Enerzone Wood Insert Performance

[ritzry2]

Good morning and thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide.

We recently converted a masonry wood-burning fireplace to a wood-burning insert, and the performance we are getting from our insert is not what we were expecting. I am not sure if my expectations are too high or if I am doing something wrong? The insert we purchased is Enerzone Destination 2.3 (https://www.enerzone-intl.com/en/products/wood-inserts/destination-23-i-wood-insert/) Based off the specs, this insert should be able to heat up to 2,100 square feet which is the square footage of our entire house. We are not using the insert as a primary heat source but rather supplemental heat.

I am experiencing is about 3-4 hours burn cycles and about 5 degrees of increase in temperatures on the main floor where the insert resides when we burn for about 4-6 hours. The outside temperatures are approximately 25-35 degrees. The spec sheet indicates 8 hours burn cycles. I consider a burn cycle as the time from when I load the wood to when it burns down to a bed of coals. Why am I only getting about half the burn time the manual states?

I read through many threads on this website to see how to improve performance. I am burning dry hardwood (oak and ash) that is reading about 10% moisture on my moisture meter. I am loading the firebox pretty full, but I am not packing it tight. I installed a block-off plate and placed 2" insulation above the plate. I did NOT place insulation around and behind the insert, but I could do if that would be recommended.

Our main level is about 1000 square feet and we have 8-foot ceilings. It's an open concept layout on the main level. Our family room has the insert which opens to a kitchen / dining room which opens to a living room and stair case that leads to the second level (which is another 1000 square feet).

I attached some photos of our insert. When the installers installed the insert, they had to chip away some of the existing brickwork to fit the insert. I am not sure if that is normal or not. Here are descriptions of the photos:

1) One photo shows above the fire insert before the block-off plate was installed.
2) One photo shows behind the fire insert
3) Two photos of the sides of the insert
4) Two photos of the block-off plate

Is what we are experiencing normal performance, or should we be getting better performance or am I doing something wrong?? Even the family room where the insert is installed does not get that warm. It increases about 5 degrees in temperature; I was thinking this room would get really warm to the point where we would want to turn down the heat. This has not been the case. It's warms the room, but not to the point where you want to turn it down.

If anyone has any input / advice for us, I'd really appreciate it.

Many thanks, Ryan

 

[bholler]

Good morning and thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide.

We recently converted a masonry wood-burning fireplace to a wood-burning insert, and the performance we are getting from our insert is not what we were expecting. I am not sure if my expectations are too high or if I am doing something wrong? The insert we purchased is Enerzone Destination 2.3 (https://www.enerzone-intl.com/en/products/wood-inserts/destination-23-i-wood-insert/) Based off the specs, this insert should be able to heat up to 2,100 square feet which is the square footage of our entire house. We are not using the insert as a primary heat source but rather supplemental heat.

I am experiencing is about 3-4 hours burn cycles and about 5 degrees of increase in temperatures on the main floor where the insert resides when we burn for about 4-6 hours. The outside temperatures are approximately 25-35 degrees. The spec sheet indicates 8 hours burn cycles. I consider a burn cycle as the time from when I load the wood to when it burns down to a bed of coals. Why am I only getting about half the burn time the manual states?

I read through many threads on this website to see how to improve performance. I am burning dry hardwood (oak and ash) that is reading about 10% moisture on my moisture meter. I am loading the firebox pretty full, but I am not packing it tight. I installed a block-off plate and placed 2" insulation above the plate. I did NOT place insulation around and behind the insert, but I could do if that would be recommended.

Our main level is about 1000 square feet and we have 8-foot ceilings. It's an open concept layout on the main level. Our family room has the insert which opens to a kitchen / dining room which opens to a living room and stair case that leads to the second level (which is another 1000 square feet).

I attached some photos of our insert. When the installers installed the insert, they had to chip away some of the existing brickwork to fit the insert. I am not sure if that is normal or not. Here are descriptions of the photos:

1) One photo shows above the fire insert before the block-off plate was installed.
2) One photo shows behind the fire insert
3) Two photos of the sides of the insert
4) Two photos of the block-off plate

Is what we are experiencing normal performance, or should we be getting better performance or am I doing something wrong?? Even the family room where the insert is installed does not get that warm. It increases about 5 degrees in temperature; I was thinking this room would get really warm to the point where we would want to turn down the heat. This has not been the case. It's warms the room, but not to the point where you want to turn it down.

If anyone has any input / advice for us, I'd really appreciate it.

Many thanks, Ryan

View attachment 304213 View attachment 304214 View attachment 304215 View attachment 304216 View attachment 304217 View attachment 304218

How tall is your chimney? How are you running the stove? What is your procedure for testing your wood?

 

[ritzry2]

Chimney is about 25' tall.

I have an insert (not stove). I fill it with wood, let it burn down to coals, reload. I start with the air vent wide open and then turn it down once it really gets going. I am getting good draft and flames.

I test the wood by placing the prongs of a moisture meter at the end of the wood. It burns clean.

 

[bholler]

Chimney is about 25' tall.

I have an insert (not stove). I fill it with wood, let it burn down to coals, reload. I start with the air vent wide open and then turn it down once it really gets going. I am getting good draft and flames.

I test the wood by placing the prongs of a moisture meter at the end of the wood. It burns clean.

25' is on the high side but shouldn't make it uncontrollable.

Yes I know you have an insert. But an insert is still a stove just one that is built to go inside a fireplace. How far are you shutting the air back? Try doing it sooner.

Measuring wood in that way really doesn't tell you much you need to bring wood inside get it up to room temp. Then split it open and test in the middle of that fresh split face

 

[moor]

I too have an insert and am getting similar results as you, although mine is half the size. Earlier in the year I was having bad burns and discovered that my moisture meter would read significantly lower than real if the wood was cold. So outside it would read 18-20 percent but after it warmed up it would be closer to 30. I brought a face into my basement and bought a better meter and now I don't have an issue. I went from 3 to 6 hour burns.

 

[moresnow]

Are you running the blower?

 

[mellow]

Sending that heat to the fireplace blocks, which if this is an internal chimney just means it is heating other parts of the house, if this is an external chimney then you are heating the outside rather than your house.

I would look into insulating that fireplace if you want to get the heat OUT. Looks like they already did a block off plate which is good.

Finally got around to insulating my fireplace

Mellow - How did you get the Roxul to stay in place on the top block plate? I have my 4" pipe coming down through what is left of my old damper with Roxul stuffed into the remaining cavity - nothing on the side walls.

www.hearth.com

 

[bholler]

Sending that heat to the fireplace blocks, which if this is an internal chimney just means it is heating other parts of the house, if this is an external chimney then you are heating the outside rather than your house.

I would look into installing a block off plate and insulating that fireplace if you want to get the heat OUT.

Finally got around to insulating my fireplace

Mellow - How did you get the Roxul to stay in place on the top block plate? I have my 4" pipe coming down through what is left of my old damper with Roxul stuffed into the remaining cavity - nothing on the side walls.

www.hearth.com

They have a block off plate

 

[ritzry2]

25' is on the high side but shouldn't make it uncontrollable.

Yes I know you have an insert. But an insert is still a stove just one that is built to go inside a fireplace. How far are you shutting the air back? Try doing it sooner.

Measuring wood in that way really doesn't tell you much you need to bring wood inside get it up to room temp. Then split it open and test in the middle of that fresh split face

I typically do 1 load with the air vent fully open and then cut it back to about the midway point after that.

I will try your way of measuring the wood moisture.

Thanks for the tips.

 

[ritzry2]

I too have an insert and am getting similar results as you, although mine is half the size. Earlier in the year I was having bad burns and discovered that my moisture meter would read significantly lower than real if the wood was cold. So outside it would read 18-20 percent but after it warmed up it would be closer to 30. I brought a face into my basement and bought a better meter and now I don't have an issue. I went from 3 to 6 hour burns.

Thanks for the info. What do you mean by "I brought a face into my basement"?

What moisture meter did you purchase?

My wood seems dry. I can start a split log with 1 fire starter...no hiss or water or major smoke.

So, in your case, you were able to double your burn time by burning dryer wood? Was that the conclusion?

At the end of your 6 hour burn cycle, are you still getting heat and still have hot coals or is it basically like starting over again for the next load?

 

[bholler]

I typically do 1 load with the air vent fully open and then cut it back to about the midway point after that.

I will try your way of measuring the wood moisture.

Thanks for the tips.

1 load with it wide open? Even at half open you are probably sending most of your heat up the chimney shut it back more and you will get more heat in the house

 

[ritzry2]

Are you running the blower?

Yes, I am. It automatically comes on when the insert warms up.

 

[ritzry2]

1 load with it wide open? Even at half open you are probably sending most of your heat up the chimney shut it back more and you will get more heat in the house

Got it, thanks. This is my first insert, so I really don't know what I am doing. I didn't think it would be that complicated. So you recommend shutting the air vent to the lowest setting?

 

[ericm979]

Lowest setting where it still burns cleanly. You can go out and look at the chimney to see.

My EPA ZC fireplace (basically a stove in a box similar to an insert) manual recommends waiting to turn the air down until all the wood is black. They're right (for that stove). What that means in practice is when I close it down there's just a few flames from the secondaries. As the load continues heating there's more flames. If I close it and the flames go out after a few minutes, I closed it too early.

I can see on the magnetic thermometer on the front that it does not heat up much if I leave the air on. It generates a lot more heat with the air turned down all the way.

Also with this stove it can put out good heat for hours after the wood is just coals. If I turned the air down. If I left the air open that stage is a lot shorter and there's less heat.

 

[begreen]

Got it, thanks. This is my first insert, so I really don't know what I am doing. I didn't think it would be that complicated. So you recommend shutting the air vent to the lowest setting?

With a 25' tall liner, yes, you will probably be able to cut the air back 100%, done in increments. Cutting the primary air back creates a vacuum in the firebox which in turn pulls air through the ports in the secondary tubes. This makes the firebox hotter with more complete combustion and less heat heading up the liner.

This post illustrates the incremental turning down of the air resulting in a hotter stove while reducing the flue temp.

Starting a fire and running an EPA stove

Questions about starting a fire and avoiding a runaway stove come up so frequently I decided to document starting our stove. This is a Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 with about a 3 cu ft firebox. The stove is connected to a straight-up, 20' interior flue. The outside ambient temperature is 34ºF. The...

www.hearth.com

Is this an exterior wall or interior fireplace?

 

[Garbanzo62]

So I have a new insert myself (Regency I2500). I have my thermostat set to 62 and can get the main room where the insert is up to over 70. I'm still trying to figure out my stove for the best operation. I asked about a block off plate and my installer said I didn't need one. Not sure why, it is an external chimney. I wasn't here for the installation, so I have no idea what they did. However, I can get good burn times even with odd shaped pieces that make filling the box difficult. As someone else mentioned. After a new load, I wait to start to close the damper. First few minutes I have the door cracked, Then after 5 min I shut the door completely. Then I close the damper in increments over the next 20 minutes. Last night I loaded up about 9 PM, at 6:30 this morning, still had good coal bed and the fan was still pushing Warm air, Keep fiddling with things until you figure out what works best for you situation.

 

[begreen]

Lots of installers say a block-off plate is not needed. This is not always the case, but it's extra work, expense, and hassle. Most people want a competitive bid so the dealer/installer dismisses the process as unnecessary.

That said, for an exterior wall fireplace, it does make a difference, especially if some insulation can also be added behind the insert. Without the block-off plate and back insulation, heat is wicked out via the cold masonry. To see this, take an IR thermometer or FLIR and measure the outside of the chimney when the insert is burning.

 

[Garbanzo62]

Lots of installers say a block-off plate is not needed. This is not always the case, but it's extra work, expense, and hassle. Most people want a competitive bid so the dealer/installer dismisses the process as unnecessary.

That said, for an exterior wall fireplace, it does make a difference, especially if some insulation can also be added behind the insert. Without the block-off plate and back insulation, heat is wicked out via the cold masonry. To see this, take an IR thermometer or FLIR and measure the outside of the chimney when the insert is burning.

So just did what you suggested. Chimney is between 10 and 20 degrees warmer than the foundation away from the chimney. Not sure I can get them out to do the plate and insulation this year, I'm sure they are busy as hell right now. I'll definitely look into it when I have them service the unit in the spring though.

 

[ritzry2]

Sending that heat to the fireplace blocks, which if this is an internal chimney just means it is heating other parts of the house, if this is an external chimney then you are heating the outside rather than your house.

I would look into insulating that fireplace if you want to get the heat OUT. Looks like they already did a block off plate which is good.

Finally got around to insulating my fireplace

Mellow - How did you get the Roxul to stay in place on the top block plate? I have my 4" pipe coming down through what is left of my old damper with Roxul stuffed into the remaining cavity - nothing on the side walls.

www.hearth.com

My installer didn't put the block off plate in. I just recently installed that with 2" insulation. I consulted Enerzone and the person I spoke with said to not worry about sealing the gaps of the block off plate because that can be a mess and hassle if the plate is removed. So, the plate is not air tight by any means but it should be retaining much of the heat.

My chimney is exterior. What do you recommend for insulation and where to insulate it? I used Kaowool insulation on top of the block off plate.

 

[ritzry2]

Lowest setting where it still burns cleanly. You can go out and look at the chimney to see.

My EPA ZC fireplace (basically a stove in a box similar to an insert) manual recommends waiting to turn the air down until all the wood is black. They're right (for that stove). What that means in practice is when I close it down there's just a few flames from the secondaries. As the load continues heating there's more flames. If I close it and the flames go out after a few minutes, I closed it too early.

I can see on the magnetic thermometer on the front that it does not heat up much if I leave the air on. It generates a lot more heat with the air turned down all the way.

Also with this stove it can put out good heat for hours after the wood is just coals. If I turned the air down. If I left the air open that stage is a lot shorter and there's less heat.

This is good to know. It is somewhat counterintuitive. You would think more air would result in more heat. I will have to experiment more. I have shut the air down and the fire almost went out...so I need to figure out the timing and so forth. Thanks!

With a 25' tall liner, yes, you will probably be able to cut the air back 100%, done in increments. Cutting the primary air back creates a vacuum in the firebox which in turn pulls air through the ports in the secondary tubes. This makes the firebox hotter with more complete combustion and less heat heading up the liner.

This post illustrates the incremental turning down of the air resulting in a hotter stove while reducing the flue temp.

Starting a fire and running an EPA stove

Questions about starting a fire and avoiding a runaway stove come up so frequently I decided to document starting our stove. This is a Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 with about a 3 cu ft firebox. The stove is connected to a straight-up, 20' interior flue. The outside ambient temperature is 34ºF. The...

www.hearth.com

Is this an exterior wall or interior fireplace?

It is an exterior wall.

 

[mellow]

My chimney is exterior. What do you recommend for insulation and where to insulate it? I used Kaowool insulation on top of the block off plate.

Finally got around to insulating my fireplace

Been able to run for a few days straight with the cold temps, I really do not see that much difference in everyday operating, where I see the difference is in how much longer the fan stays on because the insert stays warm longer and I now have large coals in the morning after an overnight burn...

www.hearth.com

 

[ritzry2]

So I have a new insert myself (Regency I2500). I have my thermostat set to 62 and can get the main room where the insert is up to over 70. I'm still trying to figure out my stove for the best operation. I asked about a block off plate and my installer said I didn't need one. Not sure why, it is an external chimney. I wasn't here for the installation, so I have no idea what they did. However, I can get good burn times even with odd shaped pieces that make filling the box difficult. As someone else mentioned. After a new load, I wait to start to close the damper. First few minutes I have the door cracked, Then after 5 min I shut the door completely. Then I close the damper in increments over the next 20 minutes. Last night I loaded up about 9 PM, at 6:30 this morning, still had good coal bed and the fan was still pushing Warm air, Keep fiddling with things until you figure out what works best for you situation.

Thanks for the information. I am impressed with your burn cycle. I am nowhere near that. Last night I put the last load in around 9pm too and I got up around 1:30am. It was down to coals and the fan was off. I added wood and it ignited easily. Got back up around 6:30am and there were no embers but once I stirred things around they appeared. There was little to no heat output. I added more wood and things got going again. I will keep experimenting.

 

[Garbanzo62]

Thanks for the information. I am impressed with your burn cycle. I am nowhere near that. Last night I put the last load in around 9pm too and I got up around 1:30am. It was down to coals and the fan was off. I added wood and it ignited easily. Got back up around 6:30am and there were no embers but once I stirred things around they appeared. There was little to no heat output. I added more wood and things got going again. I will keep experimenting.

I would make sure your damper is down all the way and your door seals tight. Otherwise you are going to get too much air and it will burn fast and hot.

 

[moor]

Sorry I was away for a minute, bringing in a face meant bringing a face cord or a third of a cord into my basement to warm up. My firebox is 1.2 cu ft so at six hours I am putting out very little heat but still have good coals for a re start. This works fine after burning all day because I am just maintaining my preferred heat range. If I need to warm the house up by a large margin I am refilling every four hours to keep the heat pumpin. As far as doubling my burn time with dryer wood I would say the coaling is much better and Im getting better heat for longer because partly the stove had to run much longer open before I could close down the air intake this would shorten the length of each burn stage. Excess moisture is going to consume btu to cook the water out and that btu goes up the chimney with the steam.

 

[begreen]

This is good to know. It is somewhat counterintuitive. You would think more air would result in more heat. I will have to experiment more. I have shut the air down and the fire almost went out...so I need to figure out the timing and so forth. Thanks!

It is an exterior wall.

You will likely benefit from a block-off plate and some insulation behind the insert if there's room.