EPA looking to delay 2020 Emission Regulations

[lampmfg]

http://forgreenheat.blogspot.com/

I have attached our response-

 

[Mojappa]

well said, hopefully it doesn't fall on deaf ears.

 

[BoiledOver]

Drain the swamp? No, he enjoys the swamp just as every other swamp inhabitant.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I can see why your upset as the previous ruling helped your business, but possibly at the expense of other business,s.
But if you have a better product,it should sell itself without help from the EPA. Cleaner is usually more fuel efficient anyway.
When it comes to pollution local communities can enact their own regulations to restrict the worst offenders.
Its always a balancing act,some will love you and some will hate you no matter what you do, so it looks like they are leaning toward having least amount of business.s hurt. That said i hope you prevail in your lawsuit,i think there is plenty of room for improvement in wood stove emissions. I would think a ban on non EPA certified stove operation (And there are a lot still out there) would do so much more to reduce emissions, that would be a better place to start.

 

[E Yoder]

If the cost of testing was lower a lot of this debate would disappear. From what I hear from the manufacturer I work with (HeatMaster) the high cost of testing coupled with the uncertainty of how the legal battles will sort out makes it very difficult to know what to prioritize.
If the testing cost came down or was simplified then you could afford to guess. And just aim high and be the best you can be.

 

[lampmfg]

I agree about the testing, and that's why I'm so upset with all this stuff. The stress my dad went through (he was a complete wreck) to get this passed exceeding the 2020 regulations was unbelievable. It was nearly a two years process when you factor in all the mishaps, not on our end.

 

[E Yoder]

Sounds familiar. We would have improved our design already but the regs won't allow it without retesting. Test methods are changing..
I don't know what the answer is. What we have now isn't helping innovation.
Lack of funding creates a bottleneck so it's not all the EPA's fault. Trying to find a path forward through the courts doesn't look pretty.

 

[Mojappa]

If the cost of testing was lower a lot of this debate would disappear. From what I hear from the manufacturer I work with (HeatMaster) the high cost of testing coupled with the uncertainty of how the legal battles will sort out makes it very difficult to know what to prioritize.
If the testing cost came down or was simplified then you could afford to guess. And just aim high and be the best you can be.

But it’s not like this was sprung on everyone three weeks ago, there’s been plenty of time to start the process.

I will say, I do agree with their thought process that the testing should be done with cord wood, not kiln dried lumber.

 

[E Yoder]

Yes, you're right. Every manufacturer should have made this a priority.

 

[lampmfg]

But it’s not like this was sprung on everyone three weeks ago, there’s been plenty of time to start the process.

I will say, I do agree with their thought process that the testing should be done with cord wood, not kiln dried lumber.

Ours was done with cordwood.

 

[Mojappa]

Ours was done with cordwood.

That’s good to know. You guys will definitely get my money next go around when the Drolet reaches the end of its life.

 

[woodey]

You guys will definitely get my money next go around

And it will be money well spent.

 

[lampmfg]

Nice editorial

http://www.timberjay.com/stories/epa-wood-stove-regs,14071

 

[sportbikerider78]

http://forgreenheat.blogspot.com/

I have attached our response-

So you want the new regs so that you can profit from it...all the while lambasting other companies who are lobbying to keep the regs?

Get real man. The hypocrisy is staggering.

Make a great product. Fill a niche. Price it competitively. People will buy it.

 

[Mojappa]

He wants the new regs because they invested everything to meet them rather than banking on lobbyists helping to continue the pollution of our only planet to live on. The competition had enough time to make a product that would pass the tests, what’s their excuse for not being ready? To put it differently; It’s not fair to the kids that studied for the exam to postpone the exam because others wasted their time.

 

[maple1]

So you want the new regs so that you can profit from it...all the while lambasting other companies who are lobbying to keep the regs?

Get real man. The hypocrisy is staggering.

Make a great product. Fill a niche. Price it competitively. People will buy it.

I am failing to see this hypocrisy you speak of. Are you sure you've been reading correctly?

 

[JRHAWK9]

So you want the new regs so that you can profit from it..

Nobody said anything about any new regulations. The ones in discussion were put it place back in 2015 and the 2nd phase is set to take affect in 2020. These are not new. They were not even involved in the process of making the regulations. They simply have just been preparing for such regulations in which they KNEW were going to come. Something the rest of the industry should have been doing as well.

If a company of less than 10 employees with hardly any R&D budget can do it, there's no excuse why the largest company in the industry with a MUCH larger R&D budget can't as well.

.all the while lambasting other companies who are lobbying to keep the regs?

Don't really know what you are reading, Lamppa -ARE- for keeping the current regulations as they are. The companies you seem to be siding with -ARE- the ones who are doing the lobbying to get the regulations changed.

 

[brenndatomu]

all the while lambasting other companies who are lobbying to keep the regs?

Keep the regs? You mean roll back the regs...so they continue to build this kind of crap? https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/fire-chief-or-shelter-epa-stoves-feedback.167418/

 

[BoiledOver]

So you want the new regs so that you can profit from it...all the while lambasting other companies who are lobbying to keep the regs?

Get real man. The hypocrisy is staggering.

Make a great product. Fill a niche. Price it competitively. People will buy it.

BOLD statements. Care to share your logic with the rest of us? It appears that facts have no bearing in your judgements.

 

[E Yoder]

The irony in this discussion is the EPA has to my knowledge done nothing to even enforce step 1 (2015), even during the Obama years.

 

[JRHAWK9]

The irony in this discussion is the EPA has to my knowledge done nothing to even enforce step 1 (2015), even during the Obama years.

I've wondered this myself. Can one still buy non 2015 compliant units from the factory? Non-compliant NOS units I'm sure are available.

 

[brenndatomu]

I've wondered this myself. Can one still buy non 2015 compliant units from the factory? Non-compliant NOS units I'm sure are available.

Dunno what the boiler guys have been doing, but I know Yukon said there was no sell through...once May 15 2017 hit, all new unsold non compliant units were only good to sell to Canada, or as parts donors. But somewhere here I have heard of a few stove shops that apparently have still been trying to sell a few non-compliant NOS units (furnaces specifically) don't remember what brand...

 

[Mojappa]

Dunno what the boiler guys have been doing, but I know Yukon said there was no sell through...once May 15 2017 hit, all new unsold non compliant units were only good to sell to Canada, or as parts donors. But somewhere here I have heard of a few stove shops that apparently have still been trying to sell a few non-compliant NOS units (furnaces specifically) don't remember what brand...

I was under the impression that outdoor furnaces/boilers weren't included in the new regulations (based on little to nothing). seems that crowd is opposed to burning well seasoned wood more efficiently from the few I've talked to. They are afraid they won't be able to toss 3' green logs in anymore. lol

 

[sportbikerider78]

BOLD statements. Care to share your logic with the rest of us? It appears that facts have no bearing in your judgements.

This part of the article sums it up the issue, as I understand it. From the article posted on blogspot

"Since the 2015 regulations went into effect, scores of wood and pellet stoves and boilers have been tested to meet the 2020 standards and most prices have not gone up significantly. The 2015 regulations began a process of requiring that manufacturers test and report their efficiencies, and delaying the 2020 deadline would set back efficiency disclosures, harming the ability of consumers to choose more efficient appliances."

OP says his stoves meet 20 regulations. Great. Now he is ticked off that others might have an extension for more time.

It is totally hypocritical to say that "Big business throwing their weight around..." when he himself is in the very same business segment he is claiming throws its weight around. He just planned ahead...no doubt to make some more of those profits. Normal to any business, I think.

Then in the letter...
"What good are jobs if you're too sick or dead to even work? Or if family and friends are getting sick from air pollution?"

That is pretty silly point coming from a manufacturer of a woodstove. Honestly...how efficient are any of our stoves on startup? How many of us ALWAYS have the perfect wood to burn? Do you think everyone who runs a woodstove takes the care most of us here on this website use?

If the OP believes smoke at the 2015 reg kills people, he needs to get out of the business, because most people aren't running their stoves with dry wood. Those stoves may never see the claimed numbers in a study.

I apologize for making a short statement and not explaining myself. I dropped a grenade that didn't make much sense.

 

[sportbikerider78]

I was under the impression that outdoor furnaces/boilers weren't included in the new regulations (based on little to nothing). seems that crowd is opposed to burning well seasoned wood more efficiently from the few I've talked to. They are afraid they won't be able to toss 3' green logs in anymore. lol

Some people with OWB really do abuse the kindness of their neighbors. There are some valleys I drive through on cold mornings, you can barely bare to drive through...let alone live in. I'd be knocking on that guys door and having a real "come to Jesus" talk with him.