Flush Mount Lopi Insert won't quite fit

[mg101]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to Hearth.com and new to burning wood (well, we're not even there yet!). I'm trying to decide the best insert to put in our existing fireplace. So far top of the list is the Regency CI2600 and Lopi Hybrid Fyre. The Lopi has a bigger burn chamber which makes me think it will go longer than the Regency (it claims 14+ hours, but I doubt that). Also I may be able to get a good deal on the Lopi, so we're kinda leaning towards it. I'm also looking at the Napoleon 1401, but that sticks out far enough that it will force us to put down a hearth extension pad. We're trying to make a flush-mount work.

Unfortunately, the Lopi won't quite fit in the fireplace and the smaller model down is too small. My fireplace has tapered side walls, and the insert would bump into sides before it start to taper back. Based on my calcs, it will stick out about 1 to 1.5". Can these things be installed "sticking out" a bit. Alternatively, I could theoretically grind away some material in the side of the masonry fireplace to fit it, but that would be a big mess. I'm a pretty good DIY guy, but that's pushing it for me.

The Regency CI2600 would fit nicely, but I fear the burn time will not be as advertised - we plan to replace our Harman pellet stove and use this to heat the entire house. I think the Lopi will do better. Thoughts?

 

[prezes13]

Personally I would not grind anything out of my fireplace. Second don't belive in the burn times advertised by manufacturer it's the best case scenario. I have a smaller lopi flush insert rated for 1200-2000sf and 10 hours burn time. I heat 1200 sf on ct and my burn times are 6-8 hr. I will get the fan to stay on for 10 or so hours but only when it 30-40 or higher outside.

 

[Grisu]

Welcome to the forum!

A bit more info would be great and some pics of the fireplace would not hurt either. How many sqft do you want to heat? How well insulated is the house? Approximately how many lb of pellets did you use in a cold winter month (e. g. January). Can you post a rough floorplan with the location of the fireplace?

Specific to your questions: The insert could certainly stick out a bit, that's more of an aesthetics question than anything regarding performance or safety of the insert (if side clearances are honored). Just make sure that the flue outlet could still be matched up with the liner. The void around the surround could be filled with some sheet metal painted black.

The Regency CI2600 is a new unit and the early reviews were mixed. Regency is applying some fixes that seem to improve its performance. Still, not sure if I would really believe the 14 hr burn time but many manufacturers like to inflate that number anyway. I recommend reading through this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-ci2600-fireplace-insert-risky-costly.132252/

How is your wood supply? Do you have several cords of dry wood ready for this winter?

 

[Shane]

If it's only 1-1.5" you might be able to install 1/2 bricks on the face of the fireplace around the opening, provided you have enough hearth.

 

[webby3650]

I'm pretty sure Lopi offers an extension kit for their flush units. Ask your dealer, it's not something that will be in their website.

 

[mg101]

Welcome to the forum!

A bit more info would be great and some pics of the fireplace would not hurt either. How many sqft do you want to heat? How well insulated is the house? Approximately how many lb of pellets did you use in a cold winter month (e. g. January). Can you post a rough floorplan with the location of the fireplace?

Specific to your questions: The insert could certainly stick out a bit, that's more of an aesthetics question than anything regarding performance or safety of the insert (if side clearances are honored). Just make sure that the flue outlet could still be matched up with the liner. The void around the surround could be filled with some sheet metal painted black.

The Regency CI2600 is a new unit and the early reviews were mixed. Regency is applying some fixes that seem to improve its performance. Still, not sure if I would really believe the 14 hr burn time but many manufacturers like to inflate that number anyway. I recommend reading through this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-ci2600-fireplace-insert-risky-costly.132252/

How is your wood supply? Do you have several cords of dry wood ready for this winter?

Sorry for the delayed response here... We ended up going with a Blaze King Princess insert. Couldn't bring myself to be a guinea pig on either the Regency or Lopi hybrids. Napolean 1401 was in the running too. But after all my research and all the reviews, I think the Princess is a good fit for us. But for posterity's sake, here is more detail about my home. It's about 2000 sf colonial with a semi-open first floor layout. The living room is connected to the kitchen and the stairs are right across the room from where the stove will be located. It's an '03 and pretty well insulated. With my old Englander and my newer Harman stove, I ran about 4 tons of pellets per season, with the propane FHA system pretty much idle all winter.

Regarding wood supply, I think that's entirely a separate thread! Sigh... this has been the most difficult thing to figure out. Bottom line, I found a guy who has seasoned wood (4-6 months on pavement) which he claims most of his customers will burn this winter, and they are repeat customers. So I bought 4 cords of it. As a backup, I also bought two tons of CleanFire bio bricks. I spoke with a tech/engineer at Blaze King and he didn't think it would be problem at all since they are 100% wood and have low sodium content. As long as I don't overload the stove, he thought it was fine. Really liked this guy. He offered to test them out for me if I sent him a few bricks - I plan to take him up on the offer. That sort of support helped solidify my decision to go with Blaze King.

The only downside to the Princess is that (as far as I understand) it requires an insulated liner, and the installer is confident he's going to have to knock out the otherwise perfectly good flue tiles to get an insulated pipe down there. Was considering asking about this on a separate thread. Anyway, thanks for all the good info. This site is amazing!

 

[Grisu]

What are the inner dimensions of the current flue and how tall is the chimney? Maybe an insulated 5.5" liner would work.

The Princess is a good choice. Its thermostat controlled cat burn will be a good fit for your home. 4 tons of pellets equal 3 to 4 cords of wood. When you mix the wood you have with the bio bricks you should get by this winter.

 

[mg101]

What are the inner dimensions of the current flue and how tall is the chimney? Maybe an insulated 5.5" liner would work.

The Princess is a good choice. Its thermostat controlled cat burn will be a good fit for your home. 4 tons of pellets equal 3 to 4 cords of wood. When you mix the wood you have with the bio bricks you should get by this winter.

I think it's an 8x12 flue. About 25 feet tall. He did not think a 5.5" would help. How thick is the insulation typically? I'm assuming he's going to use a wrap around the insert.

 

[bholler]

Just have him break out the liners and put the 6" in it is the right way to do it

 

[Grisu]

Just have him break out the liners and put the 6" in it is the right way to do it

I am curious: Would the next homeowner still be able to use the fireplace when he has no interest in insert and liner and pulls them out?

 

[bholler]

I am curious: Would the next homeowner still be able to use the fireplace when he has no interest in insert and liner and pulls them out?

if they put a liner in it yes but honestly I have rarely come across that situation

 

[Grisu]

if they put a liner in it yes but honestly I have rarely come across that situation

Maybe because very few people busted liners out so far, as rarely a full insulated liner was installed. Or maybe I am wrong and your Dad does remember a whole lot of liner busting?!

To the OP: It is up to you. You can do as bholler suggested and get the clay liner out. If you want to keep it maybe get a second opinion (e. g. found here: http://www.csia.org/search ) whether an insulated 5.5" liner could be installed and give BK a call whether the Princess works on an insulated 5.5" flue.

 

[bholler]

Maybe because very few people busted liners out so far, as rarely a full insulated liner was installed. Or maybe I am wrong and your Dad does remember a whole lot of liner busting?

No allot of sweeps break out liners and have been for 25+ years. why do you think there are so many liner breaking tools available on the market? And it also is not rare at all for a full insulated liner to be installed. I personally would go with an oval before going down to a 5.5". But a second opinion would not be a bad idea.

 

[Grisu]

I have never tried to purchase any liner breaking tools so I don't know how many of them are on the market. My post was more to the fact that 30 years ago slammer or direct-vent installs were common and those would be the chimneys that now someone may want to re-convert into a fireplace chimney after liner and insert reached the end of their service life and/or houses exchanged owners. Insulated liners are common now or have been for the last 10-15 years but those I imagine would rarely be pulled.

If BK gives their blessings for the 5.5" liner and the installation would work I don't see why ovalizing would be better. Maybe BK has an opinion what would be better.

 

[bholler]

If BK gives their blessings for the 5.5" liner and the installation would work I don't see why ovalizing would be better.

Because going with 6" capacity will allow them to install just about any stove in there in the future 5.5" will limit them

 

[bholler]

Insulated liners are common now or have been for the last 10-15 years

No insulation has been available and common since commercially available ss liners were introduces roughly 30 years ago.

 

[bholler]

I can honestly say that we only get a call to put a fireplace back to a traditional fireplace once every 4 to 5 years

 

[BrotherBart]

Because going with 6" capacity will allow them to install just about any stove in there in the future 5.5" will limit them

But when you ovalize a six inch liner you end up with less cross sectional area than a 5.5" round liner. And have a pain in the butt to clean.

 

[bholler]

But when you ovalize a six inch liner you end up with less cross sectional area than a 5.5" round liner. And have a pain in the butt to clean.

That is why you would have to ovalize 7" to have a 6" equivilant. And as long as you use an ovalizer that makes it nice and consistent no it is not a pain to clean.

 

[RickInNJ]

I'm about to get the same Lopi/FPX Large Hybrid-Fyre, and may have a similar issue. The insert should fit, but the Green Start unit may not.

Is it ok to remove firebricks, chop them in half, and replace them using refractory cement (e.g. from Lowe's/HD) for the mortar?