Garden - tomato seedlings too big?

[semipro]

Strangely though, I miss tilling. I somehow got a lot of satisfaction from turning the garden remains into pretty rows of loose and inviting soil.

 

[johnpma]

Strangely though, I miss tilling. I somehow got a lot of satisfaction from turning the garden remains into pretty rows of loose and inviting soil.

I love tilling between my rows and grinding up all weeds down into the earth. My town (which is extremely liberal and spends money on things that don't matter) hired gardening consultants to develop futuristic park vegetation sites needless to say their means of creativity two years later are extremely ugly, and have yet to start decomposing but the "green beans" in town voted it necessary as our town is built on rock and the park needed garden beds to plant in lol

 

[Mellery]

Hey Nelson, it's been a couple weeks and your weather looks pretty good for planting. Have you put them in the ground yet? (looks like you 'might' have risk of last frost yet - you could throw a sheet over them if you see freeze warning)

I like to till but I hate killing the advantageous earthworms in the process.

 

[Nelson]

Hey Mellery-

They are in the ground as of last weekend! so far, so good, on the weather front. Going to dip to 40 for a low early next week for a night or two, but temps look to rebound quickly after that.

The plants are doing pretty good so far - it's been really windy this past week so they are getting a workout - one advantage of having tall plants is that I was able to plant them pretty deep so they are holding up to the wind/rain.

They haven't really put on a lot of new growth yet but they look just fine so here's to hoping. I will see if I have a pic to post.

Thanks for checking in!

 

[Nelson]

Quick pic

 

[Jags]

Hmmm...is the plant density intentional? Thats alot of plants for such a small area.

 

[Nelson]

Hey Jags-

Yes, it's intentional. I went with a slightly smaller spacing of 14-15" as opposed to 16" recommendation. The pic might be a little deceiving. It's a 4x8 bed and the plants were larger than I would have liked. I believe the cages are 16" across at the top. It's certainly a little bit of an experiment. I wanted to see how many plants I could get in the bed. To be honest, I almost went three across on the 4' span.

 

[Jags]

Interesting. Wondering aloud...it will be interesting to see if this has any negative impact on growth.

 

[begreen]

Seems like a lot of competition for light and root space once those tomatoes grow to full size. A healthy, full-grown plant can be 4-5ft tall and 24" around. Keeping air and light through the plant is important for its health. This becomes more important later in the season for holding off blight.

 

[semipro]

Hey Jags-

Yes, it's intentional. I went with a slightly smaller spacing of 14-15" as opposed to 16" recommendation. The pic might be a little deceiving. It's a 4x8 bed and the plants were larger than I would have liked. I believe the cages are 16" across at the top. It's certainly a little bit of an experiment. I wanted to see how many plants I could get in the bed. To be honest, I almost went three across on the 4' span.

I plant this way every year, four tomato plants per 4x4 raised bed. Yours is a little tighter in the long direction.
There's actually a sound basis for tight planting to reduced weeding and watering. Look up "square foot" gardening or the "french intensive" method.
Here's how tomatoes end up when planted tightly.

 

[begreen]

I'm doing this in large rubbermaid containers in the greenhouse right now. Just harvested a nice head of broccoli. But I'm going to have to remove that beautiful plant. There's a couple tomatoes in there too and they are already pushing 3 ft tall. Crowding doesn't reduce watering needs. More competition drains out the water quickly. I have water that tub once a day now.

 

[semipro]

Sure, water per square foot is higher because the vegetation is denser. However, since the plants shade the soil more with tight plantings, evaporation from soil is decreased and overall water loss is decreased.. That's the theory anyway. The lack of sunlight exposure at the ground also supposedly shades out competing weeds.

 

[begreen]

I clear out all bottom leaves from the tomato plants once it is approaching full size. This increases air circulation and improves blight resistance. The plants are typically bare stem for the first foot. In our raised beds there are very few weeds. It's one of the reasons we did the beds, no weeding.

 

[Nelson]

Great discussion! Love that pic of the 4x4. Though, it looks like there are more than 4 in there??? Our tomato plants growing up were never that big so I will be very curious to see how mine turn out.

I based off of spacing directions per the seed packet (I didn't have much else to go on as this is my first year - at least in a raised bed). Packets all said plant transplants 16" apart (though, is that from the stem or the furthest leaf/branch??). We will see.

I have also been following guidance from The Vegetable Gardeners bible. In here, he suggests 15" apart down a single row.

I will definitely do my best to keep updating this thread with progress. Love the garden chat and nothing beats real world experience.

 

[Nelson]

Jags, others, what are your thoughts on spacing? Do you have a specific measurement you use?

 

[begreen]

It varies with the plants and how one plants them. I put our roma style tomatoes all in a line 16" apart. They get crowded side to side but it is only a single row so they can fill out sideways as much as they like. Our regular tomatoes this year are spaced 18" in a staggered pattern of two rows. By the end of the season they will be overlapping each other. To keep things healthy be sure to keep suckering under control. Prune back to the main stem at least weekly. Indeterminate tomato varieties like to sprawl, especially cherry tomato varieties like sweet million. Keeping the plant clean and lean also makes picking easier and speeds up ripening.

This pic is from last year early July. There are 4 roma tomatoes in the front right bed with two cherry tomato plants behind them.

 

[Jags]

Pretty much what BG said - but he is by FAR a more experienced gardener than I am. I plant stuff. I eat what survives.

 

[Mellery]

Nice raised bed, Nelson With our raised beds (never veggies as the deer would scarf them up) we have to water every other day in the summer and that's for greenery like ferns, ground cover, etc that deer don't like, but really mostly rock garden.

Just if you can keep an eye on the plants and soil moisture all will be well. Key (IMHO) is that you visually visit them every single day and stick your finger in the soil so you know what's happening underneath.

Tight or lose planted, you're going to have lots of tomatoes.. so delicious!

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I used to till -- stopped about 4 years ago. I doubt I'll ever go back. I just keep adding organic matter as mulch and the soil and critters living there are loving it.
http://www.no-dig-vegetablegarden.com/no-till-gardening.html

I rarely dig without finding many earthworms. Since I decided not tot chop them up with a tiller anymore they have agreed to till for me. And no, halved worms don't grow into two worms.
http://www.livescience.com/38371-two-worms-worm-cut-in-half.html

I do the same. Never going back to all that work, with lower yield.

 

[Jags]

I tried the no till stuff for the last 3 years (with AP's urgings). Going back to tilling. It has more to do with the dirt than not being a success. I live in an area that has truly "black" dirt. I am finding that I do need to get it ground up once in a while or it turns to cement (even with yearly applications of compost). It just is what it is.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I tried the no till stuff for the last 3 years (with AP's urgings). Going back to tilling. It has more to do with the dirt than not being a success. I live in an area that has truly "black" dirt. I am finding that I do need to get it ground up once in a while or it turns to cement (even with yearly applications of compost). It just is what it is.

Well, I have looked for clay deposits for years without success here (mostly sand), so it stands to reason that it would work differently.

 

[Jags]

Well, I have looked for clay deposits for years without success here (mostly sand), so it stands to reason that it would work differently.

I gave it the old college try. I like the idea of less work. It just didn't pan out.

 

[billb3]

Quick pic

I never found those tomato cages were good for anything but peppers.But fo peppers they are great !
My tomatoes will get 6,7, 10 feet tall if I don't top them.

Cages or a wire fence ( like concrete reinforcement) with large openings works better for indeterminates that one might allow several central leaders, but for determinates I use old VHF antennas for poles and use garden velcro to attach them to the pole for vertical growth and heavy tomato support.


I'll also stick the snapped off suckers in some wet potting soil to get them to root and have some more tomato plants. They catch up pretty quick in the Summer heat.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I never found those tomato cages were good for anything but peppers.
My tomatoes will get 6,7, 10 feet tall if I don't top them.

Cages or a wire fence ( like concrete reinforcement) with large openings works better for indeterminates that one might allow several central leaders, but for determinates I use old VHF antennas for poles and use garden velcro to attach them to the pole for vertical growth and heavy tomato support.


I'll also stick the snapped off suckers in some wet potting soil to get them to root and have some more tomato plants. They catch up pretty quick in the Summer heat.

Love seeing other people's ingenuity.

I use the "Florida weave"- have green garden fence posts permanently driven for the purpose. http://www.webgrower.com/information/tomato_florida-weave-method.html

 

[billb3]

Love seeing other people's ingenuity.

tomatoes on wire fence and poles

cucumbers on wire "fence" and T-posts