Fuel cost thread...

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SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Thought I'd initiate a fuel cost thread in as much as fuel cost is climbing like a rocket ship here.

Regular unleaded: $2.80
On road diesel: $3.30

Of more consequence is the price of propane. It's up from $2.25 a gallon to $2.55 a gallon

Have a feeling that by summer, gas prices will be around $4.00 a gallon, diesel will be $4.50 a gallon and propane will be $3.00 a gallon

Of course as fuel prices climb, the cost of manufactured fuel like wood pellets will also increase.

Viscious circle perpetrated by poor politics.

So, what are you paying locally?

Hope you have an economy car like I do. My 40 mpg is looking real good.
 
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clancey

Feeling the Heat
Feb 26, 2021
325
Colorado


This might help to look at some comparsions nationwide.. 40mg--what kind of vehicle do you have? I have a old 99 Toyta Tacoma that seems to get good gas mileage but nothing like yours--show off--lol lol. I really do not drive that much "flip" just to what I have to do for everything is so much traffic nowadays but I will drive to get wood for my future stove--ha ha...Keep plugging old timer...Thanks clancey
 
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SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
2014 Ford Focus SE Hatch with a 5 speed that I keep in tip top shape (I do all my own work). I can actually do a bit better than 40 in the summer but I'm averaging winter and summer together. 2.4 liter 4 cylinder GDI with 230 horses. As a rule, I don't do imported cars. My Focus was built at Wayne Assembly by union autoworkers who I also support. I suspect if it was a slush-o-matic it would be less but I prefer a standard transmission.

Newer Focus' are Hencho Mexico now. Not in my cards.

Don't much care about nationwide fuel costs, the only cost I'm concerned about is what I pay at the pump actually.
 

JRHAWK9

Minister of Fire
Jan 8, 2014
1,638
Wisconsin Dells, WI
I just called on LP by us. It's down to $2.00/gallon from where it was a couple weeks ago at $2.35.

Gas is $2.50 for 87 octane. Diesel is $2.72.
 

Dataman

Minister of Fire
Sep 10, 2018
927
Newport, Wa
Fuel costs are going up because of Texas. Refineries offline because of the cold. Will take months to get them back running. Plus switching to summer gas. Nothing Political
 
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johneh

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2009
3,370
Eastern Ontario
In Eastern Ontario Canada
Reg. Gas went up 10 cents a liter today
to 1:24.9
or 567.04 $ per imperial Gal.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Fuel costs are going up because of Texas. Refineries offline because of the cold. Will take months to get them back running. Plus switching to summer gas. Nothing Political
Whatever you are smoking, send me some...........

Could have fooled me. it's everything political but then you comment tells me what you ascribe to. Today is as cheap as it will ever be in the foreseeable future.
 

Bad LP

Minister of Fire
Nov 28, 2014
1,510
Northern Maine
Fuel costs are going up because of Texas. Refineries offline because of the cold. Will take months to get them back running. Plus switching to summer gas. Nothing Political
Don't bogart whatever your smoking. lol
 

Bad LP

Minister of Fire
Nov 28, 2014
1,510
Northern Maine
LP delivery was yesterday. 291 [email protected]

That's up .10 from the last delivery on 1-20-2021. I'm 95% confident our LP comes from Canada so that disproves the Texas angle.
EDIT after the Sidecar Flip comment I'll add the first LP delivery for the current heating season on 11-25 was also 2.259.

Those numbers also represent a leased tank arrangement.
 
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SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
So does our propane actually. Comes from Sarnia, Ontario. One of my good friends owns the propane company we buy from and I know where he picks it up at. Certainly not domestically produced.

Trying the keep the political angle out of this thread and keep tabs on the rising cost of fuel and the impact on spendable income.

Far as refineries go, people assume that 'all' the refineries are situated in the Baytown /Houston area and that isn't true. In fact, there are two large refineries, one south of me in Toledo (Oregon) Ohio and another south of Detroit (River Rouge), Michigan and they are scattered elsewhere around the country and in Canada, Sarnia, Ontario for example (where most of our propane here comes from.

Have no desire to discuss the political ramifications, I think we all realize what Biden did with his EO's. Don't take a 'rocket scientist' to see what they are doing. When you go from a net exporter of energy to a net importer of energy via executive fiat, bad things start happening to the citizens.

I also realize that we all use alternative fuels to heat our homes with (biomass fuels like processed wood pellets and in my case corn) but we all still use motor fuel for our automobiles and I for one, use propane to power my central furnace which I use during extremely cold weather as my biomass stove cannot carry the entire heat load.

The other somewhat hidden aspect is the overall impact on food and manufactured goods. Rising energy costs negatively impact that. Rising fuel costs are passed on in the form of rising retail prices for the very commodities necessary to sustain life. It's totally false economy to think that farmers (like myself) won't increase the cost of our harvested crops to reflect the fuel increases. I know I will. My input costs, seed, fertilizer and fuel costs, I'll pass along in the form of increased prices and that will directly impact your prices at the supermarket. You do have to eat, besides putting gas in your buggy.

All I'm attempting to do with this thread is watch those increasing prices as it pertains to motor fuel in various parts of the country and Canada. Nothing more, but to make a statement that it's not political and it's because of the refineries in the Baytown / Houston, Texas area are idle is totally false. It is entirely political and has little to do with those refineries.

Why I pre-bought all my fuel and stored it in bulk before this all went down. Myself, other than input costs like fertilizer and seed, I've negated at least for this season but next season, I too will be dealing with increased costs and I will also pass on those costs to you, the consumer.

It's a viscous circle and it's all controlled by politics and all of you, as end users, get to pay the increased cost of bad political decisions. How it plays.

Lets stick to the retail pump prices and forego the political aspects please.
 
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SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
It’ll be interesting to see what the chosen reason is in a year or two when it’s even worse.
I wonder if healthy people will still be hiding in their homes wearing muzzles frightened of the flu.

I don't think so. I believe we are approaching 'Herd Immunity' now that the vaccines are becoming widely available. In fact I received my first Moderna injection yesterday (my arm is sore), with the second scheduled in 3 weeks. I suspect that we will never return to the pre Covid levels that were the norm a year and a half ago, but the 'hermit life' we are dealing with presently will subside quite a bit.

Far as a 'muzzle' go's, for us, it was always a voluntary choice. I'm not one to be forced into compliance, never have been. I tend to resist that kind of mandate. However, I never wanted to contract Covid so I (we) complied but by choice, not mandate and we will continue with it until such time as the chances of contracting Covid are mitigated to the point where it's highly unlikely that we can catch it.

How we play. I plan on being around for a while yet. We lost some family member to Covid. it's not the way I want to expire. I prefer a much more sedate death myself.
 

firefighterjake

Minister of Fire
Jul 22, 2008
19,371
Unity/Bangor, Maine
. .. I prefer a much more sedate death myself.
“When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.” -- Will Rogers
 
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JRHAWK9

Minister of Fire
Jan 8, 2014
1,638
Wisconsin Dells, WI

Seems federal fuel prices bottomed out around 4/24/20 at $1.87/gal

On 1/18/20 they were $2.46/gal....or a 31.5% rise from April to January.
On 3/1/21 they were $2.80/gal...or an increase of 13.8% from January.

If people want to make this political and blame certain political party's policies on the rising fuel prices, then the data suggests the incoming party actually slowed down the rising fuel prices. Do I believe this to be the case. No. It's mostly global supply vs demand. Demand is what it is. Supply can be regulated by the cartels though, the same as how diamond prices are kept artificially high by the diamond cartels controlling the supply of something they have an abundance of simply to keep diamond prices high.

Price of crude bottomed out the same time as fuel prices did....at the end of April 2020 when the demand fell off a cliff due to the pandemic.

Also, fuel prices, historically, have generally rose ramping up to summer and then fallen during winter due to demand.

1614872886433.png
 
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SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Just keep an eye on your graph over time. Not just a snapshot. Again, national averages don't reflect local pricing at all.
 

JRHAWK9

Minister of Fire
Jan 8, 2014
1,638
Wisconsin Dells, WI
Just keep an eye on your graph over time.
I fully expect them to keep increasing as demand increases if supply doesn't follow suit. Gas prices go as the price of crude goes. I also fully expect them to keep increasing as summer approaches and then fall some again for winter.....just as they have historically done.

Again, national averages don't reflect local pricing at all.
National averages are the averages of local/regional pricing. It's just like STFT vs LTFT in the tuning world.

1614881798216.png
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Go take a look at the stock market too. Better be holding on your your shorts...
 

JRHAWK9

Minister of Fire
Jan 8, 2014
1,638
Wisconsin Dells, WI
Go take a look at the stock market too. Better be holding on your your shorts...
Why all the fear-mongering?

I've heard people say that in the past too. My investments did better from '09 to '16 than they did from '16 to '20. The historical graphs of the DJI show why. Nobody knows what the future holds though.

1/1/09 - 12/31/16: from ~7,063 to ~19,763
+279.8%

1614887220742.png


1/1/2017 - 12/31/20: from ~19,964 to ~30,606
+153.3%

1614887115096.png
 
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Dataman

Minister of Fire
Sep 10, 2018
927
Newport, Wa
LP delivery was yesterday. 291 [email protected]

That's up .10 from the last delivery on 1-20-2021. I'm 95% confident our LP comes from Canada so that disproves the Texas angle.
EDIT after the Sidecar Flip comment I'll add the first LP delivery for the current heating season on 11-25 was also 2.259.

Those numbers also represent a leased tank arrangement.
Fuel prices are set in the Market. if it goes up in Texas it goes up in Canada. International Market. Has nothing to do with where it comes from. Communities Exchange
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Fuel prices are set in the Market. if it goes up in Texas it goes up in Canada. International Market. Has nothing to do with where it comes from. Communities Exchange
Wrong. Propane prices are set by region. You have the eastern region, the midwest region and the western region and they are all independent of each other.

That may apply to export propane but not domestically consumed gas.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Why all the fear-mongering?
Not at all. I'm almost 100% invested in Berkshire Hathaway and Warren does real well for me, In fact, I have no worries about my investments.

Have a 7 figure net worth actually.

I'm not concerned with any long term liquidity. I am concerned with short term market volatility because it impacts my day to day life. Fuel prices come under short term.

Lets just say, if I want something I go buy it and pay cash.
 
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