Electrical help

[frankinri]

I have a shed with a 4 wire 220 outlet. This is only used to connect a generator to power the house when we are down. Can I wire 2 110v outlets and a light off of this 220v run? Can anyone tell me where to find a wiring diagram for this (just the first 110v outlet)

 

[dmmoss51]

The short answer is yes. I am sure there is a much longer answer and some things that would need to be done a certain way to meet codes.

In your 4-conductor 220 outlet you have two hots, a nuetral and a ground. One hot a neutral and a ground is used for the 110.

What I might do is add a box near the existing box and run a 2 conductor (3 counting ground) wire to the existing box and making the connections.

Again, not sure about code etc but it would work.

 

[Dune]

The safe way to do this is to install as small a circuit panel as you can find, maybe 8 breakers. Now you can get 110 or 220 easily and safely.

 

[ironpony]

as stated above, use the 220 as a feed to a small panel in the shed. Also I hope you are not using it to back feed the house with the generator, that is very unsafe and illegal. Please add an interlock or transfer switch.

 

[Dave A.]

Not sure what the objective is here, but my understanding is if that is a true generator outlet (male) and is wired properly with an interlock or a transfer switch, it is only connected when the line power is down.

 

[greg13]

Not sure what the objective is here, but my understanding is if that is a true generator outlet (male) and is wired properly with an interlock or a transfer switch, it is only connected when the line power is down.

Down or disconnected? There is a big difference. As I said in another thread, I used to work the storms when I work for the tree company. I watched a lineman get knocked when he grabbed a line that had both ends on the ground, a house with a generator was connected in the middle.

Greg

 

[Dave A.]

Down or disconnected?

Disconnected. Good point.

 

[KB007]

+1 - that sounds a lot like you're back feeding - which is illegal and very dangerous. Do you have some kind f switching at the panel end to ensure you're not sending 220 from your generator back into the utility lines? Pictures and/or a schematic would help too.

Plus, if you use that same wire to run other branch circuits, those are likely going to be energized when you run the generator - this could also be very unsafe, depending on just how it's done.

To connect a generator to you house service, you need either an interlock or a transfer switch / generator panel, and a dedicated inlet.

 

[jharkin]

Its been beat to death, but by code that generator inlet should be hooked up to an interlock or transfer panel. So its only energized when the gen is running. Proper way to achieve what you want is run a second feed from your main to the shed. If its just one circuit you won't need a sub panel at the shed, but local codes might want a ground rod out there, talk to your inspector.

 

[Ashful]

I don't see how you can install an interlock/transfer switch, and also use that circuit for getting power to your shed, so as Jeremy already stated, you're going to need to run a second line to do this legal. By definition, the interlock keeps that circuit disconnected from the mains, when the mains are supplying power to the house.

 

[greg13]

The way a transfer switch works is that the circuit is either connected to the grid OR the generator, it cannot be connected to both. That method makes it impossible to connect to the grid if it is properly wired.

Greg

 

[Swedishchef]

The way a transfer switch works is that the circuit is either connected to the grid OR the generator, it cannot be connected to both. That method makes it impossible to connect to the grid if it is properly wired.

Greg

Go ask the utility pole climbers if they like having a feedback from a generator without a transfer switch (properly installed) when they reset a tripped breaker on the main lines...

 

[msherer]

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to do. This "outlet" you describe isn't really an outlet from what I am reading. Your best bet would be to hire someone who knows what they are doing to at least look at your setup. Get an estimate, it's free and you'll sleep better at night.

 

[WiscWoody]

If you kill the main breaker it won't feed power lines. And a linesman is required to wear approved gloves when handling lines and have the lines isolated at the pole throw. But yes a switch is the way that it's supposed to be connected.

 

[Ashful]

If you kill the main breaker it won't feed power lines.

This is all I do, and plan to continue doing, based on our very seldom outages (only two outages over an hour or three in 22 years, according to our veteran neighbors). Being an EE who designs high power test systems, this is hardly the deadliest electrical system I encounter. I think even the average homeowner can handle this, for a very occasional outage. Just be sure all cordage, receptacle, wiring, and breaker are sized to suit.

The primary downside to this method is that you have no way to know when the power comes back on. Feeding that genny thru a subpanel, and just separating the sub from the main is nicer in this regard.

Let the Barney Fife's flame away...

 

[Dave A.]

The primary downside to this method is that you have no way to know when the power comes back on.

If you call peco and report your outage (800 841 4141) they give you the option of being called by them when the power is restored. Works nicely.

 

[Michael Golden]

I back feed the house through a dedicated circuit. First thing I do thought is throw the main, then walk down to my pole where my service goes underground and throw the that breaker as well. My father in law is a linemen, and they don't appreciate the back feeding onto their system when they have trouble! Those transfer switches are just to expensive when there are just as safe ways of doing it just takes a couple extra steps.

 

[BrotherBart]

I don't backfeed for two reasons. One of them being that it is illegal here.

 

[Dave A.]

[Taking bets on how many messages before another thread shutdown.]

 

[burnham]

I don't backfeed for two reasons. One of them being that it is illegal here.

As a lineman and a master electrician I thank you. I don't have a problem with people doing their own work. The problem is, for every one person who know's what they're doing, there's four who think they know what they're doing.

 

[brian89gp]

What size is the breaker for this 220v circuit?

The breaker must be sized for smallest wire size that is attached. If you got a 30/40/50 amp circuit with appropriate wire size feeding this 4 wire outlet and wire up your outlets and lights with 14 guage wire you got to switch to a 15 amp breaker. Also any switch/outlet that is being used as a passthrough it needs to be rated for whatever voltage the wiring and the breaker is, most 15 amp outlets are rated for 20 amp passthrough.

Plus what everybody here is saying about the interlock switch.

 

[Ashful]

If you call peco and report your outage (800 841 4141) they give you the option of being called by them when the power is restored. Works nicely.

They seem to call four times before the problem's really fixed. I got a call on Wednesday that "a problem affecting power in your area has been fixed," but my power didn't come back until Friday.

As a lineman and a master electrician I thank you.

As a lineman, you know rule #1 is to assume every line is live.

 

[burnham]

They seem to call four times before the problem's really fixed. I got a call on Wednesday that "a problem affecting power in your area has been fixed," but my power didn't come back until Friday.

As a lineman, you know rule #1 is to assume every line is live.

As a lineman I don't need some joker who thinks they know what they are doing, making my job more dangerous. Gloves aren't going to protect you from everything. Ever spend any time out in the field? Nevermind the lineman, what about the kid who doesn't know any better? What happens when they step on a live wire and get killed?

I get a laugh out of you guys who post on here about how you just open off your main breaker (w/o interlock or gentran) when you are powering your house with a generator. You know it's not legal. You are posting here for the whole world to see that you are doing it, and that you know it's illegal. STUPID. What happens if someone closes your main breaker with the generator running? What happens if you have a faulty main breaker? What happens if you hurt someone? Are you powering your house this way because you can't afford to pay to have it done the right way, or are you just too cheap? Talk about a great way to advertise your negligence.