Furnace shopping

[mainer10]

My Benjamin FS140 has seen its last days, which I am in the process of looking for a replacement. I know I want a wood/oil or possibly a pellet furnace. I am looking for any recommendations based on real world folks input. I am also interested in the brands to avoid. My Benjamin was ok, but there were certain aspects, I disliked.

Thanks in advance!

 

[brenndatomu]

There are no wood/oil models being made now...although SBI has plans to release a Caddy with oil or gas backup, at least the last I heard they still did.
I gave up on the combo stuff and just installed a Kuuma Vaporfire 100 and a separate oil furnace as my backup. The VF100 and the Drolet (SBI) Heat Commander are the only 2 forced air wood furnaces left anymore in the states...well, there is one other option, but trust me, you don't want one.

 

[LogCabinFever]

As stated. PSG has plans to release a combo version of the Advanced furnace w/ options for electric, oil, and “possibly” propane in conjunction with wood. That’s literally your only option.

There’s several of us here that are waiting for that model to be released. The initial plans were spring/summer of this year, but due to production delays and worldwide supply chain issues, it’s slated for the tail end of this year….most likely 2023 at this point though. We haven’t heard anything from PSG in quite a while, so I’m not sure that status.

I’d honestly be surprised if they even offer oil as an option. EPA regulations have gotten so tight, that they may have trouble pushing it through. But no one else is doing it, so I don’t know how the testing is regulated with combo furnaces.

 

[mainer10]

That explains why I find nothing doing a quick search.

There are no wood/oil models being made now...although SBI has plans to release a Caddy with oil or gas backup, at least the last I heard they still did.
I gave up on the combo stuff and just installed a Kuuma Vaporfire 100 and a separate oil furnace as my backup. The VF100 and the Drolet (SBI) Heat Commander are the only 2 forced air wood furnaces left anymore in the states...well, there is one other option, but trust me, you don't want one.

That explains why I am unable to find anything. So out of the VF100 and the heat commander, which one is better in your opinion? Lastly, with two separate units what does that entail for space and budget?

 

[mainer10]

This explains a lot as to why I have found no information. I had a love hate relationship with my Benjamin and quite honestly if I went one way or the other it would be hate. Maine is offering additional incentives but they are geared towards outdoor models with no back up or the European pellet boiler/furnaces, which I can find nothing about and I am sure the prices are steep. Sadly time is not on my side to see how is plays out with PSG. So it sounds like one wood and one oil it is going to be.

 

[LogCabinFever]

Drolet Commander and the Caddy Advanced are sister furnaces. Both excellent furnaces. The VF100 is also excellent.

Performance wise, I would say they are all within a couple percent of each other in efficiency. Basically, very similar.

However, from what I see on the forum, the VF 100 is generally the favored one if price were no object. To me, it’s for the following reasons: 1) longer track record. The furnace has been out for a long time and was efficient before efficiency was cool. So the bugs are pretty much worked out. 2) the warranty is slightly better than at least the Drolet, not sure about the Advanced.

For the price point though, the Heat Commander is hard to beat, and Drolet is a reputable company for sure.

As far as pricing for separate furnaces, that’ll obviously be considerably more expensive than a combination furnace. The cost can vary depending on your needs and how you route the separate ductwork, but it’ll be $10k-15k minimum I would say, unless you do everything yourself.

 

[bholler]

And don't forget you will need a second chimney as well

 

[mainer10]

Just looking quickly the VF100 seems appealing given it level 2 certification and warranty. The fact that it would qualify for the federal rebate makes the price more appealing too! It also seems that most parts are replaceable, which would seem to extend the life.

I have two separate flues in my chimney so that would suffice I believe?

So you referenced ductwork, does that mean the wood and back up cannot share the same duct work? My budget as it stands is 15-20k as I would like this to be a long term solution.

Any thoughts on back up oil systems that would only have to run if we leave the home for a extended period of time?

 

[brenndatomu]

So out of the VF100 and the heat commander, which one is better in your opinion? Lastly, with two separate units what does that entail for space and budget?

Well, I have had the opportunity to run both...there was a clear winner, the VF100.
To me the HC is "consumer grade" and the VF100 is "pro grade"...both in quality and in refinement of operation. Don't get me wrong, the HC works OK, but I was already spoiled by the VF, so I wasn't real impressed. The HC did land a couple good punches though...it has a window in the door, and is easier to clean the HX too...that, and its cheaper...but, I think in the long run that will kinda come out in the wash so to speak, when the VF outlasts the HC by 20-30 years. (I think the HC is a 10 year product and the VF is a 30-40 year product)
As far as space, yeah it takes up a little more room, but the oil burner I bought is really pretty compact, so it wasn't too bad...I did have limited room to work with though, as I have a "furnace room" and my ductwork is pretty complicated and would have been difficult/expensive to change...fortunately I was able to make a couple minor modifications and it all came together.

I have two separate flues in my chimney so that would suffice I believe?

So you referenced ductwork, does that mean the wood and back up cannot share the same duct work? My budget as it stands is 15-20k as I would like this to be a long term solution.

Any thoughts on back up oil systems that would only have to run if we leave the home for a extended period of time?

As long as one of those flues is up to par for running a modern efficient wood burner on it, then sure.

Normally they can share ductwork...just takes a little thought as how to tie things together to make it all work right, and safely.

Should be able to set it up so that the oil just kicks on automatically when it gets down to the temp you set it at...nothing too special about it really.

 

[LogCabinFever]

Only 10 yrs for the HC? You really don’t think it’ll last longer than that?

What’s your opinion on the Caddy Advanced then?

What’s the sense in buying any wood stove/furnace if it only lasts 10yrs? Even dishwashers last longer than that!

 

[brenndatomu]

Only 10 yrs for the HC? You really don’t think it’ll last longer than that?

Some will I'm sure.

What’s your opinion on the Caddy Advanced then?

None really...but I'm pretty sure its the same furnace except for electronic features...and some options.

Even dishwashers last longer than that!

Not always...I've recently heard some really PO'd people ranting about appliances that didn't make it out of the single digits age wise

 

[mainer10]

Last question about the VF100. What is the maintenance like? One of my biggest complaints with Benjamin was they utilized a proprietary seals for the heat exchanger that had significantly increase in pricing over the years and we’re always a huge pain in the rear to order from them.

 

[blades]

Current appliances- lucky to get past the end of any warranties

 

[brenndatomu]

Last question about the VF100. What is the maintenance like? One of my biggest complaints with Benjamin was they utilized a proprietary seals for the heat exchanger that had significantly increase in pricing over the years and we’re always a huge pain in the rear to order from them.

No maintenance really...just clean the HX couple times per year...no parts needed for that.
On mine I totally clean it out and unhook it from the chimney for the summer, then hang a desiccant bag inside to keep the moisture down for the summer...probably overkill, but just how I tend to roll.
And Lamppa MFG is easy to order parts from if needed...just call or email Dale or Tanner, they normally have everything in stock..

 

[mainer10]

Great, I am sold now just need to find someone to install it! I greatly appreciate you taking your time to spread your knowledge!

 

[brenndatomu]

Great, I am sold now just need to find someone to install it! I greatly appreciate you taking your time to spread your knowledge!

Or install it yourself...they have a bunch of videos to make it easy...or if you still have questions, they'll walk you (or your contractor) through it

kuuma install videos - Google Search

 

[JRHAWK9]

Great, I am sold

good choice!

 

[woodey]

So you referenced ductwork, does that mean the wood and back up cannot share the same duct work?

They can share the same ducts with installation of few dampers. Mine do and it works great. Keep in mind you can also install propane as your back up.

 

[mainer10]

So I binged the install videos as well as a few others on installing dampers and I surely can do this myself! I figured I would stick with oil since I have the tank roughly half full from the Benjamin. Nonetheless, I have a few contractors working up quotes for oil and propane systems to see the cost. I cannot say enough good things about this forum.

 

[mainer10]

Unreal, I have contacted 8 heating contractors, which I am only asking them to run a new back-up to supplement the wood furnace and not one of them will take it on!! Yet stove shops install wood stoves daily, which are infinitely more dangerous then a wood furnace. They all literally want nothing to do with wood period. This is so frustrating

 

[brenndatomu]

I am only asking them to run a new back-up to supplement the wood furnace

You are saying that they won't even come put a new oil furnace in for you?!
If this is the case, you may have to just not mention the wood furnace, then install the VF yourself...act as your own GC and just have a local shop make any custom duct pieces as needed.

 

[mainer10]

Exactly what I am saying! Plenty of outdoor boiler, pellet furnaces, and wood stove installers, but not one taker for a wood furnace. I got a few more, I am waiting for a response from, but it is looking as though I will have to withhold the truth.

 

[brenndatomu]

Many places don't want to install anything that they don't sell. You might consider contacting a chimney sweep...some of them will do installs too...might be a long shot for a wood furnace though.
Have you asked Lamppa if they can recommend anyone in your area? Sometimes they know of people from past customers....

 

[lampmfg]

Many places don't want to install anything that they don't sell. You might consider contacting a chimney sweep...some of them will do installs too...might be a long shot for a wood furnace though.
Have you asked Lamppa if they can recommend anyone in your area? Sometimes they know of people from past customers....

Honesty, we know very few installers throughout the country because we lack a dealer network. We're just lucky to have Dale, who can assist as much as he does with everyone. On a side note, we had a customer from the New York area call us today saying the company who just installed his new VF was very impressed with the furnace build quality.

 

[Rockstar1346]

Exactly what I am saying! Plenty of outdoor boiler, pellet furnaces, and wood stove installers, but not one taker for a wood furnace. I got a few more, I am waiting for a response from, but it is looking as though I will have to withhold the truth.

In my area most won’t install anything they don’t sell. You almost have to find their workers on Facebook or something and contact them direct if they want to make side cash. Most don’t like dealing with furnaces because the weight difference and it’s not as easy to get where you want. I’d put out an ad online or something you might get some bites there. But as many said I’d give it a go and try to install yourself. I bought the HC last year and did the whole install myself with ductwork and everything. Trust me if I can do it anyone can..