Free standing stove or insert

[tickbitty]

I'm voting for the insert since I think it would sit deeper into the firebox and leave more of the hearth brick revealed. There's not a lot of brick out front so I don't think it can sit all that much out there without additional protection. I count 8" brick in front with maybe another 8" (or less) brick behind it up to the facing. A stove sitting out in front would require addition protection. An insert may also require protection but since I don't have exact measurements cant tell.

You could install an insert and then mask the liner with a simple piece of black pipe wrapped around just for appearance, that way you could avoid using the plain paneling kits that most inserts use, also you would preserve your arched firebox but still have the flat top insert. You could also have custom panels made to exactly fit your opening too.

Much of your decision will have to come from what's there in terms of masonry and to what extent you want to modify that in order to fit the stove you want.

good luck

steve

Yep that can be really attractive too!

 

[My Oslo heats my home]

I'm voting for the insert since I think it would sit deeper into the firebox and leave more of the hearth brick revealed. There's not a lot of brick out front so I don't think it can sit all that much out there without additional protection. I count 8" brick in front with maybe another 8" (or less) brick behind it up to the facing. A stove sitting out in front would require addition protection. An insert may also require protection but since I don't have exact measurements cant tell.

You could install an insert and then mask the liner with a simple piece of black pipe wrapped around just for appearance, that way you could avoid using the plain paneling kits that most inserts use, also you would preserve your arched firebox but still have the flat top insert. You could also have custom panels made to exactly fit your opening too.

Much of your decision will have to come from what's there in terms of masonry and to what extent you want to modify that in order to fit the stove you want.

good luck

steve

Yep that can be really attractive too!

I like the framed picture.

 

[tickbitty]

I snagged it from the internet somewhere...
I think this OP has such a nice hearth setup that whatever he chooses is going to look great, (as long as he doesn't put a surround on an insert to block that pretty arch) so it's going to look great either way, whatever he chooses for the functionality of his abode!

 

[FPX Dude]

I ripped out a POS fireplace to put in ZC FPX because it's all I could the wifey to agree on. IF I could have, I would have actually had it re-bricked or re-tiled to just like yours and put in a free standing stove. Look thru the pix on this site and other sites to figure out what you really want then make it happen

 

[krex1010]

I love my insert, but if I had that setup I would definitely go with a freestanding stove.

 

[ColdNH]

Thanks for the compliments! it was definitly a nice selling feature of the house! unfortunatly the chimney mortar and damper are in such poor condition from never having a chimney cap, its not even safe to use it as a fireplace right now, Which wasnt a deal breaker as I had planned on a woodstove or insert with a liner anyways.

Those arched fireplace pictures you posted are perfect, almost the same exact hearth.

I think ill be putting a freestanding stove in the fireplace!

I snagged it from the internet somewhere...
I think this OP has such a nice hearth setup that whatever he chooses is going to look great, (as long as he doesn't put a surround on an insert to block that pretty arch) so it's going to look great either way, whatever he chooses for the functionality of his abode!

 

[firefighterjake]

A vote for the free standing stove if you have the room . . . some installs can be done quite nicely, no need for power/blower noise and I suspect you may get a little more heat off a free standing stove.

 

[JeffT]

After your second set of dimension's you will be limited in what will fit there with out some work.A little hearth extension and a rear venting stove and you'll be in business

 

[aansorge]

You can fit pretty much any stove in that hole.Even if it is tucked back in you will still get more heat out of a stove than an insert.If you can put a stove in there and still have 16'' out front why mess up a good looking hearth.

Not to hijack the thread, (and I am all for a hearth stove in this case too) But...
Just curious, but why does everyone always say that you will get more heat out of a stove than an insert, even if the stove is all the way in the hole of the fireplace? Seems to me, that if the stove is mostly inside the fireplace, it IS an insert, is it not? And most inserts, well mine anyway, is pretty much the same as a similar model stove (the Lopi Endeavor) but it doesn't have legs. What it DOES have is a jacket on the part of the stove that is furthest back in the fireplace, so the heat isn't just heating up the inside of the chimney, and blowers on the front, to put the heat out front. I love freestanding stoves and all, but wonder why inserts are supposedly "inferior" for heating even when compared to a stove tucked INTO the fireplace. If the firebox is a similar size, I imagine the heat would be the same. Now, if the stove is truly freestanding and not in the chimney, I would just assume there is more heat opportunity there. Sorry to be so long winded!

Everyone is avoiding your question... I'll give it a shot. I agree with what you are saying, that in insert is basically a wood stove without legs, PLUS a fan to extract the heat. A stove has only one real advantage, no fan to run. This saves a little on electricity and a lot on noise. In terms of heat production, I imagine they are pretty similar. However, if the stove is really buried in the fireplace, maybe the heat production of an insert may be better?

I have a ZC fireplace (Enerzone 2.5) it has two blowers: one for the main floor and one that goes to the basement. The fireplace does a good job at heating this Minnesota, 3000 sq ft home. Only on the absolute most frigid days do I wish for a bigger unit. It has been keeping my house between 73 and 80 degrees so far this year.

Long story short: Fireplaces and inserts have merit for certain applications.

 

[ColdNH]

So the wife and I really want to get a Jotul Oslo F500 for the fireplace opening now, the one issue is the stove is 26" high (with the shorter legs) and needs 30" of clearance above it. The mantle is 5" too low, it only protrudes out like 2-3 inches. I really dont want to put one of those ugly heat shields on it, replacing it with stone would be an option but alot of work and I like the wood.

I know stove manufactures have clearances for a reason, but 30" seems like alot.

any ideas?

Its an interior chimney.

Mantle too close! how much clearance do those things need!

Looks like 30" from stove to mantle. The stove is about 29" itself, so close to 5 foot from the hearth.

The mantle thing was sort of a deal breaker for my setup. I say sort of because I could have removed it or switched it to non-combustible, or shielded maybe...but boss didn't want to and I kind of didn't either.

I'm using data from Jotul manual about 5 years old, so don't be afraid to double check.

ETA: That is for a stove fully out on the hearth. Halfway into the fireplace would probably be better.
Just counting bricks, it looks like your mantle is about 48" off the hearth. Your whole setup looks real nice to my eye...I would shield that mantle and keep it.

+1, looking at current Jotul numbers shows 30" from stovetop to mantel, stove is 29" . Nothing over 12" wide.

 

[granpajohn]

I agree that the 30" seems like a lot. But let's look at the 2-3" width you mention.
I've looked all over my computer, and a little on the web for it, but can't find a drawing...which I thought was from Jotul...which gives a sort of matrix reducing the vertical clearance in steps as the mantle gets narrower.
But I just can't find it now. Maybe a Jotul dealer could help.
One other thing...this is a matter of taste, but I once saw a mantle shield somewhere on Hearth.com that actually looked pretty good. He might have used copper, not steel. Not sure. Either way, it was much more sleek than the one TickBitty posted above.

Another killer for me was the question of how to get to the cleanout tee on the pipe behind the stove, without moving the stove every year. (If you use one). Looks like you have more room, so maybe not an issue. Or, maybe you have a stronger back than me and don't care about it.

If I get time, I'll make one more look for that chart. Else, I'm all talk and no help.

 

[ColdNH]

Hmm i would be intersted to see that chart, i tried to look for it as well, closest thing i found was for a fireplace. I like the copper idea tho, that actually wouldnt look too bad, if done right it would blend in good.

I agree that the 30" seems like a lot. But let's look at the 2-3" width you mention.
I've looked all over my computer, and a little on the web for it, but can't find a drawing...which I thought was from Jotul...which gives a sort of matrix reducing the vertical clearance in steps as the mantle gets narrower.
But I just can't find it now. Maybe a Jotul dealer could help.
One other thing...this is a matter of taste, but I once saw a mantle shield somewhere on Hearth.com that actually looked pretty good. He might have used copper, not steel. Not sure. Either way, it was much more sleek than the one TickBitty posted above.

Another killer for me was the question of how to get to the cleanout tee on the pipe behind the stove, without moving the stove every year. (If you use one). Looks like you have more room, so maybe not an issue. Or, maybe you have a stronger back than me and don't care about it.

If I get time, I'll make one more look for that chart. Else, I'm all talk and no help.

 

[cmonSTART]

You could probably do a very minimal heat shield under the mantel which would blend in OK.

I looked through the manual and the only spec I see is the 30" requirement, so that's what you should go by.

 

[granpajohn]

And another weird thing. I did find a Regency book, (since superseded), that had the clearance as 26" US, 23" Canada. (molecules are cooler there?) That's for the h2100 HearthHeater, a unit I desired but didn't quite fit.

I measured my mantle at home, and find it is 8" wide. And I'm certain that it was too close for the Jotul.
At the time, I had just built the mantle about a year earlier and would have had to move it up 3 more courses of brick, more or less.

Big Edit: I found the chart, but it is for the insert, not the freestanding. It is more detailed than the ones I saw elsewhere. Range of clearance is from 55.5" for a 12" mantel to 49.5" for a 3.5" mantel. These numbers are from the hearth, not stovetop. I will try to post a scan when I get back to work next week.

And forget everything I said about the pipe access too. That would be the same for any stove, more or less.

Well, it's on page 8 of this book:
http://www.jotul.no/FileArchive/Technical Documentation/Wood inserts (USA)/Jøtul C 450 Kennebec/Manual_138344_D_C450 Manual_SD.pdf

 

[mtcates]

Maybe replace the wood mantle with a stone one.

 

[Jackfre]

I just pulled my insert and was happy that someone would come and pick it up. From a maintenance standpoint it is easier and therefore better to have a freestanding, imho. My Encore was delivered today. The liner system on my insert is Dura-liner and it is an excellent system & well done, but trying to clean the flue regularly with that insert was a nightmare, and even for the most fastidious, that means the job gets put off, etc. Just look at the way your system will lay-out and think about that simple access. To me, that means freestanding every time. That is a beautiful space. Options are great. let us know what you are going to do.

 

[Milton Findley]

He could go with a soapstone stove and not worry about shielding the mantle. As this is an interior chimney, he will get all of the heat that does not go up the chimney, just not all at once.

 

[ColdNH]

He could go with a soapstone stove and not worry about shielding the mantle. As this is an interior chimney, he will get all of the heat that does not go up the chimney, just not all at once.

I like the soapstones, i just dont visually like them on my hearth. the colors of the stone dont match anything and the shape of stove doesnt blend well with the arch. Im just being real picky as this is the focal point of the room plus the wife doesnt like them so its fighting a loosing battle.

I did think of putting a stone mantel in but it seems like alot of work and money for something that I will visually like less to solve a minor problem.

I think ill end up running a piece of copper along the bottom edge of the mantel so it will blend in. I duno.

 

[Stump_Branch]

Had an insert, yanked it and put a hearth stove there. Ie free stand, much better.

I agree with begreen on the woodstocks with that arch.