Fireplace face nightmare

[garrett61]

hi
I have been reading the forums for some time now and decided to join up and share my recent problem in hope for some advice... I recently purchased a home (saltbox colonial style 1400 sq ft) we are in the middle of a living room remodel, upon taking the old drywall down the brick face started falling apart several bricks came off all together. the brick wall is not supported at all and appears to be free standing, the hearth is also loose brick but is installed on a solid concrete slab. I would like to repair this brick face so i can get a wood insert installed.

Pics.

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/glassmaster/fire001.jpg

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/glassmaster/fire002.jpg

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/glassmaster/fire003.jpg

 

[garrett61]

Does anyone have any insight or advice on this? I really need some help on this oil prices will put us into foreclusure this winter!

 

[edthedawg]

Contact a mason and look into either rebuilding or repointing? I've been surprised at how affordable both of my masons are for work like this. I can't see your pix from work (firewalled) but any deteriorating brick wall typically requires fresh mortar and rebuilding like this. If it's a loadbearing wall you just want to get some posts and take the load off, then rebuild, let the mortar cure, and then reintroduce the load to the wall.

I haven't been tempted to try repointing any brickwork - I just have my guys come over and fix it up. One is my neighbor - he shored up a gaping hole in the fieldstone foundation on a couple hours notice for a hundred bucks one weekend when we took a porch timber out and the wall came crumbling with it. He repointed entire walls inside the basement for $100 at a time. His exterior (foundation) brickwork has held up for going on 10 years now and I think it cost only a few hundred bucks to have every crack and loose brick on the exterior taken care of, including a big area that fell out entirely...

Hope this helps!

 

[myzamboni]

Looks like a pre-fab fireplace with a brick facade put up in front. I don't remember what the rules are for putting an insert into a pre-fab fireplace, but you might want to search around.

 

[gpcollen1]

Looks like a pre-fab fireplace with a brick facade put up in front. I don't remember what the rules are for putting an insert into a pre-fab fireplace, but you might want to search around.

It does??

Looks to me like they just did a very chitty job of finishing off the front of that fireplace. You do need to inpect it/have it inspected to make sure it is in good shape and you can run a stove in there. Then you will have to fill in some of that void and redo the front/top/mantle. I would knock the top off that row and just do a brick mantle right there.

 

[struggle]

Tear it all out and install a freestanding woodstove. It would seem like that would be cheaper.

 

[garrett61]

Thank you for all the replies on this, the whole house was "hacked" I have remodled everything in the home and this was the last room.. go figure we run into this.

I have laid patios walkwaysand slabs so ido have some knowledge with brick work. I wouldnt mind tearing it our for any type of wood stove or insert i just want it safe and looking nice.

I had 2 different chimney sweeps look at the setup and they recommended a liner for any insert or stove other wise no cracks and it looked ok.
This is a double flue chimney one for oil burner one for the fireplace.

My other concern's

where to find the correct strapping to secure the wall?

Is that normal to have such a large airspace behind the brick wall?

My main concern is the wall structural to the chimney or can i take it down and replace/repair the brick face correctly?

Thank you again for all the input so far

I will post more pictures of it tonight for a better look.

 

[elmoleaf]

The brick face is decorative. The builder should've used some masonry anchors in the mortar beds every 8 courses or so to secure the decorative brick facing to the masonry behind. You don't need to tear it all out. Just add some anchors in the mortar bed below the replacement bricks.

When you rebuild, make sure you look up inside the fireplace at the bottom of the steel lintel. There should be no gaps between the steel lintel and the firebrick of the fireplace. A gap allows smoke into the air space between the decorative brick front and the actual masonry behind it. If there's a gap, seal it up with refractory cement. Such a gap could be what's caused the top wood in your photo to looked charred or smoke stained in spots.

 

[garrett61]

wow after looking at the inside of this fireplace i found the lentil slightly open i would say... have a look.

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/glassmaster/oct2008001.jpg

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/glassmaster/oct2008002.jpg

I will be fixing this wall and supporting.

Should that large void behind the wall be fixed?

I plan on going over the brick with tile or granite.anyone have a good product recommendation to clean the brick face so i can do the point work and go over with thin set?

thanks again for all of the support thus far!

 

[garrett61]

hey,
should i size down the pictrues on future posts or will these be ok?

 

[garrett61]

afterreading on the BIA site i dont see anything other than a 1" space at the fire box. is there any truth to a 2" gap between the framing and fireplace face(masonry)?

 

[garrett61]

Hi all,
I have repaired the brick face and tied the wall into the framing leaving a 1 inch air gap. I also repaired all the chips anc mortar in the firebox, re packed the lentil and cleaned the brick up. I appreciate all the replies and help after days of reading it all paid off.

I have 1 question left that is stumping me... i look to the experts for help on this one.

I would like to now tile over the face and hearth. my plan is to put up backer board and lay the tile with modified thin set. My question is when i start the hearth it will obviously make the height different than the fire box... do you place backer board in the fire box to level it out? I am having a regency wood insert put in the fireplace next week.

thanks in advance!

 

[oconnor]

Run it level all the way back otherwise you will have some issues with the stove fit. I assume you are reffering to a cement board non combustible product as backer board.

When we did mine the installer used a steel mesh tapconned to the brick and ran his cement onto that instead of a board. We weren't tiling it, but the idea of having a strong bond to the surface remains. You could do the same and set your tiles in it. Check out the install below if you wish.

 

[garrett61]

Wow thanks for the fast reply connor. Yes i am talking about cement board, i still would be off level unless i tile all the way into the fireplace. Would just tapcon screms hold the cement board ok in the firebox?

 

[oconnor]

In the firebox I would use a cement pour instead of the cement board - Let gravity level it out for you.

I don't know what else other than Tapcons you could use to hold the board in place - can't use glues/adhesives given they are combustibles. I was more thinking of metal lathe over the whole thing and parging the surface smooth in prep for the tile.

 

[garrett61]

that sounds like a much better idea given my time frame i may prepare more and do this in the summer. I can see something happening the new house has been "one of those projects" The insert should come out and re install pretty easily i would think ill wait a winter and study a bit