if anyone here knows how to reflash these controllers.

 

[Fred61]

I'm not controlling my circulator(s) with the boiler control (anymore). I'm using a a Techmar 156 differential controller which also manages my storage.
http://www.tekmarcontrols.com/literature/acrobat/d156.pdf

 

[Blennophobic]

That's a nice controller Fred. I wish I had the time to tinker with that kind of stuff. Just trying to make mine work as it should for now.

To all:

Has anybody got information on how to update/modify firmware in the EKO controllers?

 

[cguida]

Thisd is not a firmware update. But about the inability to adjust the pump turn-on temperature.....
If you are sure that there really is no way to adjust it, you could always put a strap-oon aquastat on the top pipe of the boiler and control the pump that way. That's what I'm going to do, since my pump is 120vac, and the controller voltage is 220.