Fire Chief or Shelter EPA stoves feedback

[brenndatomu]

Hey @Mrpelletburner , do you have any really large splits? I wonder how it would do with large wood instead of what you have been burning...I know for me, when I was running a furnace that was susceptible to these back puffs, loading small wood on hot coals was a pretty reliable recipe for more backpuffs.

 

[Medic21]

Anything under 250 or so is gonna cause buildup...unless it is at the end of the fire when everything is burning out.
But even with higher temps, if the fire is as smoky as was in the video you had the other day with holding the baro door open...you are gonna have creosote buildup.
But I really think the low flue temps and the smoke go hand in hand...the fire is choked out and then smolders away...makes tons of smoke and low flue temps...until the next BOOM.

100%

I think the difference in operation between us is I let it heat up the house a lot longer so when it's cycling the inducer the fuel is burnt down to that coal stage. I then load when the temp drops a couple degrees in the house. It sucks on days like today because if I want to have a fire I have to open windows or I will be 80 degrees in the house. The best days are near zero or below. It runs constantly and I load every 4-6 hours and it's 75 in the house.

I have had some luck as suggested here building a smaller fire a couple times of day and burning them hot till nothing but coals are left then repeating when it cools down.

Also, I do think it was you that suggested adjusting the on and off temps for the circulation blower lower and that has helped tremendously in extending the time it produces heat. On at 140 and off at 90. Thermal limit has stayed at 200 and as hot as I have gotten it never kicked it out.

 

[Medic21]

That's it right there...you opened up the air...fire not being starved.
How far open is your damper usually?

1/4-3/8

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Hey @Mrpelletburner , do you have any really large splits? I wonder how it would do with large wood instead of what you have been burning...I know for me, when I was running a furnace that was susceptible to these back puffs, loading small wood on hot coals was a pretty reliable recipe for more backpuffs.

Yes.. the couple times I tried to burn really large splits they just wouldn't produce the same heat output. Would be an unburned split when reloading.

The only time I have split to use smaller splits is when starting cold.

 

[Medic21]

The only times I have ever gotten a puff is with the blower off.

 

[Medic21]

@Mrpelletburner when I first fire or load I get a continuous 30-45 min of the circulation blower running then it's on every couple min for a couple min after that for a couple hours. Then increases the time in between running for a couple hours.

How long and how often is yours running.

 

[brenndatomu]

1/4-3/8

Really?! That just blows my mind...

 

[brenndatomu]

I think the difference in operation between us is I let it heat up the house a lot longer so when it's cycling the inducer the fuel is burnt down to that coal stage. I then load when the temp drops a couple degrees in the house.

There was a rep from SBI that used to be on here...I remember him saying that one thing people need to get used to with wood heat is not being able to control it to +/- .5 degrees like with fossil fueled furnaces...gotta let the heat cycle cycle. Let the house temp drop a few degrees and then you can let 'er rip. The only way to get "low and slow" is to go with a cat stove...

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Also, I do think it was you that suggested adjusting the on and off temps for the circulation blower lower and that has helped tremendously in extending the time it produces heat. On at 140 and off at 90. Thermal limit has stayed at 200 and as hot as I have gotten it never kicked it out.

Believe this is why HY-C suggested I move my stove further away from the rear wall. The blower draws in cooler air from the concrete wall ~67 degrees which can prematurely cool down the air in the plenum, which cools down the stove faster. Therefore I was planing this weekend on rotating my stove 90degs so the stove draws open air.

 

[Medic21]

Really?! That just blows my mind...

When I fire or load I leave the door and ash door open for a good 20-30 min as long as the flue does not spike over 1000. The inducer is running and I shut the doors. I watch and see where the flue drops to, target is 500-600 for me. The only time I adjust the door is if it's above 600 because I feel I'm wasting heat. I make sure the temp is set at about 75 or 76. When it finally shuts off I drop the thermostat to 74 and go reload at 71 in the house. The inducer cycles for 60-90 min with calls for heat then runs continuously for a few hours before I repeat. I would prefer just loading and walking away like my old one.

If I try to keep the house cooler it will sit and smolder and puff. I'm more dictated by the firebox conditions than the house temp.

 

[brenndatomu]

Believe this is why HY-C suggested I move my stove further away from the rear wall. The blower draws in cooler air from the concrete wall ~67 degrees which can prematurely cool down the air in the plenum, which cools down the stove faster. Therefore I was planing this weekend on rotating my stove 90degs so the stove draws open air.

After you get your new temp monitor and can closely track the flue temp, you will find that the house circ blower kicking on/off has only a little affect on the flue temp, and almost zero on firebox temp.

 

[Medic21]

Believe this is why HY-C suggested I move my stove further away from the rear wall. The blower draws in cooler air from the concrete wall ~67 degrees which can prematurely cool down the air in the plenum, which cools down the stove faster. Therefore I was planing this weekend on rotating my stove 90degs so the stove draws open air.

That is exactly how mine is. In fact on cold days I'm pulling 50 degree air into it. My basement this morning was 50 degrees. Since I didn't burn last night. House was 72 just from the solar heating yesterday afternoon.

 

[brenndatomu]

Has is ever back-farted when the flue temp was high @Mrpelletburner ? Like say over 400*...

 

[Mrpelletburner]

When I fire or load I leave the door and ash door open for a good 20-30 min as long as the flue does not spike over 1000. The inducer is running and I shut the doors. I watch and see where the flue drops to, target is 500-600 for me. The only time I adjust the door is if it's above 600 because I feel I'm wasting heat.

Same as how I load the stove

I make sure the temp is set at about 75 or 76.

Have mine set at 73, draft blower, if off kicks in at 74.

I would prefer just loading and walking away like my old one.

What was your old stove? Would you still go back?

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Has is ever back-farted when the flue temp was high @Mrpelletburner ? Like say over 400*...

Nope... stove surface temp is always around 500, flue temp either 200 or below.

 

[Medic21]

What was your old stove? Would you still go back?

Juca wood furnace.

Hell no, I have used 1/3 the amount of wood of a much colder winter this year. I had to load that thing 4 times between coming home from work and the next morning. It was the most inefficient thing I have ever used.

 

[brenndatomu]

Therefore I was planing this weekend on rotating my stove 90degs so the stove draws open air.

Another advantage to doing this will be getting rid of one of those 90* elbows...90s never help things work better when you have a problem stove...may not be causing the problem, but sure don't help anything...most MFGs will tell you to use only 45s when at all possible. When you are moving things...would it be possible to eliminate both 90s? Even if you have to use (2) 45s to replace one 90, that is still preferable. (if its done correctly)

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Should be able to

 

[Mrpelletburner]

New duct in place. Would be out of ideas if this doesn’t work.

 

[brenndatomu]

New duct in place. Would be out of ideas if this doesn’t work.

View attachment 224546

Crossing my fingers and toes for ya here!
On another note...I was at the Local Menards (again ) Friday evening and they had the Shelter version of this unit on display...I took the opportunity to stick my head in the thing and have a gander...man these things are sooooo simple! I mean I kinda already had that feeling from all @Mrpelletburner s pics/vids and info...but I'm here to tell you, they really are that simple! There is VERY little there that distinguishes these from the previous models...pretty much just 1 secondary air tube.
I can't believe they got 'em to pass the 2017 EPA regs! Apparently this test isn't really that difficult to pass!

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Well all hooked up and burning! Besides the new configuration I added 4 thermocouples to measure flue temps, inside the fire box, plenum and intake air at the filter.

T1 flue
T2 plenum
T3 air at filter
T4 fire box

 

[Mrpelletburner]

And the smoke from the chimney.

 

[brenndatomu]

And the smoke from the chimney.

Kinda hard to tell from that close up shot...is that just steam or smoke there?

HY-C should be putting you on their payroll...I think you've done more R n D, and with more sophisticated instruments than they did!

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Loaded at 3:30am, at 5:30am the stove finally kicked in... (actually had to crack the door open for a minute to feed it some air). However after that minute... stove took off like a rocket.

T1 Flue
T4 inside top left corner of the fire box

 

[maple1]

That's way hot for my comfort level.

Not sure I'm grasping what the 2 hour gap is either. Did it smoulder for 2 hours before it really took off?