Englander 17-VL

[Charles2]

It seems to take forever to get a fire started in this model. What am I doing wrong? I've tried bottom up and top down, neither seems to work like I hope. Details:

1. The manual says not to use a grate, to build the fire directly on the firebrick.

2. I don't know what species of wood I have, but it's VERY dry, like 11% MC, but it just won't seem to catch fire easily.

3. Can I smother a fire with too much newspaper? I can't seem to do without lots of it.

How long should it take to get a good fire going, to where no smoke is visible coming from the chimney?

How soon should the door be closed?

When if ever should the air control be adjusted?

I basically have no idea what I'm doing, but I don't remember ever having this much trouble with an open fireplace.

 

[BrotherBart]

Are you building a fire with small stuff first to build a coal bed before you load it? Dragging the coals forward when you do load it and then leaving the door cracked until the load is charred and flaming well?

 

[Dix]

You have to work on a coal bed first, as BB said. Howw arm is it outside, maybe a draft issue??

 

[brad wilton]

did you split the wood and take the moisture reading from fresh split, take it at room temperature. might be wrong but sounds like wet wood? maybe try something like super cedars ,sometimes paper doesn't stay lit long enough to catch fire

 

[Charles2]

Are you building a fire with small stuff first to build a coal bed before you load it? Dragging the coals forward when you do load it and then leaving the door cracked until the load is charred and flaming well?

You seem to be talking about reload - I'm talking about a fresh start.

You have to work on a coal bed first, as BB said. Howw arm is it outside, maybe a draft issue??

Definitely not a draft issue - I've got a tall, straight, interior chimney.

did you split the wood and take the moisture reading from fresh split, take it at room temperature. might be wrong but sounds like wet wood? maybe try something like super cedars ,sometimes paper doesn't stay lit long enough to catch fire

This wood has been seasoning for YEARS and feels bone dry. Surely super cedars will not be a requirement?

Here they show an open fireplace that's smokeless in under 2 minutes: (broken link removed to http://www.renaissancefireplaces.com/en/videos) . Is the teepee style and andirons their secret? I can't do either in the 17-VL.

 

[BrotherBart]

Building the small fire to establish a coal bed is cold start. Not reload.

 

[Charles2]

Building the small fire to establish a coal bed is cold start. Not reload.

If I can't even get my kindling to burn, how can I start a small fire? Exactly how should I arrange the pieces?

 

[Dix]

Not talking about the height of your chimney. Talking about outside temps. Colder the temperature, the better your draft is going to be. The warmer it is outside, the harder it is to get the draft going.

 

[bholler]

If I can't even get my kindling to burn, how can I start a small fire? Exactly how should I arrange the pieces?

Wow you finally got a stove and installed that chimney? Like dixie said if it is warm out you wont have much draft at all. And 11% is extremely low for air drying in a temperate climate how did you get that reading? You do not want a grate or andirons especially in a small stove like the 17 you would have no room for wood i doubt you would get over a 2 hour burn like that

 

[Charles2]

Not talking about the height of your chimney. Talking about outside temps. Colder the temperature, the better your draft is going to be. The warmer it is outside, the harder it is to get the draft going.

It's certainly been warm outside, but I really think wood ought to burn in any temperature.

 

[bholler]

It's certainly been warm outside, but I really think wood ought to burn in any temperature.

Draft relies on a temperature differential between inside and out if you don't have that you will have trouble establishing draft the wood will burn eventually but with high temps outside it will take a long time to get going and you may have smoke spillage.

 

[Charles2]

Wow you finally got a stove and installed that chimney? And 11% is extremely low for air drying in a temperate climate how did you get that reading?

Yep, I pulled the trigger. I didn't measure 11%, that's just equilibrium moisture content for my climate.

 

[bholler]

Yep, I pulled the trigger. I didn't measure 11%, that's just equilibrium moisture content for my climate.

I think you are wrong on that unless you found a desert in ga. Properly air dried wood in temperate climates is usually around 14% to 18%. 11% would be very hard to reach If you don't know the moisture content of the wood don't tell us what you think it is.

 

[bholler]

Also where was the wood stacked was it top covered and off the ground how long was it split what species is it?

 

[Charles2]

I think you are wrong on that unless you found a desert in ga. Properly air dried wood in temperate climates is usually around 14% to 18%. 11% would be very hard to reach If you don't know the moisture content of the wood don't tell us what you think it is.

Here's where I'm getting my claim: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...poKYBg&usg=AFQjCNFxK7HMw8L7W2BiAUoOetZSAYBaRg

Where are you getting yours?

Also where was the wood stacked was it top covered and off the ground how long was it split what species is it?

The wood was stacked outdoors, under roof, off the ground. I just split it yesterday and it feels bone dry.

I think I do need a little bit of a grate to set things on. About 6" x 6" and 4" tall. Sound good to y'all?

 

[bholler]

Where are you getting yours?

Many years of real world experience

I just split it yesterday and it feels bone dry.

If you just split it yesterday it is not dry unless you are talking wood that has been under roof for 5+ years and even then some species may not be there

I think I do need a little bit of a grate to set things on. About 6" x 6" and 4" tall. Sound good to y'all?

No you dont need it you are wrong

 

[bholler]

Where are you getting yours?

According to that link your wood in ga given enough time would be 12% to 13% But fire wood is very thick and takes a long time to reach that equilibrium. And my numbers are right on for my location.

 

[Charles2]

According to that link your wood in ga given enough time would be 12% to 13% But fire wood is very thick and takes a long time to reach that equilibrium. And my numbers are right on for my location.

Aren't you splitting hairs? Can a 1 to 2 % difference really matter?

 

[BradleyW]

Sounds like you probably have draft and wood issues. Try burning some kiln dried wood and see if that helps.
My chimney is relatively short and it can give me issues in the shoulder season with poor draft.
Combine wet wood and bad draft a you are going to have a heck of a time getting a fire going.
Like others have said, when starting cold it is often best to build a small fire that burns down to coals in under two hours, then use that coal bed to ignite a full load.

 

[bholler]

Aren't you splitting hairs? Can a 1 to 2 % difference really matter?

If it were actually that low no it would not but being that you just split it unless it is pine or poplar or some other really fast drying wood And it has been cut and covered for a very long time i seriously doubt that you are anywhere near that equilibrium point. All that and the fact that your problem is typically caused by wet wood tells me that your wood is probably no where near as dry as you think. That combined with poor draft from higher outside temps are most likely causing your problems.

 

[bholler]

Aren't you splitting hairs? Can a 1 to 2 % difference really matter?

I don't mean to pick on you but when someone tells me that their air dried wood is 11% I automatically doubt that their wood is dry at all because that number is next to impossible to achieve which is backed up by the link you provided

 

[Charles2]

I don't mean to pick on you but when someone tells me that their air dried wood is 11% I automatically doubt that their wood is dry at all because that number is next to impossible to achieve which is backed up by the link you provided

Well, you are picking on me. I said my wood was "like 11% MC", not exactly 11%. What do I have to do, have it tested in a lab? Why don't I mail you a piece and you can test it with your equipment. Seriously.

 

[Dix]

B isn't picking on you at all, we're trying to help you. 1st year burners with a new stove usually run into problems. I did. Thought I had seasoned wood, didn't listen to the sage advice here, and clogged my chimney in the PE in 3 months. I wasn't happy

Wood burning done right is a HUGE learning curve, involving the user, the stove & set up, and most importantly, the fire wood.

Have you tested the firewood with a moisture meter?

 

[bholler]

What do I have to do,

Go buy a $30 moisture meter and test it then we can give you accurate info on what is causing your problem. I am telling you that it is very unlikely that your wood is even below 20% but there is no way for us to know because we don't know what species it is what moisture content it was when it was stacked under roof how big the rounds where ect. A very experienced wood burner can tell if wood is dry enough by the checking the weight the sound ect. But you are not that experienced at this point. I am really trying to help you but if you are not going to listen to us and are not going to give us enough or accurate info on what is going on it is very hard to do so

 

[Dix]

You can also run down to tje local convenience store (or where ever) and grab a bundle of firewood to try.

That will help answer your questions as well.