Embers out of blower! Need Help!!

[JEinSC]

Hi all!
First time poster here from SC where it’s actually snowing right now.
Here’s what I got.

I recently moved into a 1957 brick house with masonry chimney and a fireplace in the basement and upstairs den. I removed gas logs in favor of an insert. I found a local guy selling a BK Princess for $600. It’s about 10 years old and in fair shape. So I picked it up last week and installed a 6” liner with insulation kit. I modified the damper and bent some sheet metal to cover and seal. I also put in a new catalyst. Here’s the problem:
I built my first fire last night and began getting a feel for how it operates. Kept it small and never engaged catalyst. Had the fan on low and turned it up as I was getting ready for bed. Got up and checked on the fire for the last time and in the dark seen a few embers blow out toward the floor. On low it didn’t do it but on high it would continue. So I freaked out turned off the fan and turned damper down on low. Proceeded to stay up half the night paranoid.

I then came home from work today and pulled the insert out and inspected. I was assuming that maybe a pinhole had rusted through around the exhaust (male) connection. I didn’t find anything at all felt around and didn’t notice anything although I’m not certain what I was looking for. So I then assumed that it must be the appliance adapter not being seated correctly. I then really wrenched down on he adapter and retightened the liner. I also wrapped 3 layers of foil tape around the where they join (bad idea, glues melt and stink awful!). Built another fire tonight and the same thing. I looked close and could see a tiny glow under the firebox shroud around the exhaust but maybe an inch away from where it is actually welded into the firebox. Weird thing is that it appears to 1/4” steel in that area. It just doesn’t seem that would rust through.

Has anyone experienced this?
Any suggestions?
I have attached a couple of pictures.
Sorry to be so long. Just wanted to give the situation in case I did something stupid!
Thank you for any input.

Josh in SC

 

[begreen]

Yes, metal tape is not appropriate for hot flue liners.

I modified the damper and bent some sheet metal to cover and seal.

Explain please.

 

[JEinSC]

Yes, metal tape is not appropriate for hot flue liners.

Explain please.

I cut a piece of sheet metal and anchored it into the fireplace and cut a hole for the flue liner to go through. You can kind of see it in the second picture.

Question:
Is it possible to remove the firebox shroud?

 

[Hogwildz]

Is the flex seated fully into & squarely onto the insert outlet? That is the first thing I would check.

 

[JEinSC]

I don’t think it’s perfect. But when I put it in I looked inside the firebox and could see the flex was well into the adapter. I would say within half inch of being perfectly even. The odd thing is that it doesn’t appear to be coming from the connection but I may be wrong. But due to the angle of stove the adapter isn’t perfectly even into the firebox. I connected the adapter to the flex then into firebox. Should I connect adapter then put the flex in?

 

[begreen]

I cut a piece of sheet metal and anchored it into the fireplace and cut a hole for the flue liner to go through. You can kind of see it in the second picture.

Ah ok, that is the block-off plate. No problem there.

Question:
Is it possible to remove the firebox shroud?

Not sure. @BKVP would be the one who would know.

Were any combustibles used to seal the appliance connector to the stove collar?

 

[JEinSC]

No sir. Just connected it to the flex then into the stove. I don’t feel 100% about the seating of the appliance adapter but, it wrenched really hard to push it in. The front is all the way down but the back side is maybe 1/2” from being perfectly down. But, I put the foil tape over the whole connection which I’m assuming would stop any embers from coming through. But again, I’m not certain

 

[JEinSC]

Something else I just noticed.

I now have the damper as low as possible and the fire has been virtually silent. I turned the fan on low and within 10 seconds I can hear some crackling and pops.

Just to confirm, the blower is no way connected to the air supply to the fire? Right?

Second, I am suspicious if possibly previous owner some how got cresote or debris between the firebox and shroud. And when I turn the fan on it’s enough air to make it spark? This ever happened to anyone? But I’m not noticing any smoke.

This is driving me crazy!

 

[RobbieB]

It sounds like you have a breach in the firebox somewhere and the blower pressurizes the box when on. Not good...

 

[JEinSC]

It sounds like you have a breach in the firebox somewhere and the blower pressurizes the box when on. Not good...

I surely hope not but it does seem that way.
More questions:

If that’s true is that something that can be welded and be safe?

Or would you try to get back $600

 

[begreen]

Steel can be safely welded in most cases. Just for sake of clarity. When you say damper as low as possible, do you mean the thermostatic air control?

I would let the insert go completely cold. Then open the bypass and shine a bright flashlight beam from the interior around the flue collar from the interior. On the exterior, look for any light leaks. This may take darkening the room and an assistant.

 

[JEinSC]

Yes. That’s correct. I’m going to pull it out tomorrow and see if I can remove the shroud. I will keep you all posted. Thanks so much for the input.

 

[kennyp2339]

Just shooting from the hip here, 1st is pull all the fire brick out and check for the obvious holes / rust / warping. The next thing that comes to mind is like what you indicated, somehow there might be old creosote inbetween the blower house and stove body, pull the blower off, clean the blower and stove. Lastly, did you clean the chimney before installing the liner? maybe when installing the liner you knock loose some hidden creosote that then accumulated on the block off plate that is so how getting pulled down when the blower is turned on. I'd remove the block off plate and see if any creosote comes out. What size clay flue do you have?

 

[begreen]

Good luck. If it goes back in, look at the interior of the flue collar to make sure there isn't a casting or weld bump in the way of the appliance adapter fully inserting and skip the metal tape.

 

[JEinSC]

Just shooting from the hip here, 1st is pull all the fire brick out and check for the obvious holes / rust / warping. The next thing that comes to mind is like what you indicated, somehow there might be old creosote inbetween the blower house and stove body, pull the blower off, clean the blower and stove. Lastly, did you clean the chimney before installing the liner? maybe when installing the liner you knock loose some hidden creosote that then accumulated on the block off plate that is so how getting pulled down when the blower is turned on. I'd remove the block off plate and see if any creosote comes out. What size clay flue do you have?

I did clean the chimney first. I also installed the block off after I pulled the liner down.

How common is a breach?
It was made in 2005. I know that’s not new but, definetly not super old.

 

[shoot-straight]

Not sure about the princess, but I'll go with the easy fix- is there a chance that there is just some flammable debris in the blower housing?

 

[JEinSC]

Not sure about the princess, but I'll go with the easy fix- is there a chance that there is just some flammable debris in the blower housing?

That is very possible. I did clean out the fans and they were nasty with dust/junk. I got a lot of it but not all. I may have loosened up some that is slowly breaking loose and passing over the firebox. That seems the most likely situation.

Thanks!

 

[BKVP]

Start over. First, outer box is not removable. Second, remove bottom brick inside to see if there is a hole. No hole, disconnect flue connector. Clean out stove. Remove door. Lean firebox forward to see if debris comes out...use compressor, but low volume so as to not make home filthy.

Where the flue collar breaks through outer box, there should be a trim ring.

Post follow up.

 

[JEinSC]

BKVP,
I will follow your instructions. To be clear are you saying lean stove forward to see if debris come out of outer box?

 

[bholler]

Also get an elbow instead of a straight adapter so everything fits correctly.

 

[BKVP]

BKVP,
I will follow your instructions. To be clear are you saying lean stove forward to see if debris come out of outer box?

Yes

 

[Ashful]

Sorry to take interest in another's misfortune, but this is definitely one of the more interesting problems we've seen here, in awhile. Am I the only one with an urge to drive to SC, and start tearing this stove apart, to see what the heck is going on?

When BKVP says "to see if there is a hole," begreen's flashlight / dark room instructions may be real handy, there.

Also, ask yourself how many company executives would go out of their way to support product they built 12 years ago, which has been purchased on the used market? BK rules.

 

[begreen]

Sorry to take interest in another's misfortune, but this is definitely one of the more interesting problems we've seen here, in awhile. Am I the only one with an urge to drive to SC, and start tearing this stove apart, to see what the heck is going on?

When BKVP says "to see if there is a hole," begreen's flashlight / dark room instructions may be real handy, there.

I often have that urge. We get some interesting challenges here.

 

[JEinSC]

Sorry to take interest in another's misfortune, but this is definitely one of the more interesting problems we've seen here, in awhile. Am I the only one with an urge to drive to SC, and start tearing this stove apart, to see what the heck is going on?

When BKVP says "to see if there is a hole," begreen's flashlight / dark room instructions may be real handy, there.

Also, ask yourself how many company executives would go out of their way to support product they built 12 years ago, which has been purchased on the used market? BK rules.

I am certainly grateful for all the support and this really has me frustrated. We have and old buck slammer install in the basement and I done all this to have a safer, more efficient source of heat. That’s life I guess.

BKVP said there should be trim ring. I’m not sure I have this. Can I get a little more info?
The people I bought it from just bought the house it was in and had no idea about the Princess.
Again, thanks and I hope to have a solid conclusion tomorrow.

 

[begreen]

Hope the problem has the simplest conclusion.