First time wood-stover... BK PE32; am I doing it right?

[rollercoasterracer]

First off, I want to say thank you to all who post helpful information. I know I'm a new registered user, but I have been reading these threads for over a year when I was doing research on what to buy. Since then, I've been reading a bunch trying to learn about our stove so I can do it better (I get fixated on new hobbies...). So, since this is a new hobby (and the primary heat to our house), I figured I should register.

This is our first wood-burning stove, so I'm trying to learn... if you see me doing anything stupid or see something I should be doing differently, I am all ears, I am here to learn. The wood we're currently burning are 'spin-outs' from a local mill (mostly larch). They're debarked, sat outside for over a year, then 2yrs ago I split it and stacked it and has been covered in our wood shed since. I do not know the MC%, but I am assuming it's plenty dry. We live in north Idaho @ 3,065' ASL (non of that good hard-wood).

We have a BK PE32 in our 30x40 'barndo.' It only has a second story/loft over about 1/3 of it, the rest is pretty open. I have a large fan directly above the stove. In hindsight that was poor placement... it forced me to do a 45* offset to go up with the flue. The stove was installed from the company we purchased it from and was inspected and signed off. It is single wall all the way up to the ceiling box then double/triple (not sure which) through the attic and out. From stove top to first 45* is 7' 6"; from 45* to 45* is 5' 6"; from stove top to ceiling is 12' 9"; from ceiling to top I believe is another roughly 8'.

Did I screw up getting single wall instead of double wall? The company originally was going to do double wall, but I requested single wall not realizing BK recommends double... I just assumed the company was trying to get more money. The stove is in the corner of a concrete wall, so I wasn't concerned with fire danger. My thought was to reclaim the heat from the flue before the cat was engaged, but now I'm starting to realize it may be dropping my flue temps too low when we burn on a lower setting, messing with the draft. We have found we can't turn the dial down very much at night before it just starts to drop to in-active... could that be my problem?

I was wondering what the best way to monitor temps would be... I was reading about the Condar gauges, I was thinking of replacing the OE BK cat probe with one and getting another for the flue. Would that be the best way to monitor?

Here are some pictures of one of our burns over about a 25min time period. The stove was set about 3/4 of the way open. Do these temps look ok?

I turned it up after this wide open and let it go for a bit, until I felt like it was getting a bit uncomfortably hot... I know BK did away with the numbers on the sweep, so I don't really know what to reference to make sure I'm within safe parameters. I'm assuming it's not good to let the gauge sweep all the way clockwise around back into the in-active zone, right?

Last night we burned it really hot for a while, we had stove top temps around 600*F and flue temps (at about 3' high) around 300*F. We did just clean the chimney about 2wks ago. We used the stove occasionally last winter while we were here working on the house or staying a couple of nights before me moved full time. This year we started burning in October, but not full time... lots of smaller shorter fires. The weather has been weird this year, so we haven't been burning 24/7 yet, maybe a couple days straight at a time. The flue was impressively clean when we cleaned it (at least I think it was, judging by a lot of pictures I've seen on here, but again... this is our first experience).

Thank you again to all of those that post helpful posts. It has been a wealth of knowledge and I enjoy reading the varying opinions and reasonings. If anyone has any insight or recommendations to get the most out of our stove safely (temps, gauges, monitoring, upgrades, etc) I would love to hear it. Time for me to sign off and get a fire going... wife is cold.

 

[stoveliker]

Yes, the single wall is not great.
Your 3000 ft above sea level also cuts a bit into draft. But you have 20 ft so this all may be a wash.

Don't change the cat probe. It's only meant to tell you when to engage the cat.

Flue temps are about double the wall temp for single wall. 500-600 gas temps.is okay, tho a bit warm. But maybe you need to run it as high to have enough output.

Don't measure stove top temps, they vary top much in location due to the cat being there, and in time due to burn mode fluctuating (cat heating up and cooling down).

The cat going crazy hot is normal for a new cat. It'll settle down after a cord or so (in my experience).

Does "not very low" mean you are cooking yourself out of the place?

If not,.and the stove is keeping you comfortable, keep things as they are...

 

[Highbeam]

I’ve read 10’ max for a single wall run. Single wall is cheaper and inferior for a BK especially.

The long run of single wall kills your draft because flue temps drop a lot as the gasses run up the stack. Shoot your IR gun at the pipe near the ceiling to see this effect. Your chimney sucks based on the difference between inside and outside temperature and height. As you cool the flue gasses they slow down so the suck is reduced.

Larch is great wood. I wish we had it here.

I agree with above that you can stop measuring stove top temp and that the oem BK gauge is fine. I would add a magnetic surface gauge for the flue. If you don’t mind the wires, the auber probe meter works great on my single wall stack.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I'm happy with my single-wall, but then again it's only about 6ft from my stovetop to where it enters the metal chimney (with a slight jog using two 30-degree elbows), so YMMV.

 

[rollercoasterracer]

Yes, the single wall is not great.
Your 3000 ft above sea level also cuts a bit into draft. But you have 20 ft so this all may be a wash.

Would it be worth changing to double wall or should I leave it unless there are draft issues?

Don't change the cat probe. It's only meant to tell you when to engage the cat.

I was thinking of swapping it with a Condar and marking where the 'active' zones are on the BK probe so I could kind of have both. Is that kind of a waste/dumb idea?

Flue temps are about double the wall temp for single wall. 500-600 gas temps.is okay, tho a bit warm. But maybe you need to run it as high to have enough output.

Oh that's good to know... I figured it was higher, but didn't realize it was that high. I rarely run it that hot, usually gets like that when it's blazing and the bypass is open.

Don't measure stove top temps, they vary top much in location due to the cat being there, and in time due to burn mode fluctuating (cat heating up and cooling down).

Good to know; I definitely noticed nothing but inconsistencies when I was trying to figure out the constants.

The cat going crazy hot is normal for a new cat. It'll settle down after a cord or so (in my experience).

Does "not very low" mean you are cooking yourself out of the place?

If not,.and the stove is keeping you comfortable, keep things as they are...

Thanks! I have noticed it's not as hyperactive as it was before, which is nice. By 'not very low' I mean about 1/2 way on the dial; anything less than that it just loses momentum and drops into in-active. It's working great, but just wondering if there is a way to get it to stoke down a little more without going out so we could have longer lower-temp burns for when we're away.

 

[rollercoasterracer]

I’ve read 10’ max for a single wall run. Single wall is cheaper and inferior for a BK especially.

The long run of single wall kills your draft because flue temps drop a lot as the gasses run up the stack. Shoot your IR gun at the pipe near the ceiling to see this effect. Your chimney sucks based on the difference between inside and outside temperature and height. As you cool the flue gasses they slow down so the suck is reduced.

That's unfortunate to hear... the dealer/installer didn't mention that. Should I start saving to swap to double wall? I did notice at the ceiling at times it's down to like 80*.

Larch is great wood. I wish we had it here.

I agree with above that you can stop measuring stove top temp and that the oem BK gauge is fine. I would add a magnetic surface gauge for the flue. If you don’t mind the wires, the auber probe meter works great on my single wall stack.

I don't mind wires, but I don't have power in that area just yet... we're going to build out the second story on the wall behind the stove, so I'll have it then. I'll have to look into the Auber, maybe get the magnetic surface gauge until then.

 

[rollercoasterracer]

I'm happy with my single-wall, but then again it's only about 6ft from my stovetop to where it enters the metal chimney (with a slight jog using two 30-degree elbows), so YMMV.

I'm not sure if it's functioning the way it should or not, or if it's efficiency is diminished because of it... this is my first wood stove, so I have absolutely nothing to base what I'm seeing off of. It seems to function well, but I feel like I'm missing some of the benefits by using single wall.

 

[stoveliker]

Would it be worth changing to double wall or should I leave it unless there are draft issues?

You can wait imo.

I was thinking of swapping it with a Condar and marking where the 'active' zones are on the BK probe so I could kind of have both. Is that kind of a waste/dumb idea?

A little, yes. The reason is that the cat will also fluctuate in temperature, based on what the load is doing (wood collapsing etc.) and what the thermostat is doing (it'll oscillate a bit sometimes before reaching some steady state air flow).
And the cat temp may be opposite as to what you expect; fire dying down and cat temp going up.
You can't regulate the stove based on this. That is what the thermostat is for.
It'll only confuzzle you.
Measure flue temps and know when to close the bypass (when cat is active). That's all that's needed.

Oh that's good to know... I figured it was higher, but didn't realize it was that high. I rarely run it that hot, usually gets like that when it's blazing and the bypass is open.

I hope that's only until the cat is active - don't run with the bypass open when the cat is already warm enough. You risk damaging things around the bypass opening. Close the bypass as soon as the cat is warm enough; in the active regime.

Thanks! I have noticed it's not as hyperactive as it was before, which is nice. By 'not very low' I mean about 1/2 way on the dial; anything less than that it just loses momentum and drops into in-active. It's working great, but just wondering if there is a way to get it to stoke down a little more without going out so we could have longer lower-temp burns for when we're away.

The dial meaning the thermostat?
That can be normal. Each set up has its own cut-off point, depending on draft etc.
If yours is 1/2 way on the dial, so be it.

If you load your Princess full (playing stove tetris with the splits), how long does the longest burn that you can do with an active cat take? I.e. running near where the cat would drop out?
That should be more than 24 hrs. The advertized long burn (I think 30 hrs for a Princess) really is achievable with an optimal set up. Yours is not perfectly optimal. And this was tested with Doug fir I believe. (not oak).

 

[rollercoasterracer]

You can wait imo.

A little, yes. The reason is that the cat will also fluctuate in temperature, based on what the load is doing (wood collapsing etc.) and what the thermostat is doing (it'll oscillate a bit sometimes before reaching some steady state air flow).
And the cat temp may be opposite as to what you expect; fire dying down and cat temp going up.
You can't regulate the stove based on this. That is what the thermostat is for.
It'll only confuzzle you.
Measure flue temps and know when to close the bypass (when cat is active). That's all that's needed.

Awesome. Understood, thank you.

I hope that's only until the cat is active - don't run with the bypass open when the cat is already warm enough. You risk damaging things around the bypass opening. Close the bypass as soon as the cat is warm enough; in the active regime.

I guess I hadn't thought that through all the way. Typically, yes, it's when the cat is in-active starting from cold. But, there are times the cat is active and I know the load won't last for when we're away (or asleep), so I do a hot-reload. I'm actually actively researching this right now... the guys that installed it for me said to wait to engage the cat until it's close to the second tick-mark in the 'active' zone (which is close to the 'a' in active on my dial). So I've kind of used that as a 'don't reload unless below this mark.' My hot-load method is as follows:

1. Open nearest window slightly.
2. (as long as it is at or below the second tick mark on active) Open t-stat to WOT.
3. Open by-pass.
4. After a few minutes, release door latch but don't open.
5. After a few minutes, while monitoring for possible smoke leakage, slowly open the door (close if not ready and wait longer).
6. Quickly re-load with a few logs, closing door but resting latch against the stopper.
7. Wait until new logs ignite and fire is doing well.
8. Latch door.
9. Once the temp probe dial is near the second tick mark and fire is established, close the bypass.
10. Once the probe starts to climb and I feel all things are well, slowly start to bring the dial back to about 1/2 way (which seems to be our 'happy place' right now).

Are we doing it wrong here? I know the BK manual states not to load unless the dial is at or below the first tick mark in the active zone (which is pretty much when it engages). But, correct me if I'm wrong, it would be better to do a hot load while the cat is a little bit hotter than to make it go through another cool down/warm up because the fire died while we were gone/asleep and had to do another cold start. Would it not? I always bring a couple of days worth of wood inside and it is stacked next to the stove before it gets loaded, so it's not like I'm bringing wood from 15* temps to directly into the stove. I understand that the +/-70* we keep the house at is still significantly less than the current fire-box temps... IDK, I guess I don't know at point 'thermal shock' is a thing for the cat. Thoughts?

The dial meaning the thermostat?
That can be normal. Each set up has its own cut-off point, depending on draft etc.
If yours is 1/2 way on the dial, so be it.

Sorry, yes, I meant the thermostat. Good to know. I wasn't sure how air-tight this place was, but it does seem to put a damper on the draft... I typically open the nearest window when starting a new fire. It embarrassingly enough took me some struggles, smokey rooms and research to figure that one out.

If you load your Princess full (playing stove tetris with the splits), how long does the longest burn that you can do with an active cat take? I.e. running near where the cat would drop out?
That should be more than 24 hrs. The advertized long burn (I think 30 hrs for a Princess) really is achievable with an optimal set up. Yours is not perfectly optimal. And this was tested with Doug fir I believe. (not oak).

I haven't stuffed it to the fullest, honestly. I've always leaned on the side of caution (foolishly) thinking that it would just burn hotter, not really understanding the full function of the cat and thermostat... the past couple of days I've finally started to load it heavier. Last night was about 14hrs and that wasn't even trying that hard (my splits could be smaller... some of the logs I had were 3' in diameter, so there's quite a bit of wasted space due to my laziness during splitting).


Another question I didn't think about until now; when doing a Tetris full-load, how big are the logs you're loading? Is it better to have a bunch of smaller ones? From what I'm understanding now, it may be better to do a bunch of small guys instead of larger ones because of, from what I'm reading, when a log breaks and all that surface is exposed, the off-gassing may be too much for the cat. So, is it better to just split everything into smaller pieces to 1) avoid over-gassing the cat and 2) make it easier to fully load?

 

[stoveliker]

I guess I hadn't thought that through all the way. Typically, yes, it's when the cat is in-active starting from cold. But, there are times the cat is active and I know the load won't last for when we're away (or asleep), so I do a hot-reload. I'm actually actively researching this right now... the guys that installed it for me said to wait to engage the cat until it's close to the second tick-mark in the 'active' zone (which is close to the 'a' in active on my dial). So I've kind of used that as a 'don't reload unless below this mark.'

I suggest to read the manual instead of listening to installers. They're often wrong - as in this case.
Don't wait until it's far into the active range. Close the bypass when it gets into it.

My hot-load method is as follows:

1. Open nearest window slightly.
2. (as long as it is at or below the second tick mark on active) Open t-stat to WOT.
3. Open by-pass.
4. After a few minutes, release door latch but don't open.
5. After a few minutes, while monitoring for possible smoke leakage, slowly open the door (close if not ready and wait longer).
6. Quickly re-load with a few logs, closing door but resting latch against the stopper.
7. Wait until new logs ignite and fire is doing well.

I would completely close the door right when the flames start. If the chimney is warm enough (which it should be if the cat is still as warm as you indicate in step 2), there's enough draft to get the wood going once flame is present. At least, if your wood is dry enough.

8. Latch door.
9. Once the temp probe dial is near the second tick mark and fire is established, close the bypass.

Nope, if the cat is still in the active range, you can in principle close the bypass immediately when you close the door. I do let it go for about 1 or 2 minutes max to warm up the wood a bit, so there's less (relatively) cold gases flowing through the cat.

10. Once the probe starts to climb and I feel all things are well, slowly start to bring the dial back to about 1/2 way (which seems to be our 'happy place' right now).

Are we doing it wrong here? I know the BK manual states not to load unless the dial is at or below the first tick mark in the active zone (which is pretty much when it engages). But, correct me if I'm wrong, it would be better to do a hot load while the cat is a little bit hotter than to make it go through another cool down/warm up because the fire died while we were gone/asleep and had to do another cold start. Would it not?

I think the opposite. First, it's only necessary to have it active to engage it. But second, if it's hotter (say 900 F), you're letting <100 F air hit the cat when you open the door. Much better to have 100 F room air hit the cat when the cat is 500 F or so. Less thermal shock.

I would not second guess the manual. BK knows their product, and (important) they have skin in the game. They wish all their customers are completely happy (so word of mouth and repeat customers after 2 decades or so). If I were them, I'd only give the best advice I can regarding operation of the stove...

In fact, cold starts may be less taxing on the cat than a shock of room air when it's 500+ F. In a cold start you warm it up rather gradually...

I always bring a couple of days worth of wood inside and it is stacked next to the stove before it gets loaded, so it's not like I'm bringing wood from 15* temps to directly into the stove. I understand that the +/-70* we keep the house at is still significantly less than the current fire-box temps... IDK, I guess I don't know at point 'thermal shock' is a thing for the cat. Thoughts?

It's very good to do that with your wood. I do the same.
See above for shock.

Sorry, yes, I meant the thermostat. Good to know. I wasn't sure how air-tight this place was, but it does seem to put a damper on the draft... I typically open the nearest window when starting a new fire. It embarrassingly enough took me some struggles, smokey rooms and research to figure that one out.

Hm. That suggests your draft is not optimal. Possibly due to heat loss because of the single wall, and/or due to your elevation above sea level.
Look in the manual; there's a page explaining what flue height you should have, based on number of (45) elbows and elevation above sea level. I think you should be okay at 20 ft, but better to check.
Do you have a way to add an outside air connection? That way you avoid most pressure issues of a home.

I haven't stuffed it to the fullest, honestly. I've always leaned on the side of caution (foolishly) thinking that it would just burn hotter, not really understanding the full function of the cat and thermostat... the past couple of days I've finally started to load it heavier. Last night was about 14hrs and that wasn't even trying that hard (my splits could be smaller... some of the logs I had were 3' in diameter, so there's quite a bit of wasted space due to my laziness during splitting).

Nice. The thermostat will basically function as a "dosing device", spreading out fuel usage (wood load) over an amount of time. Fill that tank and you'll burn longer (at the same thermostat setting).
Large splits are good for longer burns. Splits that are too small will burn up faster.
But indeed if you end up with a lot of empty space, you get less BTUs put into the box.
I suggest a mix of large and smaller splits.
And then play stove tetris

Another question I didn't think about until now; when doing a Tetris full-load, how big are the logs you're loading? Is it better to have a bunch of smaller ones?

A mix is best. I start with big ones. Preferably square or rectangular once. And then at the top I end up needing some smaller pieces.
If I have triangular splits, I do need some smaller ones halfway up as well.
See it as concrete: large gravel, small gravel to fill the holes, sand to fill the leftover holes, and cement to bind to the sand.
BUt you can take it too far; it's a bit of a hobby of me to stuff it. Not always success ful though.
There's a "whats in your stove right now" thread with many pics of many folks. Have a look. Not everybody plays tetris, and those who do don't do it always.
In the end, if your life works best with a 12 hr reload schedule, then who cares if you don't tetris and get 14 hrs already.

From what I'm understanding now, it may be better to do a bunch of small guys instead of larger ones because of, from what I'm reading, when a log breaks and all that surface is exposed, the off-gassing may be too much for the cat. So, is it better to just split everything into smaller pieces to 1) avoid over-gassing the cat and 2) make it easier to fully load?

No, smaller ones means more surface area per lbs of wood, so more offgassing.

In the end, it's best to play around and find out what works for you.

I do have some 6-8" rectangular red or white oak splits. They last long. I save those for polar vortex nights.