First Stove for Supplemental/Back Up Heat Source

[swbco]

Hello to all,
I am new to wood burning and this forum. I could use some advice on the right first stove for our circumstances. I’m looking especially for something simple (not a lot of moving parts), reliable, efficient, high quality, and properly sized for our needs.

Here’s the background. Our house is a 24-year-old, 2200 sq ft rancher. When the house was built, we intended to put in a wood stove, so we had a wood stove chimney installed (through the roof) during construction. We tiled a 49.5” x 51” space under the chimney, but we never put in a stove. (Please see pictures of stove area.) A chair sits under the chimney now. At various times we thought about installing a pellet stove (the space has an electrical outlet), but I don’t like all the moving parts and the idea of an inoperative stove during a power outage. Ambience is also a factor. More importantly, I want to learn the skill of building and tending a fire.

The stove will be a supplemental, not primary, heat source, as well as insurance against power outages. It will sit next to an interior wall in a 425 sq ft living room/dining room space. Connected to this space via a large entry is a 225 sq ft kitchen. On the other side of the kitchen (and behind the garage) is a 240 sq ft utility room. Right next to the stove area is a standard entry into a 150 sq ft den. All together these four spaces are a little over 1000 sq ft. This “wing” is what I most want to be able to heat. (Please see the picture of the floor plan – the red ‘X’ marks the stove location.) Ceilings are 8 feet throughout the house.
Three bedrooms and two bathrooms are down a hallway on the other side of the house. Given their distance from the stove, I’m not sure how realistic it is to expect that those rooms would benefit much from the stove. In any case, and because it is supplemental heat, I don’t want to “oversize” a stove just to hit the bedrooms – unless you all think I am looking at that incorrectly.

Dealers in my area (southern Colorado) carry VC, Quadra-Fire, Morso, Lopi, Jotul, Pacific Energy, and Hearthstone. I am a little overwhelmed by the choices and various sizes and would like to be better informed before I go further.

I very much appreciate your experience, insights, and guidance.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Ok, your stove location is pretty good! Your bedrooms probably will not get much heat without a little help from fans. If you're looking for simplicity, I'd look for a non cat stove. For sizing, I'd look for something in the 1.5-2 cubic foot firebox size. The smaller end of that if you just want the occasional fire for some ambiance and the higher end of that if you think you might get hooked on burning wood and want to try full time heating with wood.

Getting the wood set aside and drying will be important to having a good burning experience. Most firewood sellers do not sell wood that is dry enough. It needs to be set aside in the sun and wind for a bit so the water will leave.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Couple things. 1 you could use a duct booster fan in the ceiling of the stove room to pull the heat out and move it to the bedrooms via flex duct in the attic. The bedrooms aren't going to get a ton of heat. That being said most people like it cooler in the bedrooms anyway.

To me it doesn't really matter if you not a full time burner. You still need a big enough stove to heat the house when nothing else is available.

If your looking for a stove Id look at the lopi.. I like them.. Good basic stove.

 

[swbco]

Couple things. 1 you could use a duct booster fan in the ceiling of the stove room to pull the heat out and move it to the bedrooms via flex duct in the attic. The bedrooms aren't going to get a ton of heat. That being said most people like it cooler in the bedrooms anyway.

To me it doesn't really matter if you not a full time burner. You still need a big enough stove to heat the house when nothing else is available.

If your looking for a stove Id look at the lopi.. I like them.. Good basic stove.

 

[swbco]

Thank you for the response. Your take on sizing gives food for thought. I had not heard of a duct booster fan. I'll take a look at that, although you are right -- we do prefer cooler bedrooms

I'll look at the Lopi stoves, especially as I have heard and read god things about them. I'm looking at steel over cast iron for durability and cost reasons. Do you have thoughts on one versus the other?

 

[swbco]

Ok, your stove location is pretty good! Your bedrooms probably will not get much heat without a little help from fans. If you're looking for simplicity, I'd look for a non cat stove. For sizing, I'd look for something in the 1.5-2 cubic foot firebox size. The smaller end of that if you just want the occasional fire for some ambiance and the higher end of that if you think you might get hooked on burning wood and want to try full time heating with wood.

Getting the wood set aside and drying will be important to having a good burning experience. Most firewood sellers do not sell wood that is dry enough. It needs to be set aside in the sun and wind for a bit so the water will leave.

Thank you -- your guidance on firebox size is very helpful. I'll use that as a starting point. I also appreciate the advice on wood. That's the one thing I see over and over. I'm working on wood now, even before buying a stove. The good news is that we have plenty of sun and wind.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Thank you for the response. Your take on sizing gives food for thought. I had not heard of a duct booster fan. I'll take a look at that, although you are right -- we do prefer cooler bedrooms

I'll look at the Lopi stoves, especially as I have heard and read god things about them. I'm looking at steel over cast iron for durability and cost reasons. Do you have thoughts on one versus the other?

Me personally my stove is a cast-iron catalytic.. I heat primarily with wood.. I know you think that you may only burn occasionally. I thought the same.. It quickly became 24-7.. the heat is just that good.. If you purchase a decent stove it becomes really easy to do.. The main thing is get a stove big enough that you dont need to reload super often.. The stoves in my category burn 10 hours or more.. I've gotten as much as 16 hours..
Basically.. l get the stove going.. load it up before bed.. turn the air all the way back.. wake up in the morning.. the stoves still running.. drop more wood in it.. go to work.. come home.. stoves still running.. drop more wood in it.. kinda thing

If your getting a stove.. get dry wood.. you should already have a supply.. if you dont.. dont wait to long.. get bio bricks

 

[crstrode]

As a kid in the 1960s, weekends were spent cutting wood to heat our circa 1880 farmhouse equipped with fireplaces and free-standing woodstoves. The house was so big and drafty it was not uncommon to go through a mixed cord of oak and Douglas fir each week in the dead of winter. The stoves were big and old and messy and blazing hot - so hot that they would glow cherry red at times.

In more recent times a newer house with a Heatilator fireplace was akin to modern science, in that it reduced wood consumption an amazing degree. A pellet stove was a similar eye-opener in the ease of operation for a very high efficiency and neat clean operation.

A few years ago we bought a 1950s vintage house with an old Blaze King catalytic insert in the basement. I was always of the opinion that catalytic stoves were merely hokum and not worth the effort. Even though I didn't yet know how to properly operate this Blaze King, it proved itself during a 2-week power outage one winter. I was able to get a fire going in this basement insert, load up two or three Presto-Logs and it would burn all night and keep the house warm without attention for the better part of a day.

Now, in my current house, a Blaze King Sirocco insert was installed three years ago in the basement. It was intended to be a source of backup heat and ambience just as you described. It is clean and easy to operate. It will run for a very long time and produce a respectable amount of heat for the better part of a day without much attention. Packed full it will still be hot enough so no kindling is needed for a reload - even after 18 hours of operation - and this is with a relatively small firebox.

If the desire is for visual ambience, the draft can be opened up for dancing flames. However, it is the ambience of a cozy warm fire that my wife finds appealing. After all, when warming one's backside at the hearth, the flames cannot be seen anyway.

I am sold on Blaze King wood stoves. They might do well for you too.

Be sure to verify the height of your chimney. Catalytic stoves generally work best if minimum height requirements are met or exceeded.

 

[begreen]

Check 2 cu ft stoves. The PE Super, Lopi Endeavor, Quad 3100 will get the job done. There is one caveat, what altitude is this at? Ranch homes can often have short chimney systems. The Lopi and Quad are going to want a 15-16' tall flue system if straight up... before compensating for the thinner air. If the flue system will end up being 15 ft or less, then the PE Super, or a Regency 2450, or Osborn 2000 will work better if this is the case. They are a bit less draft-sensitive. Note that any elbows will add draft resistance and therefore more chimney height.

 

[EbS-P]

I’d get the pacific energy T5 (they have several stove in that size m. Really any stove 2-2.5 cu ft would sized about right. Jotul F45 would be another good choice Lopi makes a good stove too.

 

[swbco]

Me personally my stove is a cast-iron catalytic.. I heat primarily with wood.. I know you think that you may only burn occasionally. I thought the same.. It quickly became 24-7.. the heat is just that good.. If you purchase a decent stove it becomes really easy to do.. The main thing is get a stove big enough that you dont need to reload super often.. The stoves in my category burn 10 hours or more.. I've gotten as much as 16 hours..
Basically.. l get the stove going.. load it up before bed.. turn the air all the way back.. wake up in the morning.. the stoves still running.. drop more wood in it.. go to work.. come home.. stoves still running.. drop more wood in it.. kinda thing

If your getting a stove.. get dry wood.. you should already have a supply.. if you dont.. dont wait to long.. get bio bricks

You and another thread I read here about Lopi Answer vs. Lopi Endeavor have really got me thinking now that it's better to be a little oversized than little undersized. I've been worried about overheating, but I'm starting to understand that learning how to load the stove and manage the burn can can mitigate that. And having the extra size "just in case" is a good thing. This is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. Thanks very much for that. (And message received on the wood - thanks.)

 

[swbco]

I’d get the pacific energy T5 (they have several stove in that size m. Really any stove 2-2.5 cu ft would sized about right. Jotul F45 would be another good choice Lopi makes a good stove too.

I believe dealers in my area carry all three. I'll take a look. Thanks also for your take on the correct sizing. All of you are helping me to dial in that piece. Much appreciated.

 

[swbco]

As a kid in the 1960s, weekends were spent cutting wood to heat our circa 1880 farmhouse equipped with fireplaces and free-standing woodstoves. The house was so big and drafty it was not uncommon to go through a mixed cord of oak and Douglas fir each week in the dead of winter. The stoves were big and old and messy and blazing hot - so hot that they would glow cherry red at times.

In more recent times a newer house with a Heatilator fireplace was akin to modern science, in that it reduced wood consumption an amazing degree. A pellet stove was a similar eye-opener in the ease of operation for a very high efficiency and neat clean operation.

A few years ago we bought a 1950s vintage house with an old Blaze King catalytic insert in the basement. I was always of the opinion that catalytic stoves were merely hokum and not worth the effort. Even though I didn't yet know how to properly operate this Blaze King, it proved itself during a 2-week power outage one winter. I was able to get a fire going in this basement insert, load up two or three Presto-Logs and it would burn all night and keep the house warm without attention for the better part of a day.

Now, in my current house, a Blaze King Sirocco insert was installed three years ago in the basement. It was intended to be a source of backup heat and ambience just as you described. It is clean and easy to operate. It will run for a very long time and produce a respectable amount of heat for the better part of a day without much attention. Packed full it will still be hot enough so no kindling is needed for a reload - even after 18 hours of operation - and this is with a relatively small firebox.

If the desire is for visual ambience, the draft can be opened up for dancing flames. However, it is the ambience of a cozy warm fire that my wife finds appealing. After all, when warming one's backside at the hearth, the flames cannot be seen anyway.

I am sold on Blaze King wood stoves. They might do well for you too.

Be sure to verify the height of your chimney. Catalytic stoves generally work best if minimum height requirements are met or exceeded.

Thank you for your response. Sounds like you've done you share of wood burning. I appreciate your expertise and the reminder on the chimney height. I'm learning new stuff every time I come here.

 

[swbco]

Check 2 cu ft stoves. The PE Super, Lopi Endeavor, Quad 3100 will get the job done. There is one caveat, what altitude is this at? Ranch homes can often have short chimney systems. The Lopi and Quad are going to want a 15-16' tall flue system if straight up... before compensating for the thinner air. If the flue system will end up being 15 ft or less, then the PE Super, or a Regency 2450, or Osborn 2000 will work better if this is the case. They are a bit less draft-sensitive. Note that any elbows will add draft resistance and therefore more chimney height.

I'm not in the mountains -- I'm on the prairie right next to the mountains. Elevation is just a shade over 5000 ft. Do you know if there is a resource that recommends the heights for flue systems based on altitude? The impact of thinner air never occurred to me.

Probably a stupid question, but you know what they say about stupid questions...when considering the height of the flue system, does the measurement start from the stove top or some point farther up?

Thanks for the education and the stove recommendations. I have to tell you, this forum is excellent. A lot of people who know their stuff and are willing to share. I've learned a ton just today. Thank you to all of you.

 

[EbS-P]

I believe dealers in my area carry all three. I'll take a look. Thanks also for your take on the correct sizing. All of you are helping me to dial in that piece. Much appreciated.

Things to think about. How tall is the chimney? Where will get your wood. Where will you store it? Know you get your first 60 mph wind while the stove is running it will behave very differently.

 

[begreen]

I'm not in the mountains -- I'm on the prairie right next to the mountains. Elevation is just a shade over 5000 ft. Do you know if there is a resource that recommends the heights for flue systems based on altitude? The impact of thinner air never occurred to me.

Probably a stupid question, but you know what they say about stupid questions...when considering the height of the flue system, does the measurement start from the stove top or some point farther up?

Thanks for the education and the stove recommendations. I have to tell you, this forum is excellent. A lot of people who know their stuff and are willing to share. I've learned a ton just today. Thank you to all of you.

This chart by Regency will provide an estimation. At 5,000 ft with no elbows, they recommend adding 2.5 ft. as measured from the stovetop.

 

[Newbie78]

Figure out what size you need. Go one size bigger.

I'm with the 2.5 foot crowd...

Also, a N/S loading stove is better than an E/W loader. You won't have burning logs threatening to fall out the door with every full load. You need to be able to have the ability to load 16" wood (minimum) N/S, imo.

And as has been said, once you start to burn wood you will find a way to use it for primary heat. There's just no heat like it. A tiny firebox that needs wood every 2-3 hours during cold spells becomes old. Fast. That's what it was like for us with a 2 cube firebox in our northern alberta cold. The stove could easily heat the house, but the thing had to be fed frequently, which created a big coal bed and progressively less room for wood. The more iron the better. 450-500 pounds of steel will hold a lot more heat than 300-350 lbs.

I suggest something in the Drolet line, because we have been more than satisfied with both of ours. Their workmanship is excellent and their customer service is superlative.

 

[rijim]

How well insulated is your house should play into sizing; if average or below average, you will be better served by going a little larger. Of the brands you listed PE has some great reviews by owners that would be hard to ignore; it may come down to availability at this point in the season.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Steel vs cast iron iron...

Both work.

Given your location, you may want to look at steel stoves that are covered in cast iron. Reason being your stove is going to stick out into the room's traffic areas. Bumping into a 600F steel stove could leave a lasting impression. The cladding turns a radiant steel stove into a more convection based stove. The outside skin is cooler.

 

[swbco]

Things to think about. How tall is the chimney? Where will get your wood. Where will you store it? Know you get your first 60 mph wind while the stove is running it will behave very differently.

Thanks for giving me things to consider. I'm hearing a lot on the importance of the chimney height. I'll measure what I've got before deciding on a stove to make sure it's optimal. I have a line on a couple of wood sources. I have a little acreage, so plenty of room for a wood pile but do need to think about optimal location. The truth is, I may get wood before the stove. Even if I get the stove soon, I'm not planning on burning wood in it until I'm sure the wood is dry -- as measured by me, not a seller.

 

[swbco]

Steel vs cast iron iron...

Both work.

Given your location, you may want to look at steel stoves that are covered in cast iron. Reason being your stove is going to stick out into the room's traffic areas. Bumping into a 600F steel stove could leave a lasting impression. The cladding turns a radiant steel stove into a more convection based stove. The outside skin is cooler.

Okay -- is the Jotul F45 and example of that kind of stove? Any manufacturers I should be looking at for something like that? I will say that we have a big oversized chair sitting in that space now. Not great for traffic flow, but we're conditioned to navigating around it. Getting more and more excited about actually having a stove in that space. It will be a huge improvement. Thanks for the thought.

 

[swbco]

How well insulated is your house should play into sizing; if average or below average, you will be better served by going a little larger. Of the brands you listed PE has some great reviews by owners that would be hard to ignore; it may come down to availability at this point in the season.

We are well insulated, but a little larger is making sense to me now for many reasons. I'll definitely give the PEs a look. I won't rush a purchase until I feel like I've done the homework and have a good feel for what's available and what meets our needs. Something I've wondered about is the best time of year to buy a new stove. I can see the price on used stoves going up just before it starts to get cold. Not sure if that's the case for new stoves or not. I'm sure it's covered somewhere in this forum. I'll see what I can find. I appreciate your feedback.

 

[swbco]

Figure out what size you need. Go one size bigger.

I'm with the 2.5 foot crowd...

Also, a N/S loading stove is better than an E/W loader. You won't have burning logs threatening to fall out the door with every full load. You need to be able to have the ability to load 16" wood (minimum) N/S, imo.

And as has been said, once you start to burn wood you will find a way to use it for primary heat. There's just no heat like it. A tiny firebox that needs wood every 2-3 hours during cold spells becomes old. Fast. That's what it was like for us with a 2 cube firebox in our northern alberta cold. The stove could easily heat the house, but the thing had to be fed frequently, which created a big coal bed and progressively less room for wood. The more iron the better. 450-500 pounds of steel will hold a lot more heat than 300-350 lbs.

I suggest something in the Drolet line, because we have been more than satisfied with both of ours. Their workmanship is excellent and their customer service is superlative.

Thank you. You "2.5ers" are winning me over. Everything you and others say makes a lot of sense. I'll look at the Drolets. None of the dealers around here carry them, but I'm not adverse to taking a drive to look at one.

 

[swbco]

This chart by Regency will provide an estimation. At 5,000 ft with no elbows, they recommend adding 2.5 ft. as measured from the stovetop.

View attachment 318052

Thank you. Very helpful.

 

[begreen]

Thank you. You "2.5ers" are winning me over. Everything you and others say makes a lot of sense. I'll look at the Drolets. None of the dealers around here carry them, but I'm not adverse to taking a drive to look at one.

It may be easier to see an Osburn 2000. Same firebox with stouter baffle material and upgraded trim.