Felling question

[Aranyic]

So I've got a question on taking down this tree. It's an ash the eab got into and needs to come down and it's far enough in the open that I can work with it and I practice.

Now I don't think where the trunks Y there is enough force holding thek together to wedge one side and then make my felling cut on back side and bring both trunks down as 1 unit correct?

My plan was to start on the right side and put my wedge cut about 50% through to start. Then work it in a little more until I'm about 75-80%. Then make a vertical cut down the middle of the 2 trunks and will that release enough hold that it will come down?

Or do I need to bring a platform of some sort out to get up high enough that I can do a traditional felling cut from the back side? Got to get about 6 feet off the ground (2 more than is comfortable for me) to be able to angle the bar correctly.

 

[Jason763]

By experience, that ash should be notched as two separate trees. By the pictures from the crotch, to almost the ground line, there is included bark. In other words, in the end when you cut the trunk at the ground line there will most likely be a Crack from the crotch to the ground. So if you notch that as one tree , when you make the back cut the tree may separate and fall in two different directions.

 

[jkbemdavis]

I agree... I would take two separate logs from that then work on the trunk with much less pressure on it. It's easier to control where each log falls that way, and is much safer as well..imo.

 

[Wood Duck]

I think you should do a traditional notch in front with a back cut, even if that means getting up off the ground. Or here is another approach to consider Cut a notch in the face of one tree so that the tree will fall away from the second trunk. Then plunge cut about an inch behind the notch and cut back toward the second tree. When you have cut through the trunk of the one you are felling, it will fall normally, I think. I think the connection between the two trees is weak enough that it won't make much difference except that it gets in the way of you and the saw. It won't hold the tree up significantly.

 

[paul bunion]

I think you should do a traditional notch in front with a back cut, even if that means getting up off the ground. Or here is another approach to consider Cut a notch in the face of one tree so that the tree will fall away from the second trunk. Then plunge cut about an inch behind the notch and cut back toward the second tree. When you have cut through the trunk of the one you are felling, it will fall normally, I think. I think the connection between the two trees is weak enough that it won't make much difference except that it gets in the way of you and the saw. It won't hold the tree up significantly.

Yes to your second approach but additionally I would zip my saw down the seam between the two trees to be sure that they are fully and freely separate from each other. You probably are right that they will easily separate but probably doesn't cut it. I'd much prefer to be absolutely sure.

 

[Wood Duck]

I think Paul Bunion has a good idea. Separate the trunks with a cut, then fell the first tree as I described. A friend recently turned me on to plunge cutting the back cut. It is nice because the last bit of wood on the outside of the back cut *normally the first wood you'd cut) remains in place and keeps the tree securely standing until you are ready to fell it. You won't the start the plunge cut in the middle of the trunk then cut forward, toward the notch, to form a hinge the way you'd like it to be. Then resume cutting back toward the side of the tree far from the notch.

 

[Firefighter938]

Yes, bore or plunge cut is what I use 90% of the time when the trees are big enough. I would drop them as two seperate trees, but be careful and have a spotter. Watch for widow makers and the second trunk moving when the first is dropped.

I noticed the angled back cut on the stump next to your trees. If you made that cut be very careful doing it in the future. You want your back cut to be horizontal approx 1" above the bottom of your conventional face cut.

Cutting down at an angle can create a "ski slope" as the tree slides down the back cut, causing it to fall the wrong direction.

 

[Aranyic]

Thanks for all the info. I've been checking out bore cutting; I will work with that on these trees. Found some really good video's from Husqvarna going through the process.

On the back cut angle that was very steep trying to get in between the trunks that I had for the first one. Wasn't as high as the ones pictures but still pretty narrow gap. The bore cut should help me a lot with that issue. I had learned to do an angle on the back but (not to that extreme normally though). I'll adjust that and start doing a flat but on that; makes sense I can see what you are referring to.

The Husqvana video cleared up some other stuff too that will make me better overall.

 

[Fred Wright]

However ya do it, you're safer when standing on terra firma. Scaffolding, loader bucket, even a high reach can be dangerous because you have no escape route.

 

[FaithfulWoodsman]

I agree with most. I would first notch the heavy leaner on the left away from the other trunk, as it appears to want to fall in that direction. Then unzip them. Depending on how much wood is left after separation, notching the left one afterwards could be tricky. That being said, separating them with a notch in the leaner could cause it to fall once free. Be careful. Once they are separate, with a notch in place, plunge cut, then release cut. Good PPE is a must. EAB ash trees are notorious limb droppers.

 

[FaithfulWoodsman]

What region of Ohio are you in?

 

[Aranyic]

What region of Ohio are you in?

I'm in Piqua it's about 30 miles north of dayton on 75.

 

[peakbagger]

I did a plunge cut the other weekend on big white birch. It looked perfect but I managed to bind the bar when it fully plunged. I still had a good center hinge and wood at the back of the tree wood but still had to unbolt the bar and the chain then take a few chops with my Fishkars maul. All I can guess was the tree twisted a bit. The tree dropped and I bolted back on the bar and went to cutting.

Moral of the story, cuts can still go weird on occasion but a good plunge cut give you plenty of time to fell a tree. It doesn't go down until you want it to.

EAB hasn't hit up in northern NH and luckily ash is mostly in the minority but anytime a tree is standing dead I make sure to wear my helmet and keep a good eye out for dead branches.

 

[English BoB]

Before you zip down the seam, clean the crotch of all debris to save your chain. Its amazing what can collect there.

bob

 

[Jason763]

Before you zip down the seam, clean the crotch of all debris to save your chain. Its amazing what can collect there.

bob

X2

 

[woodhog73]

I'd climb it and chunk pieces down on one side. Then drop the other. That's the safest process to getting that tree on the ground.

However I work for a tree service and have the means to do that.

The crotch is too high to safely work above the crotch and make 2 notches. Do not use ladders way too unsafe no matter how tempting it may be

If your dropping both treat as 2 separate trees.

If you must drop as one tree, use a rope and a truck or a 3 or 4 way pully with a few guys pulling. Notch and cut low. Very low as in a few inches off the ground.
I would not bore cut that, instead I would back cut. The center where the 2 trees come together could be compromised last thing you want is a bore cut to the center compromising what little holding wood you might have . If you bore cut and swivel around to complete you back cut you are by default cutting out deeper wood first. Instead do a traditional back cut. You need to rope it in my opinion because of the chance of your holding wood being compromised due to the trees center integrity, so use a truck pulling on the rope, a back cut, it should hopefully start to fall before having any issues with the center where the 2 trees meet.

Still taking as 2 trees is safer

 

[FaithfulWoodsman]

I'm in Piqua it's about 30 miles north of dayton on 75.

Ok that's about 1.5 hrs West of me in centerburg.

 

[Aranyic]

It's a little breezy here today and tomorrow then rain Thursday. Saturday is showing 60 degrees, sunny and calm right now. If that holds I'll get out and work that day and let you all know how I do.

 

[lost in the woods]

always bore cut your trees if possible! just be careful of kickback and make sure your sawchain is sharp. just like the Husqvarna video said- when you bore cut, you are setting the hinge 1st and then you can ''release'' the tree when you want to at the back some guys I work with call that a ''trigger'' your make your notch, set the hinge then cut towards the back until theres a little wood left. then you can pull your saw out of the tree and make one final check of everything before you cut that last piece (trigger) off. safest way to fell trees . otherwise if you come in from the back, you aren't setting your hinge till the very end, and on leaning trees the weight of the tree may overcome the strength of the wood you have yet to cut to properly set the hinge. . . ash is especially bad for this b/c of the straight grain and when a tree is dead the wood is more brittle b/c theres way less moisture . . . . hope this info helps and BE SAFE

 

[woodhog73]

always bore cut your trees if possible! just be careful of kickback and make sure your sawchain is sharp. just like the Husqvarna video said- when you bore cut, you are setting the hinge 1st and then you can ''release'' the tree when you want to at the back some guys I work with call that a ''trigger'' your make your notch, set the hinge then cut towards the back until theres a little wood left. then you can pull your saw out of the tree and make one final check of everything before you cut that last piece (trigger) off. safest way to fell trees . otherwise if you come in from the back, you aren't setting your hinge till the very end, and on leaning trees the weight of the tree may overcome the strength of the wood you have yet to cut to properly set the hinge. . . ash is especially bad for this b/c of the straight grain and when a tree is dead the wood is more brittle b/c theres way less moisture . . . . hope this info helps and BE SAFE

I have to disagree on the part about always bore cutting.

The trigger cut as you described is 100 percent true on leaners. Bore cut through the center, establish your hinge wood and keep it wide on heavy leaners, and back cut, towards the tension side of the trunk. Leave a small trigger or " strap " of wood and then cut that last. It prevents the trunk splitting up the center on heavy leaners, creating a barber chair and a dangerous situation. On a heavy leaner ( leaning enough to require a trigger cut) the trees always going to fall in the direction it's leaning, obviously.

On a non leaner, However you can have some minor influence on the direction of a fall with a traditional backcut. Sure the felling notch is the true means for controlling the direction, but to some small extent you can control this with your back cut and some wedges. There are plenty of felling scenarios where a bore cut through the center is not the " safest " or most " efficient" means of dropping standing timber.

I do bore cut a lot when faced with a 40 inch diameter tree and I'm too lazy to go put a bigger bar on my saw. On a straight tree like this I'll bore cut on the side , towards the center to establish my hinge wood, pull out the bar a bit, and swivel around to the other side pivoting the tip of my bar and completing my back cut from one side of the hinge to the other. Not safe on heavy leaners. Perfectly fine on straight timber .

Different techniques for different scenarios.

Just my opinion from years of felling timber some of it in a production environment ( although I mostly just cut fire wood these days and some part time residential tree work I have logged in the past and this is just my opinion ) . When I'm working in the woods I use both methods but not one exclusively all the time.

 

[lost in the woods]

I bore cut 90% of the time and I think I understand what you are saying about controlling with the backcut (hinge width changing from one side of the tree to the other?) but if I need to do that I just do like you said- bore cut from one side so far, then come in from the other side and slap your wedges in if need be. . . then finish around the back wherever it is safe. . . you are totally right every situation is different. . . I guess the bore cutting just got drilled into my head from forestry school/ SFI training

 

[woodhog73]

I bore cut a vast majority of the time. Just not all the time. Lots of variables.

Atleast you have had formal training. That's always a good thing . I just learned from years of tree felling. I've made my fair share of mistakes over the years. Nowadays I consider myself a fairly competent and efficient feller but I didn't start out that way.

I remember the 1st tree I dropped that went wrong. I had probably 100 trees under my belt by this point. This was years ago. Soft pine very tall tree. Very Slight lean to the left and I mean slight . House next to it. Still lots of counter weight up high going against the direction on the lean. Had cut many a hard wood like this with no problems the hinge always held out and the counter weight up high kept the tree straight. Not so with this pine. Hinge broke as tree started to fall. No damage, missed the house . But I was not happy.

Lots of variables including tree species and many others.

 

[baseroom]

Anyone know where to find those videos on bore cutting?

 

[D8Chumley]

Anyone know where to find those videos on bore cutting?

I watched several on YouTube

 

[Aranyic]

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Probably the most complete video I have found.