GE Geospring heat pump water heater - Should I?

[legrandice]

When I purchased my house in 2005 it came with a 3 panel solar hot water system with 120 gal tank. It worked up until last summer when the storage tank finally gave up and split. That is a great return on investment for a system that was installed in 1986! A new storage tank alone would run 2K, and the roof panels are getting quite tired so it was time to decommission it. I drained it out and GULP....flipped the switch on the oil boiler GAAH. After living for so long with free hot water in the summer, I was not happy to see the oil tank going down. I heat almost entirely with wood so all of my oil use is for hot water.

I currently have my hot water heated with my 2005 AO smith boiler with hot water. No external storage tank is being used now that the solar is out.

I am just about ready to pull the trigger on the GE geospring 50 gal waterheater:
http://www.geappliances.com/heat-pump-hot-water-heater/

I do have a few concerns and need to make up my mind by the end of the year to get the 300 tax credit. There is no credit available from my local utility.

Concerns:

I only have 100A service here and the cost to upgrade is huge. I would probably want to run this unit in heat pump mode during the summer when I am running the central air. I would keep the oil for backup if needed.

If I get this unit, my oil boiler will only be used when we go on vacation or have lots of people staying here and need the hot water. I am concerned about the long periods of inactivity. When on solar, the boiler would be off for months at a time....so I guess it would be ok.


Sorry for the long rant...I tend to over think everything!

 

[woodgeek]

Short answer....if you have a good location for it then YES. IIRC, the max current draw on the unit is not that high, if you have free circuit that you can add in the box, I don't see why you would have a problem. Edit: Looks like a single 30A 240V circuit, like a range or electric dryer.

HPWHs are great...the annual energy usage might be less than required for the backup on the old solar system.

What is your location? There will be a small amount of 'heat stealing' which can take a bite out of payback in a cold climate. With woodheat, that is not an issue for you. The rebate makes it a sweet deal, esp if the install is DIY or cheap.

Are you letting the boiler go cold when not in use, or just idle with parasitic losses?

 

[chance135]

I just purchased one of these units three days ago. I use wood for about 90% of my heating needs but was using my oil furnace to heat DHW. I was able to get rebates from my state and the Feds so the price ended up about the same as a standard hot water heater. I haven't installed it yet but I'll pop in once in awhile to give my thoughts and observations.

 

[Justin M]

I used to heat my hot water with a indirect fired oil boiler. Since switching to my GE GeoSpring my electric bill has barely changed. I keep it in heat pump mode at all times and it has plenty of hot water for 4 people.

 

[legrandice]

Short answer....if you have a good location for it then YES. IIRC, the max current draw on the unit is not that high, if you have free circuit that you can add in the box, I don't see why you would have a problem. Edit: Looks like a single 30A 240V circuit, like a range or electric dryer.

HPWHs are great...the annual energy usage might be less than required for the backup on the old solar system.

What is your location? There will be a small amount of 'heat stealing' which can take a bite out of payback in a cold climate. With woodheat, that is not an issue for you. The rebate makes it a sweet deal, esp if the install is DIY or cheap.

Are you letting the boiler go cold when not in use, or just idle with parasitic losses?

I am located in Western MA.

This would go in my basement where I have no heat. My wood stove is an insert upstairs. In the summer I have surplus heat in the basement that I have been using the AC to remove, so it's not a problem. In the winter it would be borderline temp for the heat pump so I assume it would need some electric to make up. It would still be cheaper than burning the oil.

I let the boiler go cold. I realize this is not the best for it, but I keep a very dry basement with dehumidifiers as I have a lot of electronics down there.

My best guess is that my solar hot water was using $5-10 of electricity per day to run the pump!

I think I am going to pull the trigger and order it up!

 

[Justin M]

Again I run mine in heat pump mode only and it is located in a unfinished portion of my basement. It provides hot water for a family of 4 with no problem. I was also able to shutdown my dehumidifier once I installed it. Keep in mind that it does have a condensate drain so you will need a floor drain or sump pump to drain it in to.

 

[legrandice]

Again I run mine in heat pump mode only and it is located in a unfinished portion of my basement. It provides hot water for a family of 4 with no problem. I was also able to shutdown my dehumidifier once I installed it. Keep in mind that it does have a condensate drain so you will need a floor drain or sump pump to drain it in to.

Thanks for the feedback! It's just my wife and I so hopefully it will produce enough in heat pump mode for the winter. It will be interesting to see how much less I need to run the dehumidifiers in the summer.

I am planning on getting a condensate pump for it as there is no floor drain.

 

[maple1]

My best guess is that my solar hot water was using $5-10 of electricity per day to run the pump!

What?!? Seriously!?!

 

[legrandice]

My best guess is that my solar hot water was using $5-10 of electricity per day to run the pump!

What?!? Seriously!?!

It has a .75A motor which I calculated out to $3.88 per month running 12 hours a day which it did during the summer. The controller and circuit board also draw enough power to be warm to the touch while on.

 

[DawsonBuck18]

I installed a GE Geospring last week. I should have good data after a billing cycle. It was on sale for $999, $250 rebate from Georgia Power, $300 tax rebate from fed, and a %10 military discount made it a no brainier. In hybrid mode at 130 deg F , it is rated at %60 more efficient than a typical electric water heater. I replaced an electric water heater. I plan to keep it in hybrid mode and 120 deg for the first billing period then run it in pure heat pump mode for the next billing period and compare savings.

If you are trying to get your energy cost down, everything matters. I switched to %100 CFL throught my house. Motion sensors for lights that typically get left on by my children, such as their closets. 7 ceiling fans running in reverse on low right now. Doubled my R rating in attic to R60. Programmable thermostats. Computers go to sleep mode after 10 min. Run appliances in energy savings mode. And a 1.3 cub ft Buck stove insert. Last month was very cold and the electric bill for a %100 electric house at 5,200 sq ft was $160. Not bad. My neighbors with similar sized homes had $400+ electric bills.

 

[Hank195]

We installed a GE Geospring last year and have been very happy with the water heater. The unit is in an unheated/unfinished basement (wood insert/electric heat upstairs) here in western CT; probably similar to your conditions. Our unit runs in heat pump mode most of the winter but switches to resistance electric during very cold spells (typically when the basement temperature is below 45F). It is also great in summer, keeping the basement a bit cooler and almost completely eliminates the previous need to run a dehumidifier (was able to plumb the condensate drain to the washer drain so no pump was required) I think you will be appy with the wataer heater - I was also glad to see that these are now made in the US, a few years ago I had looked at their previous model and was sad to see that GE chosen to manufacture their new "high tech water heater" in China. Understand they have constructed a new plant here to build them.

 

[semipro]

Another potential benefit of using the GeoSpring -- less mineral build-up in the water heater.
We have hard water. Our old electrical resistance water heater used to "soften" our hot water by accumulating minerals on the heating elements and in the tank bottom.
When used in HP mode the GeoSpring heats using coils that surround the tank and operate at much lower temps than resistance elements.
We've been running our GeoSpring in HP mode for nearly three years now and haven't had problems with mineral accumulation yet.
Of course those minerals may now be passing on to our fixtures but we haven't noticed a significant difference there.

 

[Highbeam]

These things are still pretty noisy, no? They also need to be in a large space so no closets as I recall.

 

[semipro]

These things are still pretty noisy, no? They also need to be in a large space so no closets as I recall.

Mines pretty noisy, kind of a high-pitched whirring noise.
Yep, no closets or small rooms.
I've always thought a great place for them would be a space that opens to either an attached garage or basement on one side and house conditioned space on the other side.
In the winter open the side towards the basement or garage as long as the temps there are above about 50.
In the summer open the house side and let the thing cool and dry your house. You'd have to consider the noise for summer operation though.

 

[Highbeam]

They're getting closer to releasing more of the reverse cycle chillers which is basicly a split version of a heat pump water heater that allows that noisy compressor to be outside and to use outside "heat" for your water. I can't believe how slow we are to use the awesome mini-split style inverter heat pump technology to heat water.

 

[begreen]

Recovery is too slow for a heat pump unless there is a storage tank. This is primarily an American tradition. Most of the world uses demand heaters instead.

 

[chance135]

I got my Geospring installed on Dec 30th and so far I'm impressed with the unit. I really wasn't sure what to expect since it is installed in my unheated, unfinished basement in Southern Maine so the temps down there are pretty chilly in the winter. I figured either way it cost me what a traditional HWH ( REBATES!) would so why not try it. I had usable hot water 30 minutes after flipping the breaker and not long after that the heat pump took over. Pretty cool considering my basement is 48-50 degrees right now. Added bonuses for us are the dehumidifying and the fact that in heat pump mode is only pulls about 500 watts so my generator can run in in case of an outage. Time will tell on the longevity of this unit but I did buy the extended warranty just in case. Oh, and I can't hear it at all from my living space. Its about as noisy as a dehumidifier set on low.

 

[semipro]

and the fact that in heat pump mode is only pulls about 500 watts so my generator can run in in case of an outage

Excellent. I hadn't considered that.
We were able to run our old electric resistance HWH using the generator before but had to make sure other higher load equipment was disabled while heating water.

 

[begreen]

Is that 500watts 240vac? No smaller generators put out 240vac that I know of.

 

[Highbeam]

Is that 500watts 240vac? No smaller generators put out 240vac that I know of.

I chose my champion 3500 watt genset in large part due to the 240 output. I've never seen a smaller output genny with 240. The nice inverter sets are extremely expensive and high output when they make 240.

 

[begreen]

I'm not certain that your genset would be able to handle it. Assuming the water is cold it is going to go to full heating power not the lowest. The spec for the heat pump load is listed as identical as for the elements. 500-4500w. Based on these specs I would want a genset that could handle the full heater load. that would probably be a 6-6.5KW unit at least.

 

[woodgeek]

No Problem....buy a 120V to 240V step up transformer!

http://www.220-electronics.com/voltage-converters-transformers/step-up-step-down-2.html

 

[semipro]

I'm not certain that your genset would be able to handle it. Assuming the water is cold it is going to go to full heating power not the lowest. The spec for the heat pump load is listed as identical as for the elements. 500-4500w. Based on these specs I would want a genset that could handle the full heater load. that would probably be a 6-6.5KW unit at least.

View attachment 122445

There is pretty good info here on the Geospring based on lab testing: (broken link removed to http://www.bpa.gov/energy/n/emerging_technology/pdf/GE_Prelim_HPWH_report_rev2a.pdf)
It looks like the unit normally draws about 300-700 watts in the "eheat" mode (HP only). However, if temps at the evaporator get too low, which may allow icing to occur, a resistance element may kick in and raise usage to 4500 watts.

 

[Highbeam]

No Problem....buy a 120V to 240V step up transformer!

http://www.220-electronics.com/voltage-converters-transformers/step-up-step-down-2.html

I get very nervous when the supplier doesn't know that the US uses 120 and 240 volts. Not 220 and 110. It's a detail often harmlessly overlooked but when you are selling converters and transformers and your company name screws this up, well, I'm not willing to risk my equipment.

 

[woodgeek]

I would put a meter on it before I tried it....transformers are pretty simple dumb things....I would figure it is ~2X. And would smooth out the high freq glitches.