Electric truck showdown

[begreen]

Out of Spec just uploaded a tow test video with an F150 Lightning, Cybertruck, Silverado EV, and Rivian R1T. All were towing uhaul car trailers with a Model 3. They added weights to make each trailer/car equal. They drove ~500 miles from Denver, Colorado to Grand Junction, Colorado and back to Denver. In the test, they went over the Rocky Mountains twice.

Silverado EV - 1st. 1 Stop. 1.3mi/kwh
R1T - 2nd. 4 Stops. ~1.3mi/kwh*
F150 - 3rd. 4 Stops. ~1.3mi/kwh*
Cybertruck - 4th. 5 Stops. ~1.3mi/kwh*

The Silverado made the 500 mile drive over the Rockies twice with only one charging stop! A big battery really makes the difference. The single stop for the Silverado was about what an ICE version would do. The others had to stop 4 times (the Cybertruck likely could have made 4 stops work). The Silverado finished about 4 hours ahead of the rest. The Silverado EV looks to be the truck to beat and could be a practical tow vehicle. It should be noted that the Cybertruck was hampered by a design flaw that force the driver to use an L2 charger at one stop. It sounds like the adapter to use the Electrify America CCS charger won't clear the charger port on the CT.

Note this is a 2+ hr video:

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Shorter podcast review here:

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[EbS-P]

Why charge a Telsa at EA???? My take away is the mileage is all the same. Buy the biggest battery you can afford. Dont charge your Tesla at EA stations.

How many Silverado EV have been sold? I’m not convinced the currently available version will go into mass production.

 

[stoveliker]

Why charge a Telsa at EA???? My take away is the mileage is all the same. Buy the biggest battery you can afford. Dont charge your Tesla at EA stations.

How many Silverado EV have been sold? I’m not convinced the currently available version will go into mass production.

Maybe that one was closest to "empty battery point"? (Maybe charging points out there are far farther apart than on the coast...)
To compare trucks it's useful to not have to charge when you're only halfway empty but to go as empty as possible to minimize stops.

 

[EbS-P]

It’s not like they didn’t have options.

 

[EbS-P]

Silverado 200kwh. That’s a huge battery. Super fast charging is the future. Not giant batteries. Once the Tesla semi infrastructure is in place with its gigawatt charging towing with an EV might make sense.

 

[stoveliker]

I'd say towing with the Silverado already makes sense. No more stops than with an ICE is precisely the reference frame for what folks think makes sense.

If they can prevent more tire wear, I'd be okay with big batteries over more frequent stops with quick charges. (I already don't like the female half of our household needing bathroom breaks 2 to 3 times as often as I do when we're driving to TN...)

 

[peakbagger]

I was pushing my friend to hold off for the Silverado but he bought the Lightning.

 

[ABMax24]

Silverado 200kwh. That’s a huge battery. Super fast charging is the future. Not giant batteries. Once the Tesla semi infrastructure is in place with its gigawatt charging towing with an EV might make sense.

For towing you need a big battery, there's just such high loses in trying to pull that much power from a 100kwh battery.

1 stop vs 4 or 5 is a huge difference in battery discharge efficiency.

I think you'll see OEMs sell multiple sizes of battery packs in the pickups, much like you see them sell multiple engine configurations now.

 

[woodgeek]

Now GM just has to make and sell Silverados at scale.

 

[begreen]

Why charge a Telsa at EA???? My take away is the mileage is all the same. Buy the biggest battery you can afford. Dont charge your Tesla at EA stations.

How many Silverado EV have been sold? I’m not convinced the currently available version will go into mass production.

That was the best charge point on the route for many. The Tesla driver may have erred in judgement. Easier to say in hindsight.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I agree that chargers should be a greater priority than big batteries. Most people don’t tow, especially trailers that heavy.

I think that Silverado equaled what my Ram 1500 would do. 10mpg towing is about what I’d expect. My old v10 F250 would have gotten the same.

I wonder how much the increased battery weight affects vehicle ratings. I’d assume they want to keep it under 10,000lbs. I’m not sure what the engine replacement with associated motor and large battery would do to the payload. It’s possible to make the truck bed, well, useless if the vehicle creeps up too close to 10k lbs.

 

[EbS-P]

For towing you need a big battery, there's just such high loses in trying to pull that much power from a 100kwh battery.

1 stop vs 4 or 5 is a huge difference in battery discharge efficiency.

I think you'll see OEMs sell multiple sizes of battery packs in the pickups, much like you see them sell multiple engine configurations now.

They all have the same mileage. 1.3 kWh/mile But the 500 miles trip only took the Silverado one stop so 385 kWh. That means they had to utilize 96%of the 200 kWh battery. If you had a 350kw charger will the bigger battery charge faster (miles/minute) than the smaller ones? I think it would but I haven’t seen any charge curves for GMs huge packs.

The cost of a 200kwh pack for the extra range for the average vacationer just won’t be worth it. If you’re towing regularly maybe. But then why a BEV? They have proven a point it’s possible. Point was proven when the model X came out in 2016 and could tow 5000 pounds 100 miles on a charge. Now we just make the trucks and trailers bigger and stuff bigger batteries in. Tesla semi has electric towing figured out.

Fast charging is here. Battery tech needs to catch up. If one could sustain more than 200kw to 80% charge ICEs are goners.

 

[begreen]

Meanwhile, batteries and charging systems for the big boys are getting a lot more robust.

Charge an electric truck in 30 minutes: Kempower rolls out 1.2 MW charging station

Finnish company launches 1.2MW charging station capable of charging a semi truck in just 30 minutes. It's the latest in a series of blistering technology breakthroughs.

thedriven.io

 

[begreen]

Stumbled on this hilarious review tonight.

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[EatenByLimestone]

Gotta admit, the carrot peeler was a great idea!

 

[begreen]

Gotta admit, the carrot peeler was a great idea!

Chaps are advised for the driver and passengers.

 

[xman23]

I know they want us all driving these things. But these are all experimental design vehicles. I'm waiting for the 5th generation, and prices to be 1/2 of what they are.
I'm on may 2ed Prius. It's bullet proof and 60MPG. Actually I just tried to buy the latest generation and they are all sold out.

 

[woodgeek]

I know they want us all driving these things. But these are all experimental design vehicles. I'm waiting for the 5th generation, and prices to be 1/2 of what they are.
I'm on may 2ed Prius. It's bullet proof and 60MPG. Actually I just tried to buy the latest generation and they are all sold out.

In what way are they 'experimental'? BEV drivetrains and battery packs have been in the field in the US for 14 years.

Also, not clear who 'they' are. Consumers? Car Makers? And the 'all' there is loaded. I'm an EV fan, and I doubt EV pickups will reach 50% of that segment before early 2030s, until a decade from now. You've got a lot of time to warm up to them.

They are all being built at scale, even Cyber is being built at 1000/week. I went from never seeing CT to seeing it weekly in the last month. What happened? They've sold over 10k units in just the last few months.

If you mean they are the first generation/release of their designs, then we agree.

Also, we agree they should be half the price. I'd expect to see that before 2030.

 

[stoveliker]

So I'm in the Netherlands for a few weeks.
Quite a few Tesla's on the road. Not more than on Long Island.
At least half as many polestar cars as Tesla's.
And a few Lynk &Co cars. I thought they were a leasing company (and couldn't figure out the brand if the cars ..) but it's a brand.
Byd dealers too. (But so many cars I am not used to seeing that I didn't spot them yet on the road - been paying attention to the smaller roads, and less space being given by other cars....)

Many electric vehicles tho - as judged from the a set of exhausts and muffler boxes.

 

[woodgeek]

So I'm in the Netherlands for a few weeks.
Quite a few Tesla's on the road. Not more than on Long Island.
At least half as many polestar cars as Tesla's.
And a few Lynk &Co cars. I thought they were a leasing company (and couldn't figure out the brand if the cars ..) but it's a brand.
Byd dealers too. (But so many cars I am not used to seeing that I didn't spot them yet on the road - been paying attention to the smaller roads, and less space being given by other cars....)

Many electric vehicles tho - as judged from the a set of exhausts and muffler boxes.

Googling suggests Holland hit 37% EV penetration in the last year, about on par with California (32%). And well above the average rate in the US (about 9%, lower ex-california).

 

[stoveliker]

Is that 37% of new cars or 37 of cars on the road? I think it's more like 15% on the road (1 in 6) from what I see.

(And I'm not in Holland, but in The Netherlands - there is a difference )

 

[woodgeek]

Is that 37% of new cars or 37 of cars on the road? I think it's more like 15% on the road (1 in 6) from what I see.

(And I'm not in Holland, but in The Netherlands - there is a difference )

I sit corrected.

37% of new cars sold in the last year. 15% of the fleet seems like a stretch (nationwide), but we could suppose the newer cars are driven more, or there's a local variation where you are (as in Long Island and my area Philly Metro).

 

[begreen]

China is approaching 50% of registered cars being EV or PHEV.

https://insideevs.com/news/725732/china-plugin-car-sales-may2024/

 

[xman23]

In what way are they 'experimental'? BEV drivetrains and battery packs have been in the field in the US for 14 years.

Also, not clear who 'they' are. Consumers? Car Makers? And the 'all' there is loaded. I'm an EV fan, and I doubt EV pickups will reach 50% of that segment before early 2030s, until a decade from now. You've got a lot of time to warm up to them.

They are all being built at scale, even Cyber is being built at 1000/week. I went from never seeing CT to seeing it weekly in the last month. What happened? They've sold over 10k units in just the last few months.

If you mean they are the first generation/release of their designs, then we agree.

Also, we agree they should be half the price. I'd expect to see that before 2030.

Sorry for not being clear. "They" , the government mandates to be all electric. Being a R&D guy, the product is at its best when we are finished and moving on to something else. It's very early in this game. I to am a fan of the technology. I work with the same VVVF motor drive systems used in these cars. Electric cars are very simple and far less labor to build than the ICE cars. So they will be a success. The major issue now is the battery life, weight and cost. I could be wrong but so far I don't think there is a cost effective battery repair or replacement. That said I have repaired my Prius battery. But it's built to do this.

Like I said I'll wait a bit before jumping in.

 

[EbS-P]

Ford had a good thing with the hybrid Maverick. I don’t see many. The hybrid Taco will sell well but…. It’s not an efficient hub implementation. It’s a power supplement.

There will a renewed interest in smaller BEV trucks. I think the Taco is even too big to be an efficient BEV.

The e sprinter can do 180 miles at 70 mph 113kwh battery. It’s only like 200hp (or something close). The eTransit is in that ballpark. The Lightning moving forward is not going to sell well. Americans must embrace smaller vehicles. Only way I see that is a steep fuel tax. Maybe a displacement tax. Anything over 3.5L gets say $1.5k per L sales tax anytime title is transferred.

I would not ever buy the first generation of anything that came out ICe or BEV. With Tesla it’s really hard to know when they made changes. I assume CTs will got or will be getting new DU versions soon.