Englander 30 First Fire Issue
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Augie
Feeling the Heat
many here have said the same things, only to find out that their wood is closer to 30-35 percent.
You have a few things going against you,
- Minimum draft necessary
- Wet Wood
- Warm Outside temps
- New Stove owner(this is a HUGE factor)
Sorry, my error. Try the test anyway. It's inexpensive and pretty easy to do. Your stove's draft could be on the threshold. If so, you will know right away if this is going to work.
PS: How are you testing the wood's moisture. Are you checking just the end grain, or are you resplitting the wood and checking the freshly exposed face of the wood?
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That is not a bad idea to check the new grain of the wood after resplitting. However, I am returning this thing t home depot. I just want to know if the non epa furnace will burn my wood hotter without the hassle. If not I will buy wood. Even if bought wood, I doubt it would be dry enough for this stove. I just want to chuck this thing out the window. It is lucky that it is heavy.
If the wood is damp inside a non-EPA stove can't create any more heat from it. All it can do is burn more wood so that you feel like you are getting more heat. What you are going through is common for a first try. I would try the temp chimney test and properly measure the wood. You can't tell the wood moisture from the end grain. If it's the wood, there are ways to help it dry faster. If it's the chimney you will know quickly with that simple test.
Paul L
Member
Your frustration is understood. However after getting good results with known dry wood you seem to be a bit stubborn about recognizing that a large source of your problems could very well be the moisture content of what you are burnng. Those bundles of wood at the grocery / convenience store always seem to be very dry and it would certainly be worth a try to do exactly what you've been doing, but using known dry wood. You say your wood "clunks" ... in my experience wet wood "clunks" and dry wood "clacks."
Is this place near you?
Brell's All-Pro Tree Services
140 Cypher Rd, Tarentum, PA
(724) 226-8221
Brell's All-Pro Tree Services
140 Cypher Rd, Tarentum, PA
(724) 226-8221
It sounds like you have a lot of good suggestions here. It could be any one of these things or a combination of them. Probably leaning toward the combination side. If it's a relatively warm day today and your wood is not as dry as it could be, try changing it up with another try on a different day. Also I think the chimney test sounds like a great idea. You probably have some process of elimination ahead of you.
I have sometimes struggled with the same types of problems. I have a flue/chimney setup that is not ideal, but i'm not in a position to do much about. I have had not so dry wood in the past which required much more air supply to get to burn. I've had to make peace with not having fires if over 35/40 degrees outside. It's taken me some time to figure this out. Some really experienced guys on here are getting you going in the right direction.
I have sometimes struggled with the same types of problems. I have a flue/chimney setup that is not ideal, but i'm not in a position to do much about. I have had not so dry wood in the past which required much more air supply to get to burn. I've had to make peace with not having fires if over 35/40 degrees outside. It's taken me some time to figure this out. Some really experienced guys on here are getting you going in the right direction.
I am still leaning to the furnace now. Will it burn hotter and or better?
Also, if not the bigger blower will move the lower firebox temps better than this. I am just not going to work with this.
Also, if not the bigger blower will move the lower firebox temps better than this. I am just not going to work with this.
I agree that the variables will still apply but the difference is that the furnace is just a firebox not epa and does not use the burn tubes. So a different style of burning might do it that is why I am thinking the furnace again.
The dryer the wood, the hotter it will burn, doesn't matter what wood burner your using. Try turning the blower off until the stove is up to temp.
We know your frustrated\. In fact, I'm dealing with the exact same issue as you. I replaced a perfectly good working non EPA basement heater this summer with a new Drolet Austral (same firebox steel stove as the Englander). It refuses to burn efficiently with the exact same wood I fed the old stove for 20 odd years. I'm now planning how I will get through the winter with this ga***%^%ed new stove. My problem is, it is not the stove!! There is a work around..........as others have said, relax it can be made to work.
Nothing is going to get better until you stop blaming the tools and fix the problem. If your truck was running crappy with no good reason you check the fuel to make sure it doesn't have water in it. Same thing with the stove. I would still try adding on the chimney. It will take 30 minutes and the increased draft could help a lot. Total cost under $10.
What I am saying s that if I can only get not even half of my house hot and burning just as much wood as the englander furnace which has the big blower to push the air I would rather get that. Also, I removed the ash plug and opened the ash door a little and the thing lit up fast but when leaving the ash pan open and door closed with damper open the fire diminishes again it is about 38 to 40 max outside.
Plus it is the way that it burns the wood that makes me think the furnace will do better.
Plus it is the way that it burns the wood that makes me think the furnace will do better.
The double wall chimney pipe is more expensive then ten bucks. Also, I doubt that it is draft because from what I understand if I have a weak draft when I open the door all the way the smoke should come into the room and it does not.
BCC_Burner
Feeling the Heat
Agreed, spent a total of $40 and get a moisture meter while you're buying that length of pipe to test the draft increase. I am almost positive that wet wood is contributing to the problems you're experiencing.
Also, make sure your chimney cap is not clogged/obstructed in some way, although if you aren't getting smoke spillage that's unlikely. The lack of smoke spillage makes me think it must be related to unseasoned wood.
Even 38 or 40 is warm enough to reduce burn quality, especially if combined with unseasoned wood. I have a short chimney attached to my Englander, and while it drafts and burns well enough when it is in the upper 30's or 40's, it still isn't great. Last night we bottomed out around 10 degrees, it was in the mid teens when I put the overnight load in and after 40 minutes had the damper 90% closed with secondaries firing the full length and width of the firebox. Give it a chance to actually get cold.
Also, make sure your chimney cap is not clogged/obstructed in some way, although if you aren't getting smoke spillage that's unlikely. The lack of smoke spillage makes me think it must be related to unseasoned wood.
Even 38 or 40 is warm enough to reduce burn quality, especially if combined with unseasoned wood. I have a short chimney attached to my Englander, and while it drafts and burns well enough when it is in the upper 30's or 40's, it still isn't great. Last night we bottomed out around 10 degrees, it was in the mid teens when I put the overnight load in and after 40 minutes had the damper 90% closed with secondaries firing the full length and width of the firebox. Give it a chance to actually get cold.
I am thinking that too it must be wood but my wood can not be that bad which makes me want to look at the furnace because if these epa stoves are that particular that is ridiculous.
BCC_Burner
Feeling the Heat
They are not particular, it is simply that wood that is over 20 or so percent MC does not burn efficiently. It might be easier to burn wet wood in an old smoke dragon, but you will get a fraction of the that you would from an EPA stove with dry wood.
Having nice dry wood is not being particular, even an older stove burns better with dry wood, the water content just lowers the temp of the burn, you have to remove the water first. You will not be giving the stove a fair shake until you sort through the problems you are now having.
Less than ten bucks will determine if improving draft will get you more heat. Seems reasonable.
I agree with your statements but I did not realize how dry was necessary. My neighbor has a century wood furnace none epa and he heats house to 75 no problem. He has his wood cut and split by june so it cures over the summer only. Yes he probably is using more wood but at least he can get his non epa burner u to temp this thing wont!!
Sorry all just threw another log in and the thing catches on flames close the door and 25 minutes later no flames.
Yes, I am probably not giving this thing a fair chance without dry wood. But if it needs really dry compared to moderately or even a little off from 20% forget it. This just is not for me will be making a return trip and getting the furnace.
Sorry all just threw another log in and the thing catches on flames close the door and 25 minutes later no flames.
Yes, I am probably not giving this thing a fair chance without dry wood. But if it needs really dry compared to moderately or even a little off from 20% forget it. This just is not for me will be making a return trip and getting the furnace.
USMC80
Minister of Fire
I also have a ducted non epa wood furnace downstairs that I used for 10 years (until now). You will experience similar problems if your wood supply is not dry enough. Sure it will burn but you will burn twice as much as if you had dry wood. You will also deal with a lot of creosote and smoke. And getting the thing started up is a PIA
BCC_Burner
Feeling the Heat
I think you would be better off buying something like Biobricks or North Idaho Energy logs and mixing them with your wood in the stove. To me, it is easily worth the effort to acquire properly seasoned wood in order to heat with the fuel of my choice, while also minimizing my environmental impact. Be patient, make it work with energy logs, pallet wood and your own stuff this year and work on getting truly dry wood for winters to come. These stoves produce an incredible amount of heat relative to the amount of pollution they produce IF run properly.
Will the furnace burn your wood, yes, will it provided better heat for the same amount of fuel- likely not. Ok so that is out of the way. Now you are almost as stubborn as a Missouri mule, or myself with Russain and mostly German heritage, and that my friend is bad news.
Now I have an NC30 I have about 16ft or so of flue straight up. Double in side, attic on triple wall.
1. First thing I am going to tell you is, wood has to be 20% or less INTERNALL (12-15% optimum)
2. There must be an ash bed of at least 1/2" or more deep. ( acts as insulation and holds coals) You will not see 600deg plus from a clean stove, must have a good glowing coal base to achevie that.
3. BIG splits will not automatically ramp up the stove temps, in fact just the opposite. Split your wood down to 2x2 and then see what happens. and for heavens sake get a moisture meter and check the inside ( across the grain) with it. Dead standing, laying on the ground, checked ends, clunking sound- don't mean squat.
4. Temps above 40 deg. make it very difficult to get a good draft out of the dog house( air feed center bottom).
5. If your home is fairly tightly sealed against air infiltration, you will need to add an out side air feed (OAK) Even with an oak it is difficult to get things cranking for a bit in shoulder temps. It will take at least 30 minutes or longer to get that 500 pounds of steel up to a good temp before you see what it can do.
7. By the way you will need about 7 cord ( 4x8x4) of DRY wood with that furnace ( or similar) for the winter. ( I have a smoke dragon in the basement also)
8. Most any of the current EPA certified stoves are going to behave in a similar fashion ( most furnaces are not EPA certified as no standards exist yet for them).
Any Questions? go back to the begining of my post and re read slowly.
Bit fiesty today ain't I.
Now I have an NC30 I have about 16ft or so of flue straight up. Double in side, attic on triple wall.
1. First thing I am going to tell you is, wood has to be 20% or less INTERNALL (12-15% optimum)
2. There must be an ash bed of at least 1/2" or more deep. ( acts as insulation and holds coals) You will not see 600deg plus from a clean stove, must have a good glowing coal base to achevie that.
3. BIG splits will not automatically ramp up the stove temps, in fact just the opposite. Split your wood down to 2x2 and then see what happens. and for heavens sake get a moisture meter and check the inside ( across the grain) with it. Dead standing, laying on the ground, checked ends, clunking sound- don't mean squat.
4. Temps above 40 deg. make it very difficult to get a good draft out of the dog house( air feed center bottom).
5. If your home is fairly tightly sealed against air infiltration, you will need to add an out side air feed (OAK) Even with an oak it is difficult to get things cranking for a bit in shoulder temps. It will take at least 30 minutes or longer to get that 500 pounds of steel up to a good temp before you see what it can do.
7. By the way you will need about 7 cord ( 4x8x4) of DRY wood with that furnace ( or similar) for the winter. ( I have a smoke dragon in the basement also)
8. Most any of the current EPA certified stoves are going to behave in a similar fashion ( most furnaces are not EPA certified as no standards exist yet for them).
Any Questions? go back to the begining of my post and re read slowly.
Bit fiesty today ain't I.
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