Emergency Response to Serious Over Fire

[Ski-Patroller]

A couple of weeks ago (you may remember the thread) we got our Castine up to 900 degs by putting 3 Northern Idaho Energy Logs on a hot bed of coals. We won't put that much fuel in again, so hopefully we won't have the issue again.

My question is if it does happen what is the best response? I partially blanked off the main air inlet and it did cool the stove down. Is there a down side to doing this ? If this is an appropriate action I'm going to make an aluminum plate specifically to cover the air inlet in an overfire emergency. My stove has a heat shield on the bottom, so I can't just stuff a wad of aluminum foil in the hole. I need something that slides in between the heat shield and the inlet, and does a pretty good job of closing the inlet. I realize that this is not a way to control the heat output in normal circumstances, but If I see over 750 I want to have a plan of action.

 

[FionaD]

I realise my stove is much smaller than yours and that it may therefore not feel quite so much as though it's bolting away from me when things get tricky for a while in the temperature department... but I have gone into relatively high temps two or three times... And each time I have used the same pretty counter intuitive response of opening the door with great success.

Once only... (and, like you, hopefully never again!) I got to around 850 stove top temp. I immediately opened the door wide and the temps started dropping right away, within five minutes it was under 700.

The door does need to be opened wide though, or you run the risk of fanning the fire with air rushing through a cracked-open door. The roaring sound is a little freaky, but I told myself it's just the sound of the flames echoing through all that metal of the stove and flue.

Maybe I am less concerned than some might be about door-opening at time like this because I burned an open fire for decades till getting our first stove last year, so the experience of having no glass between me and a whole load of pretty active flames is something I am very used to... Even after a year with a stove I have noticed that I feel a little less comfortable looking into open flames.. it's been interesting to notice that change.

So, personally I can't see the need of all the work of creating a device to die down a fire... A bucket of sand kept somewhere would be the 'big guns' if ever they were needed... Becuase I think if the fire got to that stage (whatever stage that would be (I'm trying not to imagine it ) you wouldn't want to waste time fiddling with devices any more than you'd want to wait five minutes with the door wide open..

Sometime you could always try opening the door wide for a while, on a fire that isn't overfiring but is pretty high...maybe around 700, so you can get a feel for how quickly your stove and flue temps would drop. As you've pretty much said, after what happened, you need to just find the peace of mind of knowing you have a plan should you ever need it... I think you'll have more comfidence if you try to door thing in safer, more controlled circumstances and see how quickly it takes effect.

Just a thought... all the best!

 

[webby3650]

Opening the door wide open will cool it down faster than any other option.
Where was that 900 degree temperature taken?

 

[Schmev]

I'm new to this, but if you ever got into thermo-nuclear blast off couldnt you just use a fire extinguisher? Yeah it would be a mess but it would beat the alternative.

Also, my blower on high cools it down pretty fast.

 

[Jags]

'm new to this, but if you ever got into thermo-nuclear blast off couldnt you just use a fire extinguisher?

With a firebox overtemp, this would be the very last option. A completely different story if you are having a chimney fire. A 900 degree box will more than likely survive the extra heat. Blasting a stove load of wood with a fire extinguisher will bring its own set of problems with it. Namely, spraying hot coals out of the firebox and supercooling the firebox with a very good chance of a thermal crack when you are done.

 

[mstoelton]

I've only experienced an over-fire once when I first started burning my first Clydesdale. I had reead about opening the door to allow the heat to escape up the chimney on this forum.. It worked like a charm. The stove was back down to reasonable temps within about 5 minutes.

 

[fire_man]

Some Progress Stove owners (like me) can't leave the firebox door open with heavy flames present in the firebox without forcing huge amounts of smoke to exit from the air intake damper. The solution is to close the air damper completely before opening the door.

I'm not sure why only some of us have this issue - must be draft related.

 

[begreen]

With a decade of burning in 3 different modern EPA stoves and lots of experimenting I have never had a true overfire, ie: stovetop at or over 900F. I did have an incident with the Castine where I "thought" the stove was going to overfire and used the ball of aluminum in the intake to slow it down. That was early on in the learning curve and my fault for putting some very dry fir on a large hot coal bed. But I have a 20ft flue and that is different than trying to control a stove on a 35Ft flue. Some stove makers instruct to not install a stove on that tall a chimney. With that tall a chimney, a key damper is a necessity.

If you are new to the stove the main prevention is common sense. Don't fill the stove up with dry kindling or small sticks. And follow the manufacturer's guidelines if burning compressed fuel. That stuff packs a whallop. Take incremental steps in fuel load size, do your first big loads during the daytime wheh you can monitor the ifre and expect it is going to take a month or so to get the hang of the stove under different burning conditions.

 

[Osagebndr]

I wasn't real sure that the door should be opened , but as with my experience with my stove has taught me you learn something new about it everyday.

 

[Heatsource]

I'd bet a chimfex chimney fire extinguisher would slow it down really quick

 

[302BroncoJim]

If you are new to the stove the main prevention is common sense. Don't fill the stove up with dry kindling or small sticks. And follow the manufacturer's guidelines if burning compressed fuel. That stuff packs a whallop. Take incremental steps in fuel load size, do your first big loads during the daytime wheh you can monitor the ifre and expect it is going to take a month or so to get the hang of the stove under different burning conditions.

I have been running our new stove for the last three weeks with that philosophy and have had great success! Learning the limitations of the stove step by step makes it easier to control and bring back as you are going to far instead of having gone to far and get that scary feeling. Sometimes I feel like I am running a steam train, learning how to control the stove temp for the ideal burn temp and longest burns. Enjoying every minute of it. My family has been saying I am crazy but they are enjoying every minute walking around in shorts and T shirts.

 

[valuman]

I have been running our new stove for the last three weeks with that philosophy and have had great success! Learning the limitations of the stove step by step makes it easier to control and bring back as you are going to far instead of having gone to far and get that scary feeling. Sometimes I feel like I am running a steam train, learning how to control the stove temp for the ideal burn temp and longest burns. Enjoying every minute of it. My family has been saying I am crazy but they are enjoying every minute walking around in shorts and T shirts.

I can totally relate. My wife laughs at (with?) me because I'm constantly monitoring the stove as I learn how to run it, what it does under different conditions and how to maximize both heat output and fuel efficiency. It's a neat hobby with much to learn and the better I get at it, the more comfortable we'll be in our home. That we get to leave the LP Man out of the equation, or at least minimize their involvement, is a huge bonus!

 

[jhjove]

I have not been in the overfire area yet. I have a hearthstone mansfield...the highest temp I've registered on the center top stone was just under 600F....which is the manufacturer max temp.
When I do see the fire starting to roar....I shut the air intake off, keep the door closed and adjust the damper in the metal flue pipe to maximum blockage. This usually reduces the volume of fire fairly quickly and the flue temps (forgot to mention I have a flue temp probe) within 10 minutes. I monitor flue temps and try not to let fires get over 900F flue-gas temp....at least not much over...

I guess I question whether anyone should open the door to the firebox to "reduce" a fire....I would think the opposite would occur.

Regards,
Joe

 

[Clarkbug]

It won't reduce the fire, but the inrush of cold air that can get sucked up the chimney lowers your stove temps.

 

[Jacklake2003]

I have modified my air intake to reduce (eliminate) the draft holes when closed all the way and this, along with the blower on high, will keeps things from getting too out of control.

Prior to this though, I had a couple that got me concerned. I opened the door and poured on just a few ounces of water; directly on the logs/coals. I was careful not to add doo much or do get any on the metal or glass. It's pretty amazing how quickly the steam cools things off.

 

[rideau]

I don't want to be reaching in and pouring cold water on a hot fire. Prefer the recommendation of sand, if necessary.
Too many chances of something unpleasant happening.
Like Begreen, I am into my second decade of burning EPA stoves (only 2 different ones in my case) and have never come near a runaway fire, although I have had a couple of pretty roaring fires and 900 degree probe flue temps, always because of my neglect. They calm right down with simply shutting the air down. Flue temp starts dropping immediately, is down 200 degrees in minutes. Only once did I also resort to pointing a fan at the stove....had a stovetop at around 600, way high for my stove, and indicative of the inferno that was going on in the firebox.

 

[Ski-Patroller]

With a decade of burning in 3 different modern EPA stoves and lots of experimenting I have never had a true overfire, ie: stovetop at or over 900F. I did have an incident with the Castine where I "thought" the stove was going to overfire and used the ball of aluminum in the intake to slow it down. That was early on in the learning curve and my fault for putting some very dry fir on a large hot coal bed. But I have a 20ft flue and that is different than trying to control a stove on a 35Ft flue. Some stove makers instruct to not install a stove on that tall a chimney. With that tall a chimney, a key damper is a necessity.

If you are new to the stove the main prevention is common sense. Don't fill the stove up with dry kindling or small sticks. And follow the manufacturer's guidelines if burning compressed fuel. That stuff packs a whallop. Take incremental steps in fuel load size, do your first big loads during the daytime wheh you can monitor the ifre and expect it is going to take a month or so to get the hang of the stove under different burning conditions.

I have a 24' flue, and normally have no problem with stove temps, but this time we put 3 logs on a hot bed of coals. Bad Idea I always thought these stoves were air limited so that a large fuel load would not cause a problem, but that is obviously not the case, especially with compressed logs. Note, that we had already shut down the primary air completely, some where around 600 degs.

I considered opening the door, but thought it was a bad idea. I may have to re-think that. I'm curious if anyone has tried it with a Castine that was in the 800+ temp range.

I am going to make up my damper to cover the air intake in an emergency. It did work pretty well the first time and it was not a very good fit. I sometimes have friends or relatives using my cabin, and I want to give them some emergency tools/procedures.

I am still a big fan of the Northern Idaho logs. They hold a fire a lot longer than Doug Fir or Tamarak logs. They are also cleaner, except for the trail of sawdust they leave everywhere.

 

[begreen]

Yes, I have opened the door to slow down the Castine with a raging fire. It settled down immediately.

The stove is designed to burn up wood gases that would otherwise pollute the air. When the excess of NIELs were put on a hot coal bed they all offgassed at once creating a huge gas bloom which the stove diligently tried to burn up. This is operator error, not a stove design issue.

 

[Ski-Patroller]

I don't want to be reaching in and pouring cold water on a hot fire. Prefer the recommendation of sand, if necessary.
Too many chances of something unpleasant happening.
Like Begreen, I am into my second decade of burning EPA stoves (only 2 different ones in my case) and have never come near a runaway fire, although I have had a couple of pretty roaring fires and 900 degree probe flue temps, always because of my neglect. They calm right down with simply shutting the air down. Flue temp starts dropping immediately, is down 200 degrees in minutes. Only once did I also resort to pointing a fan at the stove....had a stovetop at around 600, way high for my stove, and indicative of the inferno that was going on in the firebox.

Have you ever tried the Sand? I suspect it won't have much effect unless you put in enough to pretty much smother the fire.

I did the small amount of water in a fireplace with a chimney fire many years ago. Just enough to generate steam and then I blanked off the front of the fireplace to cut off the air supply.

 

[begreen]

 

[Ski-Patroller]

Yes, I have opened the door to slow down the Castine with a raging fire. It settled down immediately.

The stove is designed to burn up wood gases that would otherwise pollute the air. When the excess of NIELs were put on a hot coal bed they all offgassed at once creating a huge gas bloom which the stove diligently tried to burn up. This is operator error, not a stove design issue.

I agree that it was operator error, and the stove was doing what it was supposed to do. Other than being hotter than I was comfortable with, looks like no harm done.

 

[begreen]

The Castine is a robust stove and a good heater. If you put the foot on the pedal and tell it to go, it will. It took me most of the season to learn the ins and outs of the F400. Different wood, different draft (due to outside temps), different fuel size and some tests with compressed wood product made that winter a learning experience.

 

[valuman]

This brings an interesting and important point up that I hadn't considered throughly enough; training occupants on over-fire procedures. My wife is not known for staying focused on mechanicals when there are other things to think about, which includes everything else in the world. I've been assuming that shutting the damper will tame any over-fire but I should have backup plans in place as well. I wonder if I can convince her to open the stove door and throw a half a glass of water on a hot firebox then close the door again...

 

[Schmev]

Speaking of raging fires, whenever my wife sees there are no flames she immediately wants to throw logs on even if the stove top temp is like 475 degrees.

Me: "The thermostat says it's 79 in here."
Wife: "Yeah but the fire went out so i added 5 logs"
Me: "If it's that hot why did you add more wood?"
Wife: "I like looking at the flames!"

Whatever... she learned her lesson. and at least she knows to shut down the air when it catches, and if the wife is happy then I'm happy.

 

[David.Ervin]

I've heard tell that a good way to quench a runaway fire without making too much mess is to dunk a toilet roll in the bowl, and toss the whole soggy thing in there. Seems reasonable, since the steam and water should cool it off and extinguish some flames, and any residue left over is just paper anyway. Anybody care to comment?