brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
04HEMIRAM2500, glad to here that you finally pulled the trigger on a burner, I've heard good things about the Englander 30. You gonna post some pics o dis bad boy?
Englander 30 First Fire Issue
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brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
Any unburnt coals will burn up in the next fire if they're dug out of the ashes. BTW, unburnt coals usually means wet wood.
I mean that since I am done using it till sunday the coals will still be there butt by then they will be cold are you saying that they should turn to ashes or burn up or something?
BCC_Burner
Feeling the Heat
Yes, they will burn. They are similar in composition to charcoal at this point. If you were to remove them would you save them in a glass jar on the mantle as a memento of your first fire in your new stove, because that might actually be sort of neat.
Hey all another thing that I saw on the stove was a few bright silversh spots and a couple little dents on the top of the stove is this normal?? What I think happened is that I left a thermometer on the stove and when the paint got hot to cure the dents and silverfish stuff melting off of the thermometer. However, you would figure that this could not happen though because the thermometers are meant for that high of temps 600 degrees.
Hi. 68 degs out, any stove is going to be dang nasty to get going- ie real hard to get sufficient draft. The 30 is a beast in warm temps to get up to full temp. open door trick when starting as mention prior, slight difference, close door and let latch fall behind catch do not set it tight. If you let the door stand open a bit with out the latch dropping that is too much air and actually makes things worse. In warm temps to start small scrap kindling, when going good then add a few very dry splits no more than 1.5" dia. soon as those catch fully close door add more of same when those are red coals, repeat,you want a nice red coal bed glowing now you can add some larger splits no more than about 3" dia. just 2 or 3 until burning well then a couple more. All tis time the damper control should be wide open. Now you can add bigger splits but wait on damper until a real good raging inferno is going ,then close damper about 1/2 way to ash tray wait about 10 min. then set it flush to damper. ( about the best spot on mine) some this all depends on the kind of wood you are feeding it. You need a good coal bed to get dense wood like oak, beech, locust to burn well. You see on the nc30 you have to get the500 lbs of steel relatively hot and the flue hot to get good draw. Another thing the 30 hates wet wood, ( not unlike a lot of other stoves available now) even at 20% it is a bit finicky, get close to 15% and you swear some magic genie swapped out your stove for something else. 2000sq ft ranch, about 80inside , 40 outside on 4 pieces of silver maple 2 hours ago . This will be my 3rd winter with the 30. It supplies 98% of my heat all winter ( sometimes I have to give the house a boost from ng furnace when its below zero out all day and night and I haven't been home for 10 or more hours) Love the wood heat, objecting to the extended cold outside more and more seems to bite into my bones more the older I get. No spring in my step but I shuffle along ok yet.
Hey blades thanks for all of the good info. For me on Sunday it is a high of 45 and a low f 29 so it will be good to see how it does.
Okay all day yesterday and today. I can not get this stove even up to 500 degrees. It right now the flue is just under 300 and the stove is at just over 400. I leave the door all the way open and use the dead wood that was found laying dead and I cut up and stacked and split so it is dry!! I can not get it to burn the logs. I thought that the logs would become inflamed. Instead mine just get lit in a few spots. Again the only way to get heat is to leave the door open. I am still not thinking that it is my wood. Let me know what you guys think.
Even if I get the flue past three hundred once I shut the door with the damper wide open it smolders the fire within 30 minutes. I am almost considering if something is wrong with this thing. Again, my flue is 15 feet I could add another foot but I do not think that this is my problem. The only way to heat it up is to throw a huge load of scrap lumber and even then it only gets to about 600 and it will then die down fast cause of the pine.
Personally, I am thinking of returning it and getting the englander NON EPA furnace. But, I wanted to post o here to see if I am missing something after all I am new to this but this is crazy not getting any heat or in my opinion a great draft when it is 29 outside.
Even if I get the flue past three hundred once I shut the door with the damper wide open it smolders the fire within 30 minutes. I am almost considering if something is wrong with this thing. Again, my flue is 15 feet I could add another foot but I do not think that this is my problem. The only way to heat it up is to throw a huge load of scrap lumber and even then it only gets to about 600 and it will then die down fast cause of the pine.
Personally, I am thinking of returning it and getting the englander NON EPA furnace. But, I wanted to post o here to see if I am missing something after all I am new to this but this is crazy not getting any heat or in my opinion a great draft when it is 29 outside.
BobUrban
Minister of Fire
Best guess from reading through all this is two fold. Wood is not below 20% and chimney issues of some sort. From the description of the wood being dead on the ground but not CSS'd for a year or more you likely have high moisture content.
Is your chimney straight up or are there 45's? Is it 6" all the way to the top? 8"? Larger? If it is larger than 8" or has 45's it would be beneficial to have it taller for sure. The E-30 is test fired with 16' of straight up chimney with 6" pipe(from what I understand. Any deviation from this will vary your results +/- to some degree. I have a straight up through the house 16' with the first 6' of DBL wall 6" stove pipe into 8" class A and have a strong draft with 15-18% wood.
Get an accurate idea of the MC on your splits and describe your chimney more accurately as far as size and design. Unless these two factors are met I do not believe it is the stove as this is one really user friendly heat machine. Not to say there is no chance that you have some sort of defect but the PITA of swapping stoves only to discover the issue is tertiary would encourage me to look at ALL other options first.
Once you KNOW you have wood under 20% try a NS fire with a tunnel left front to back right in line with the dog house. Place a chunk of super cedar in there and leave the door cracked for a few to get it going. Just cracked - not open. Leave the latch loose only with an 1/8-1/4" crack. Once it gets started pretty good close the door and the dog house should take over. This will be obvious and if not you more than likely have draft issues. Just my best guess w/o further information.
Is your chimney straight up or are there 45's? Is it 6" all the way to the top? 8"? Larger? If it is larger than 8" or has 45's it would be beneficial to have it taller for sure. The E-30 is test fired with 16' of straight up chimney with 6" pipe(from what I understand. Any deviation from this will vary your results +/- to some degree. I have a straight up through the house 16' with the first 6' of DBL wall 6" stove pipe into 8" class A and have a strong draft with 15-18% wood.
Get an accurate idea of the MC on your splits and describe your chimney more accurately as far as size and design. Unless these two factors are met I do not believe it is the stove as this is one really user friendly heat machine. Not to say there is no chance that you have some sort of defect but the PITA of swapping stoves only to discover the issue is tertiary would encourage me to look at ALL other options first.
Once you KNOW you have wood under 20% try a NS fire with a tunnel left front to back right in line with the dog house. Place a chunk of super cedar in there and leave the door cracked for a few to get it going. Just cracked - not open. Leave the latch loose only with an 1/8-1/4" crack. Once it gets started pretty good close the door and the dog house should take over. This will be obvious and if not you more than likely have draft issues. Just my best guess w/o further information.
The pipe is 6 inch single wall in home and supvervent 6 inch chimney pipe it is perfectly straight and no elbows. I am not thinking a draft issue because with the door all the way open the smoke does not come into the room. No matter how hard I try, once I close the door even with the damper all the way open regardless of the type of wood it smolders the fire. I wish I had a moisture meter but even with the door all the way open the fire is still not going. It is impossible to over fire. Also the wood I found dead has no bark left and was rock solid to split it was so hard so I still do not think wood. I am almost considering moving the ash plug and letting air come in from the pan by pulling it out a little to see what would happen? Let me know if there is a way to determine if I could have got a bad stove. I was skeptical when I got it at home depot and the copyright is 2011? Maybe someone returned it but the firebricks look new!!
The good thing is that I know the damper is working butt even wide open I can not get the stove past 500. The firebox is filled but not past the firebricks like stated in the manual. Also, I went through 10 decent sized logs yesterday and am getting barely no heat. With the englander furnace this amount of wood I could have used at least for one day and had the house 80 degrees!!
Also, the logs are north to south. It just does not make since that right now the stove is at 500 and flue is 350. If I shut the door and leave damper wide open temps will not increase and eventually fire will smoulder itself.
Also, the logs are north to south. It just does not make since that right now the stove is at 500 and flue is 350. If I shut the door and leave damper wide open temps will not increase and eventually fire will smoulder itself.
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To prove it is 'not' the wood go and get yourself a moisture meter. Test the exterior and then split the wood and test the newly exposed innards. These EPA non cat stoves seem to be very very sensitive to moisture content, at least mine is. Another thought may be to pick up some Eco/Bio brick type of alternative and mix them with some of your wood.
I know you 'think' it is not the wood (I was absolutely 'sure' of mine/I was wrong), now you have to prove it to yourself. Consider 20% to be the max, outside and in.
I know you 'think' it is not the wood (I was absolutely 'sure' of mine/I was wrong), now you have to prove it to yourself. Consider 20% to be the max, outside and in.
If it is the wood that is ridiculous. In order to operate this thing I will need to have two years worth of supply pre set outside in order to heat it. My question now is what about the englander furnace will it still give me heat even with the wet wood if it is wet? I know this thing wont but the furnace is non epa so I am thinking I am better off there?
Also, say my wood is wet, even with the damper and door wide open I can not get past 500 degrees on stove and 350 max on flue. Can this wet wood really do this and will it be this bad in the furnace?
Also, say my wood is wet, even with the damper and door wide open I can not get past 500 degrees on stove and 350 max on flue. Can this wet wood really do this and will it be this bad in the furnace?
PLAYS WITH FIRE
Minister of Fire
To check the 30 out get some kiln dried or 2x4's or pallet wood and see how they burn. Be sure they are not treated or anything and keep a very close eye on the fire as it may take off real quick for ya..... That will tell you for sure how the engine is running!
As for the furnace if the wood is wet I would assume it can be a problem there too.
As for the furnace if the wood is wet I would assume it can be a problem there too.
Augie
Feeling the Heat
Again Im going to say relax. Relax, read a bit around here and you will learn most, if not all of us, are trying to get 2-3 years ahead on our wood supply so that we have seasoned wood. Yes the stove REQUIRES, dry seasoned wood with a moisture content below 25 percent to function at all and below 20 percent to function as designed. YOu have a great stove, your test with scrap pine proves it. I am sorry you are frustrated, many are who assume that you can just throw in any cut and split wood to burn like the old stoves. The new EPA stoves are vastly superior to the older non EPA stoves in regards to heat output, BUT they NEED dry wood. Fill out your profile a bit, let us know where you are located(what city or town) and there 'might' be a member local that could part with some seasoned wood to get you going, or you could find some kiln dried that will cost more, but be less expensive than heating oil.
Running with the door and the air control wide open is actually going to cool down the stove somewhat. Try closing off the door after you have a good blaze started. At that point, will the wood burn? If not it may be time to seek out better seasoned wood.
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Thanks guys but this is crazy am going to invest in a meter but this wood is dr if anything it is 20-25% max wet. I just did not realize the sensitivity of these epa stoves. If it is not below 20 percent man are you in trouble. Even if I burn more wood to actually have heat I am better off with the englander furnace.
At this point, I just want to know that if my wood is slightly wet, will the furnace at least give me more heat. Of course I will burn more wood but maybe not after all, I used like 10 maybe even decent sized wood pieces for a days worth of heat n this stove and it did not get past 500.
At this point, I just want to know that if my wood is slightly wet, will the furnace at least give me more heat. Of course I will burn more wood but maybe not after all, I used like 10 maybe even decent sized wood pieces for a days worth of heat n this stove and it did not get past 500.
No after the flue temp is 350 and stove are 500 once I close the door within half an hour it is being smoldered.
I am just now wanting to know if the non epa furnace will be this bad. It is just my like that once I make a decision it backfires on me. I saw epa says it will save you on wood and well at ten pieces a day refilling it constantly I doubt it.
I am just now wanting to know if the non epa furnace will be this bad. It is just my like that once I make a decision it backfires on me. I saw epa says it will save you on wood and well at ten pieces a day refilling it constantly I doubt it.
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
You wont get high temps with the door wide open. When you CLOSE the door and cut back the air your temps will go up PROVIDED you have enough draft AND DRY, DRY, DRY, wood You also wont get enough draft when its THAT warm outside. Wait till its colder out. WHen its 68 outside my house is 80 inside without a fire. I usually start burning at 40 outside or below.
Seasoned Oak it is 33 outside right now. I am sure that this wood can not be very wet if anything it is just above 20% max is 25 It has all the signs to be dry it clunks and alot of splits on the end.
Again at this point I am frustrated with my decision and want to know if the non epa furnace will not be as hard to fire even if this wood is slightly wet.
Again at this point I am frustrated with my decision and want to know if the non epa furnace will not be as hard to fire even if this wood is slightly wet.
Moderately dry wood will burn ok, not as good as fully seasoned, but it will burn. Try a bundle of really dry wood from someone that has well seasoned wood or from the local hardware store and see how that works.
How are you measuring the moisture?
How are you measuring the moisture?
Again, I have now way to measure the moisture. I am just observing the wood it clunks and was dry on the ground hard to split and alot of cracks on the end. Will the non epa furnace be a little nicer about the greener wood.
Also, what temps flue and stove temp should this thing be running at?
Also, what temps flue and stove temp should this thing be running at?
OK, I have read back on this whole thread and am now suspecting the issue may be weak draft. There is 12 ft of pipe with 2-90 degree turns in it. That makes it effectively be about a 7 ft flue. It needs more. Without decent draft the stove can't pull enough air in to feed the fire. Draft is the engine of the stove.
Hemi, try this. It will be much cheaper than replacing the stove. Go to the local hardware or big box store and get a 4 ft length of cheap, 6" round, galvanized, air duct pipe. Pull the chimney cap and insert the duct pipe in, crimp down. This will temporarily extend your chimney by 4 ft. Do it on a calm day so that the wind doesn't blow the pipe down. Now try the stove again. If you see a day and night difference then the issue is draft and the chimney will need to be extended with a 3 or 4' length of class A pipe.
Hemi, try this. It will be much cheaper than replacing the stove. Go to the local hardware or big box store and get a 4 ft length of cheap, 6" round, galvanized, air duct pipe. Pull the chimney cap and insert the duct pipe in, crimp down. This will temporarily extend your chimney by 4 ft. Do it on a calm day so that the wind doesn't blow the pipe down. Now try the stove again. If you see a day and night difference then the issue is draft and the chimney will need to be extended with a 3 or 4' length of class A pipe.
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