Folks who know about Englander stoves... an older EPA one with a Cat?

[tickbitty]

I'm looking at a used Englander insert that is a bit bigger than the new ones, (rated for 2000sq ft) and extends onto the hearth which is something I was looking for. And the price is pretty good at $375 which is one of my major factors at this point.
It is an EPA stove and I am guessing it's 9 or 10 years old from what the owner said. It was in their house when they bought it in 2003, but they have only used it twice because the guy has deadly allergies. They have the original manual and paperwork and everything (though he didn't tell me the exact model) and the stove looks well cared for. But, it's a catalytic model. Does anyone recognize this model or know anything about these Cat. models? (their current inserts do not have cat combustors.) I don't have a particular aversion to Cats but don't know anything about them and wonder if it would be a mistake to get an older, lower pricepoint maker's cat stove.
I know a lot of folks on here feel OK about the Englander brands and I was pleased to learn on here yesterday that they are made in my state too so I am looking kindly on them at this point.

 

[BrotherBart]

That is a 24-JC cat insert. Should be a pretty good stove.

http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/manuals/24-JC.pdf

 

[mellow]

Just a heads up that it requires 8" pipe. Now if you could buy an 8" to 6" converter and still get good draft that would be a good question. How tall is your chimney?

Edit: Manual gives OK to 6" converter.

I would also just budget into buying that stove getting a new combustor.

Are you going to do the liner yourself or have a sweep do it?

 

[tickbitty]

See, now this is why you people are the best around. Where else could a person post some obscure picture and get such specific and necessary answers?!
Thank you so much. I checked my clearances on the mantel and they should be OK, only the bottom trim is a little short and would need a shield of some sort. Plus I will need stove board on the floor in front of it but I figure on being able to pull that up seasonally.

I have no clue how tall my chimney is and need to measure it. It's unlined right now. If these people are just doing away with the woodstove as it sounds like they are, I may be able to get some liner or connectors from them as part of the deal. Though with my luck I will get this all figured out and someone else will buy it before I get up there. This isn't the most stylish thing I have seen by any means but I think it would do the trick. And save me upwards of $1000 or so I guess.

Here's my house - just how tall IS my chimney? lol, I haven;t a clue - I guess I have an appointment with a ladder and a plumb bob! I know I need liner. (I have a spanking new roof and gutters since these pics!)
Edited to add - sorry Mellow I didn't see your questions. I think we are going with a professional install (sweep) because we just don't know enough about this stuff and want to make sure everything is safe and copacetic. I don't have one lined up yet but I figured I would see what I get in terms of stove and all and then try to get all the necessary liners and stuff for the best prices I can before I have the install done. Unless you think it would make more sense to have the installer dictate what exactly I need, but I thought I could get a lot of that info here and at least be an informed customer as much as I can.

 

[mellow]

Taking a wild guess it looks like the marginal height of 15ft. I would call around to local sweeps and see how backed up they are, this is their busy time of year, it is no fun buying the stove and having it sit while waiting to have it installed properly. Don't bet on the people already having a liner, alot of stoves were installed without liners, and some are still done that way. Really you should have a new liner installed so you know what you are getting, it looks like a straight shot down your chimney so you could get away with an insulated 6" rigid liner, depending on your chimney flue size.

 

[tickbitty]

Surely a dumb question, but what does the length of chimney have to do with the draft? Do longer chimneys get better draft?

My husband just found the chimney sweep reciept from a few years ago when he got the chimney swept. I assume it's still clean since we have had maybe a total of 2 fires since then. Anyway it doesn't say how long the chimbley is other than "one story", but says it had "broken bricks" in one place, indicated in the firebox/grate area. And says it's a 13" X 13" flu. Is that unusually big? Would I have to get the brick fixed or will the liner take care of that? It was the only area indicated as unsatisfactory on the thing, and it certainly didn't say anything about being unsafe on there, just said we should have them back in a year.

My husband recalls that they may have said they don't do installs.

How much does it usually cost to get a chimney swept anyway? This guy swept it and put on a cage/cap, for 245.00.

 

[mellow]

For sweep pricing you can do a search on the site to see what you come up with, it varies by area.

Most stove manufacturers require atleast 15ft of chimney for adequate draft, the taller the chimney the more draft.

13x13 is plenty big, you should have no problems putting an insulated liner down that, if the broken bricks are in the firebox you should just be able to have them replaced, it should not effect your chimney.

If the sweep gave you the ok to still burn you should be fine. Call around to other local sweeps and find out who does installs and pricing. Most I have seen range from $500-$800 with liner, insulated liner might bump it up to $1000, but again this all depends on the sweep.

 

[mellow]

Here you go tick, this one might be worth the drive. Sierra 5300, can be turned into an insert and heats upto 1500sq ft, says it has never been used.

http://easternshore.craigslist.org/hsh/1452475963.html

http://sierraproductsinc.net/pages/pdf/Sierra_Woodstoves.pdf

Just posted 30 mins ago so you better get on it.

Not sure what retail pricing is on it, this one is $999.

 

[tickbitty]

Here you go tick, this one might be worth the drive. Sierra 5300, can be turned into an insert and heats upto 1500sq ft, says it has never been used.

http://easternshore.craigslist.org/hsh/1452475963.html

http://sierraproductsinc.net/pages/pdf/Sierra_Woodstoves.pdf

Just posted 30 mins ago so you better get on it.

Not sure what retail pricing is on it, this one is $999.

Wow, thanks, that also looks like a nice stove! It's amazing how you come up with these things everywhere! Those Sierras haven't really been on my radar but look like good stoves. However, I found a price list online that puts a brand new one at $1100, so with the drive and tolls (and lack of friends up there to load) it ends up almost even, lol! (online price does not seem to include SHIPPING however)
http://www.bbqsandfireplaces.com/pages/sierrastove.html

 

[mellow]

Doesn't mean you have to buy it for that price, you can offer lower. You should be able to apply for the 30% tax credit with that stove as well.

 

[tickbitty]

Doesn't mean you have to buy it for that price, you can offer lower. You should be able to apply for the 30% tax credit with that stove as well.

Hmm. A guy in Richmond (closer to me) has a sierra as well, that sounds fairly recent model and a little bigger. But he doesn't seem to know a model # and anyway I can't find a manual online for them to get the specifics on the surrounding combustibles....
I am a little worried about buying a used Cat stove. I am not sure why that would make a difference but I don't like the idea of having to replace the converter all the time at $200 a pop. (esp in a 3 to 600$ stove..?)
I dunno. Maybe I'm being a wuss.
Thanks Mellow.

 

[BrotherBart]

Maybe I'm being a wuss.

You aren't being a wuss. But there is a saying at the poker table that I have found extends to a lot of decisions in life.

"Think long. Think wrong."

Start getting things squared away with that chimney and a liner. Then when that "perfect" stove comes along you will be ready to pull the trigger. Personally that cat insert would have my head stuck in it right now checking it out.

Forget about a Sierra. Even though I used one for 21 years. It is either one from the 80's or from the new company in California. Parts would be a nightmare if not impossible. Being that the Sierra is here in Virginia it is probably from the old plant in Harrisonburg that closed twenty years ago. Parts and advice for that Englander are available on the phone and right over by Lynchburg from the factory. Or from their customer service manager Mike who is a member of this forum. Who may have welded up the stove himself on the line.

PM Mike, stoveguy2esw, and ask him what to look for when you look at the insert. If it hasn't already been sold.

 

[tickbitty]

Thanks -
Gotta love you guys! Actually, can't see the Englander (or anything else for that matter) till the weekend, so my CL surfing is just gravy now in case anything truly fabulous comes along in the meantime. The nice folks selling the Englander told me what time is good for them Sunday, and said that they got 4 other inquiries to come see it the first day they posted it, but that because I was the first to email them they were just going to hold everybody else off till I saw it and decided! How's that for service?! They must not know the first rule of Craigslist - which I learned the hard way - first person with the $ that shows up gets it, and that's it. No shows sucketh!
I'm just making sure something fantastic doesn't show up in the meantime. The Englander ppl still have the stove installed in their fireplace though, so it might take a second visit (with friends and dolly) if we decide to get it and can pick it up.

 

[BrotherBart]

What impresses me about that pic of the stove is that it looks like that candle is the only thing that has ever burned in it. Most black stoves look like hell in a flash picture but that one looks like the day it was made. And it surely hasn't been pulled out for a repaint.

Mike can tell ya a lot because for years he burned the free standing version of that stove to heat his house.

 

[tickbitty]

Awesome, thanks. I agree it looks pretty nice. Just like the one pictured on the parts part of their website actually.

Although I feel that it's still (- to my eye, forgive me) - a kinda uglyish stove. BUT other than that (and my Cat worries) , it's pretty much everything I am looking for, and the price is very decent allowing me a bit more for the liner and install (and maybe a new cat, sigh). I had hoped to haggle even more off the price it but considering they are putting people off for me to see it I suppose that may be "the" price!
Lol, I had no idea that was a candle in there. I thought maybe the cat converter had fallen out and they stuck it in there or something!

Thanks too for the information on the Sierra stoves. I was trying to figure out where they were made, etc. Does not seem to be a lot of info out there on them at all although they look like a nice stove and a good value. And see, this guy raves about the one he's sellin'! http://richmond.craigslist.org/for/1448675052.html

 

[BrotherBart]

The guy is full of it. That is the old Sierra free standing smoke dragon and the thing was $800 brand new. The new version of it only sells for $1700 and it has a front and side door now.

 

[tickbitty]

%-P

Will do re: Mike. (ETA, can't PM him, his PMs are full!)
Lady sent a picture of the inside. Looks pretty good I think. Cobwebs and all. Certainly sat a long time. There's another shot that shows the left side, that strip of metal comes down on a diagonal - not sure that it's supposed to do that!

 

[mellow]

Forget about a Sierra. Even though I used one for 21 years. It is either one from the 80's or from the new company in California. Parts would be a nightmare if not impossible.

Not sure if you are referring to the new stove link I provided, but parts are readily available for Sierra stoves, heck I was even able to find parts to rebuild my old one that SPI didn't even buy the plans to, so I wouldn't discount them so much. Between SPI and stovepartsunlimited I was able to get all the parts needed to rebuild my old Sierra stove, but I chose not to and buy a new one, I will find out this winter if I made a wrong choice.

 

[tickbitty]

Mellow - your current stove is a flame, right?
But your point is taken and the stove that you posted was a new stove, so presumably parts not an issue for some time. They look like fine stoves to me but as what seems like a smaller maker they don't seem to have as much info out there like pdfs of the manuals and whatnot.

 

[mellow]

Mellow - your current stove is a flame, right?

Yes

 

[tickbitty]

Just bumping this thread in the hopes that StoveguyESW might get a chance to check in and give me a tip on evaluating that used Englander, since I am checking it out tomorrow!

Mellow, I was pretty sure that BBart must have been referring to the Sierra that I posted, not the new one you posted. I really appreciate your help and advice as well as posting those, and would have surely been on it to check out either that one or the Appalachian you showed me up there, if they were just a bit closer!
Thanks! I asked about the flame because the dealer in Richmond sells what I think must be that same insert - for over $2000, so if you got it for $800 that's pretty great.

 

[BrotherBart]

Just send Mike an email. stoveguy2esw AT yahoo.com he puts it in his sig here on the forum.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

%-P

Will do re: Mike. (ETA, can't PM him, his PMs are full!)
Lady sent a picture of the inside. Looks pretty good I think. Cobwebs and all. Certainly sat a long time. There's another shot that shows the left side, that strip of metal comes down on a diagonal - not sure that it's supposed to do that!

stove certainly doesnt appear to have been abused at all, looking at the pic it seems to be in great shape. as for the strip of metal you referred to thats the secondary air channel for the cat. it allows a trickle of air in under the catalyst to assist in combustion within the cat.

stove sold new at approx 1100 bucks (ish) 375 is a teriffic price for one in good shape, the tell tale is the baffle bolted in the top , if the stove were to have been abused the baffle would show it even if it wasnt warped (which this one isnt and doesnt show the usual tells in the metal). only thing that you would need to still look into is the condition of teh catalyst (as they done exactly come out of a bubble gum machine, meaning they are pricy) if the owner was operating the stove in a proper manner the cat should still be in good condition, i have gotten upwards of 10 years out of that cat myself so if maintained i know they can last. if you intend to look and possibly come back and buy then what i would have you do if possible is examine the cat for degradation, a used cat will be light grey in color usually lighter in the center , if its black or appears to have dark buildup it may simply be plugged from improper operation but may not be bad, if its degrading it will have pieces missing or be dished out in the center visibly, or rounded off on the top edges, look closely for the appearance of a lot of hairline cracks in the cells as this is a sign of thermal shock (usually happens when wet wood is added to a hot fire while the cat is very hot) also look for "delamination" which appears in the form of flaking inside the cells , it looks like a thin layer in the cells has flaked off the walls of the cells, this also means the cat is terminal.

if you wish to chat about the stove or things to look at , feel free to contact me at my office , i'll be in monday at 8 eastern number is 800-245-6489 feel free to contact me at any time, happy to be of any help.

 

[raybonz]

Great looking stove if you ask me!! Great price to boot too.. Personally I like cat stoves and mine has lasted many years and the cats last a long time too... People here say good things about Englander stoves plus as they've said parts are available...

Good Luck!

Ray

 

[tickbitty]

Wonderful, Mike, thanks so much. We probably need to give the folks a yea or nay tomorrow so this is really valuable info for us. Will check the cat if I can figure out how to see it/get it out! I'll check the manual and see if that's doable with the thing still installed in their chimney. Appreciate your help very much.

Thanks Ray as well, I'm sure I will let you all know if we get it and will be back!