Flooring - cork?

[Ashful]

So, I'm looking at flooring options for a music studio, in the room above my attached garage. I let my wife talk me out of doing the obligatory face-nailed 1x6 T&G southern yellow pine flooring, which I have much practice in putting down, because she knows too well the pain of finishing (1 day to sand, 3 days to urethane, then cope all baseboards to fit).

I installed the baseboard with a 1/2" gap to subfloor, figuring I'd just do carpet up there. Carpet gives good insulation for a studio, with regard to both sound and temperature (garage below is not heated or cooled), so it's a great choice in that regard. However, being a room that is entered from a less than entirely clean garage, my wife is now concerned the carpet will just get real dirty real fast. She probably has a good point, there.

In looking for other options, I came across cork, available as a pre-finished floating floor. Any opinions? I've never liked floating floors, as they always feel "loose" when I walk on them, being more used to traditional nailed-down wood flooring. However, I've never actually seen or walked on a cork floor.

I'm partially excited about this, thinking I might be lucky enough to find some combination of floor and underlayment that brings me right up to the 1/2" gap I left below my baseboards, and negating the need for the dreaded shoe molding.

 

[Ashful]

Oh... a quick photo:

 

[BrotherBart]

I don't care what you put on the floor. I just want a pic of that kit in there when it is finished. And some youtube vids.

 

[bsruther]

Have you looked at engineered hardwood flooring? It comes prefinished and is supposed to be pretty durable, from what I've read.
You could always put an area rug in the room to muffle sound.

As far as finishing wood floors goes, it's easier and faster than it used to be, if the right finishing products are used. I just got done refinishing the stove room and dining room.
Sanding, staining, finishing and moulding took 3 days. I used a 2 part water based urethane and I was really surprised how quickly it dried and how hard the finish is..
Only part I didn't like was using the edging sander, that thing will break an old man's back.

 

[Retired Guy]

I painted a floor with paint that never dried. Called the manufacturer and they suggested coating with two coats of Minwax water based poly. It was the nicest varnish that I have ever used - low odor and dried so quickly that I could re-coat the same day. Not an issue over your pine - done in two days if you stain - one if you don't. It will not amber with age though.

 

[ChipTam]

So, I'm looking at flooring options for a music studio, in the room above my attached garage. I let my wife talk me out of doing the obligatory face-nailed 1x6 T&G southern yellow pine flooring, which I have much practice in putting down, because she knows too well the pain of finishing (1 day to sand, 3 days to urethane, then cope all baseboards to fit).

I installed the baseboard with a 1/2" gap to subfloor, figuring I'd just do carpet up there. Carpet gives good insulation for a studio, with regard to both sound and temperature (garage below is not heated or cooled), so it's a great choice in that regard. However, being a room that is entered from a less than entirely clean garage, my wife is now concerned the carpet will just get real dirty real fast. She probably has a good point, there.

In looking for other options, I came across cork, available as a pre-finished floating floor. Any opinions? I've never liked floating floors, as they always feel "loose" when I walk on them, being more used to traditional nailed-down wood flooring. However, I've never actually seen or walked on a cork floor.

I'm partially excited about this, thinking I might be lucky enough to find some combination of floor and underlayment that brings me right up to the 1/2" gap I left below my baseboards, and negating the need for the dreaded shoe molding.

If you're interested in cork flooring you might want to go a flooring distributor. They will sometimes have a 3x3 piece so you can see what it feels like underfoot. Supposedly, it wears well, does not stain all that easily, and is really nice underfoot. We considered it for our new kitchen but the price changed our mind. I've used 1x4 T&G yellow pine and that would be a good choice too despite the finishing time required. By the way, what do you have against shoe molding?

ChipTam

 

[Ashful]

Thanks, guys. Yep... very familiar with Minwax, although I always use the Oil Poly, since I prefer the amber, and it lays out nicer, IMO.

I am really wishing I had not listened to the wife, and just done the face-nailed T&G pine, which I've done so many times now. I still could, but I'd have to settle for finishing it off with shoe molding. Also, sanding out a floor can make a mess of things, having already painted the whole room. That might still be how I end up going, but figured I'd check out engineered options, since I really don't have much experience with these.

Chip: I have no written research to support this, but based on my experience of owning more than 40 old houses, the invention of shoe molding seems to coincide with the invention of the subfloor/finished floor system. I can say with certainty that none of my pre-1900 houses had shoe molding. So, it's not historically appropriate for a 1770's farm house, although I guess that could be said about many things in this particular wing of the house. Mostly, I think it just looks like a crude afterthought or poor-man's fix, when it's so easy to just cope your baseboards to the floor, the way God intended.

 

[ChipTam]

Thanks, guys. Yep... very familiar with Minwax, although I always use the Oil Poly, since I prefer the amber, and it lays out nicer, IMO.

I am really wishing I had not listened to the wife, and just done the face-nailed T&G pine, which I've done so many times now. I still could, but I'd have to settle for finishing it off with shoe molding. Also, sanding out a floor can make a mess of things, having already painted the whole room. That might still be how I end up going, but figured I'd check out engineered options, since I really don't have much experience with these.

Chip: I have no written research to support this, but based on my experience of owning more than 40 old houses, the invention of shoe molding seems to coincide with the invention of the subfloor/finished floor system. I can say with certainty that none of my pre-1900 houses had shoe molding. So, it's not historically appropriate for a 1770's farm house, although I guess that could be said about many things in this particular wing of the house. Mostly, I think it just looks like a crude afterthought or poor-man's fix, when it's so easy to just cope your baseboards to the floor, the way God intended.

Hi Joful,

I have two 1880-era homes that I've restored and both had shoe molding. You may be right that homes from the early nineteenth century did not. I don't know but I'm a bit skeptical that it began with subfloor/ finished floor systems. As I'm sure you know, the reason for shoe molding is to hide the gap between baseboard and floor which is inevitable since, even with the best construction, the floor is not going to be perfectly level and, if you want the baseboard to be nailed on level, there's going to be a gap. You're right that you could cope baseboards to the floor but, boy, that's a lot of extra work. Interesting discussion. One last point. I've used porch and deck enamel on an interior 1x4 T&G yellow pine flooring in order to match some near-by flooring. I think it can look appropriate in an older house (especially colonial vintage). Now, that doesn't solve the sanding issue but it does simplify the finishing.

ChipTam

 

[Ashful]

Hi Chip,

You bring up some good points, except that the coping of the baseboard can be done very quickly. Having done only maybe a dozen rooms of this myself, but being one who does a good bit of woodworking, it only takes me maybe 10 minutes to cope a baseboard to an uneven floor with a jack plane. I set the baseboard down, and use a scrap of shim to get it level. Then I use a pencil (if gap is small) or dividers (if gap is large) to scribe a line on the bottom of the baseboard that follows the uneven floor. Then I flip the baseboard over and kneel, holding it between my knees, while I scrub away material down to the line. As with all molding work, I back-bevel, so that there's really only a thin edge of board touching the floor on the exposed face. This makes any final fitting go very quickly, but I'm good enough at it now that I usually get it on the first try / no final fitting required. As good as I have gotten at this as an amateur, I suspect a master carpenter of the day could do this much faster than me, maybe taking only 5 minutes for a room-length section of baseboard.

My last house was in a small village where every house in the village was built between 1870 and 1890. None of the original floors in these houses had shoe molding, excepting cases where it was added more recently to cover refinishing work. So, local traditions may be at play, here. We also owned a house built in 1865, and while it did have shoe molding throughout, it was all newer moldings applied to old baseboards. I can say with certainty that the older houses we have owned (1692, 1740, 1742, 1780) all lacked any trace of shoe molding on the original floors.

Back to the OP, I convinced the wife to just let me call the carpet installer in on this one. Having spent most of my adult life pulling carpets OUT of old houses, and repairing the original floors, this feels all backwards to me. However, this is a new room above an attached garage, designed to hold a drum kit. Carpet will do just fine, here.

 

[Highbeam]

I always thought that shoe molding was to cover mistakes or for flooring installers too lazy to remove and reinstall the baseboards after putting in new floors.

 

[ironpony]

cork is a great choice/insulator, feels warm underfoot. besides floating you can get it in glue down a little cheaper. comes in different sizes, I found a roll that was 4 foot wide and 50 ft long. some need to be poly'd after being installed to seal the seams. lots of ways it is installed.

 

[ChipTam]

Hi Chip,

You bring up some good points, except that the coping of the baseboard can be done very quickly. Having done only maybe a dozen rooms of this myself, but being one who does a good bit of woodworking, it only takes me maybe 10 minutes to cope a baseboard to an uneven floor with a jack plane. I set the baseboard down, and use a scrap of shim to get it level. Then I use a pencil (if gap is small) or dividers (if gap is large) to scribe a line on the bottom of the baseboard that follows the uneven floor. Then I flip the baseboard over and kneel, holding it between my knees, while I scrub away material down to the line. As with all molding work, I back-bevel, so that there's really only a thin edge of board touching the floor on the exposed face. This makes any final fitting go very quickly, but I'm good enough at it now that I usually get it on the first try / no final fitting required. As good as I have gotten at this as an amateur, I suspect a master carpenter of the day could do this much faster than me, maybe taking only 5 minutes for a room-length section of baseboard.

My last house was in a small village where every house in the village was built between 1870 and 1890. None of the original floors in these houses had shoe molding, excepting cases where it was added more recently to cover refinishing work. So, local traditions may be at play, here. We also owned a house built in 1865, and while it did have shoe molding throughout, it was all newer moldings applied to old baseboards. I can say with certainty that the older houses we have owned (1692, 1740, 1742, 1780) all lacked any trace of shoe molding on the original floors.

Back to the OP, I convinced the wife to just let me call the carpet installer in on this one. Having spent most of my adult life pulling carpets OUT of old houses, and repairing the original floors, this feels all backwards to me. However, this is a new room above an attached garage, designed to hold a drum kit. Carpet will do just fine, here.

Hi Joful,

I worked my whole adult life as a cabinetmaker and had to do my share of finish carpentry in the process. If you can cope one wall of baseboard in 5-10 minutes you're a better man than me.

ChipTam

 

[ironpony]

about flooring, the house we lived in in NY, floor joists, all the hardwood laid, then the walls were on top of the hardwood. Yes all the walls, it was not a remodel or moved wall.

 

[maple1]

Installing baseboard BEFORE the flooring is a foreign concept to me.

 

[ironpony]

Installing baseboard BEFORE the flooring is a foreign concept to me.

pretty standard here when installing carpet. hold up 1/2 inch and tuck carpet in.

 

[Ashful]

I worked my whole adult life as a cabinetmaker and had to do my share of finish carpentry in the process. If you can cope one wall of baseboard in 5-10 minutes you're a better man than me.

Nah... but maybe more squirrely. Floors don't typically change height abruptly, so I'm rarely removing more than 1/8". I just set a standard no.5 jack for a deep cut, and work at maybe 5 - 10 degree bevel angle to get within 1/32" of the line. Then I go back with my little pocket-sized block plane and take it down square to the line. Sometimes, if I'm in a place where I need to keep one hand on the board to work, I just do it all with the little block plane. Either way, working 12' or 16' lengths of clear pine, it's very fast.

I used to take more time doing it than I do now, but that was more about marking (and trusting my mark), than cutting. I'd set it, mark a little, work close to the line, re-set it, re-check, re-mark, work a little further... as if this was furniture to be viewed at eye level. Now I just set it once, find the largest spot in the gap, mark to that height, plane once, flip it over and nail it in. I used to go for zero gap everywhere, but have since learned that you'll never see a 1/32" gap at floor height. Heck, most of my antique / original baseboards have gaps over 3/32" here and there, and you never notice it. The only time I have to flip a board a second time to do more work is when the wall is too long to cover with one board, and I have to set a second to match the height of a first.

Installing baseboard BEFORE the flooring is a foreign concept to me.

pretty standard here when installing carpet. hold up 1/2 inch and tuck carpet in.

Living in and working on old houses, I always did the floor before the baseboard. This is my first time for a carpet install, so I set the baseboards 1/2" above the subfloor. However, looking at new construction around here, it seems it's pretty standard for builders to do the baseboards at the same time as door and window casings, long before the flooring guy comes in. In fact, it seems the flooring guy is the last one in before paint, in new houses built around here. Shoe molding is obligatory.

about flooring, the house we lived in in NY, floor joists, all the hardwood laid, then the walls were on top of the hardwood. Yes all the walls, it was not a remodel or moved wall.

My 1770's house is the same. All interior walls sit atop the T&G pine flooring. Original walls are horizontal plank, but were covered with "modern" lathe and plaster, ca.1820.

 

[Ashful]

I don't care what you put on the floor. I just want a pic of that kit in there when it is finished. And some youtube vids.

The rig going up:



Putting it at the "wrong" end of the room first, so I can figure out flooring/platform, before moving it to final location.

 

[BrotherBart]

Schweet!

 

[jdp1152]

Installing baseboard BEFORE the flooring is a foreign concept to me.

Seems to be prevalent in older homes in the northeast. Makes for a huge hassle if you want to pull em out and replace.

 

[Mellery]

We have (high-quality) cork in our kitchen, the long planks that fit together. Got it since we spend a lot of time standing and cooking and ended up with aching feet, knees, hips etc. No more pain, it's so comfy and soft! Insulating, sound-proofing, fire-resistant, bug-resistant and stays warm in the winter and cool in the summer. It's the firmest floor in our home, not at all loose. It's the bark of the tree that re-grows in about 7-8 years. I was going to say it would be a good choice for you until I looked up the average relative humidity in your area. It's too high to accommodate cork, it needs to live in humidity constantly lower than 50%.

 

[smokedragon]

So I read this forum the other day and didn't reply cause I have ZERO experience with cork.

But I can't help it, so here we go:

Carpet gives good insulation for a studio, with regard to both sound and temperature (garage below is not heated or cooled), so it's a great choice in that regard. However, being a room that is entered from a less than entirely clean garage, my wife is now concerned the carpet will just get real dirty real fast.

Either a) use a door mat at the entrance to the room or b) build a little seat and remove your shoes.

My boots stay at the back door under a built in bench outside the family room (cause they ALWAYS have something on them). I keep a pair of shoes there to put on when I take my boots off and don't want to be bare footed.

PS - the exposed timber in the ceiling is absolutely awesome. Beautiful room, and would look good with the solution you let the wife talk you out of

 

[Ashful]

Thanks! Actually, put a rug at the bottom of the stair, since the door won't clear a rug on top of the carpet at the top of the stair. Usually, I'm wearing house slippers when I go out there, but I'm walking thru the garage to get there, so surely picking up some dirt on my slippers.

I'm happy with the rug. I haven't had the chance to spend much time out there yet, other than setting up the new thermostat (dual set point) for the mini-split system, and setting up the kit in temporary fashion. Gotta order up a rug or build a small platform, before moving the kit to its final location, then move in the rest of the band gear.

Cork would've been nice, but being just a spare room over the garage seen by no-one but me and a couple buddies who I jam with a few times per year... this will work!

Just remembered... gotta get some ceiling lights! Still looking at bare bulbs in ceramic basement/garage fixtures.

 

[1kzwoman]

I went to local Big Box with my Son and DDL when they were concidering cork flooring. I "happened "to drag my fingernails across the display tiles pulling some small nibs of cork loose. My Son decided that type of cork wasn't their best choice for flooring..hardwood was installed..smart boy I wonder who raised him?