Generator question

[moralleper]

My local hardware store has the following generator, http://www.amazon.com/Eastern-Tools...ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1226603675&sr=1-4
for $99. I was curious if this would be okay to run my Quad Santafe on in a power outage? the quad is rated 115VAC with 4.1Amp start and 1.1Amp running.

thanks in advance,

Tim

 

[pennichuck]

1200 watts..... 1200/120v = 10 amps should do the trick....only good for small loads though .. dont plan on it powering much more than the stove. if you are just going to use it for the stove it should be fine.

 

[pete324rocket]

That is the same unit we bought at wally mart last year for 149 bucks...still sell them this year for the same price.They are really quiet for a 2 stroke...unfortunately the electronics of our pellet stove doesn't get along with the power coming out of it(too dirty) and would not run.It would run the tv and microwave,though it did some funky things with the display.We kept it anyway since we also have a power inverter setup-deep cycle battery and the generator has both a 12 volt and 120 volts outputs so we are okay.Maybe your stove will tolerate it,only way to know is to try it if they will let you...if not wal-mart is very forgiving that way.Sure are going cheep these days eh? Thats what you get when you shop for China!

 

[donkarlos]

good thread - it would be interesting to see what other backup power sources people have. even if just for a few minutes to shut down without smokeback.

 

[InTheRockies]

Read the manual carefully before trying to plug any sensitive electronic equipment directly into a generator. Many don't have clean sine waves. Then manual for my larger generator warns about plugging computers or high-end TVs into--they could become toast. I have a smaller Honda generator with built-in inverter that can safely run more sensitive equipment.

 

[pennichuck]

if you have problems running processor controlled devices with a generator plug the device into an uninterruptible power supply (UPS) then plug the ups into the generator. This will clean up the power and the problems they go away!

 

[crausch]

Not completely, If your stove requires "pure" sine wave and if the UPS does not produce a "pure" sine wave you may not be any safer.

 

[hossthehermit]

Codebum," millworker=time to fill the glass back up". Just my opinion, of course.

 

[GVA]

A line conditioner should take care of the problems between generator and stove...

 

[crausch]

hossTheHermit...After further pondering, I guess it depends on the contents of the glass. If its water get a smaller glass. If its beer fill it back up ;-P

 

[pennichuck]

the generator provides a pure sine wave. the ups is just acting as a line conditioner... you are not using the inverter in the ups.

the sine vave from the generator is dirty and erratic...... computers and circuit boards dont like this..

i frequently run plc systems in our plant off of generators during power shutdowns.. plc's are just computers that control and run the plant.

i know what im talking about on this one....

 

[crausch]

Pennichuck...10-4 I'll take your word on that. I was not aware that the gen was "pure" sine wave output. Got a question though: I would assume that he is not running the stove on the generator all the time, so when the stove is not on the generator I would still keep it powering through the UPS. What type of UPS would you then recommend to be installed during those occassions.

 

[pete324rocket]

Is the ups cheaper than buying a 400 watt inverter and a deep cycle battery?

 

[crausch]

It depends on how much battery backup time you want. An inverter and battery together will probably be up around $500. You will probably get close to 8 hours backup time.

To get a UPS that would back you that long would be expensinve to. Most small UPS units will not give you that much time given the electrical draw of a stove. If you can get a generator for $149 as listed above and a small UPS, then you will fall under the $500 cost.

 

[pete324rocket]

400 watt inverter-40 bucks on ebay
deep cycle battery-150 buck
battery charger-40 bucks

 

[crausch]

Thats a good price but my stove requires a pure sine wave input. Other stoves do not and seem to work fine, so folks have said. The inverter recommended by Harman costs about $495 even direct from the vendor. Like everything else I guess, it depends on our individual situations. Given what I invested into my stove, I am not hooking anything else up that might void my warranty. :-(

 

[pete324rocket]

Thats a good price but my stove requires a pure sine wave input. Other stoves do not and seem to work fine, so folks have said. The inverter recommended by Harman costs about $495 even direct from the vendor. Like everything else I guess, it depends on our individual situations. Given what I invested into my stove, I am not hooking anything else up that might void my warranty. :-(

I got your message but will reply here. You say you have a ups. It has battery(s) with it that are used to provide power when the power goes out. The generator mentioned at the start of this post and many cheap ones like it have a 12 volt output. This can be hooked to the battery(s) to keep things going...or if you don't like that...run a battery charger off the 120 volt output and hook that to the batteries,if that is your preference.
When the power goes out,you will physically have to do this if you want the power to stay on to your stove.
Does your ups power the stove as it is now? Not all ups units are the same. Try wikipedia on uninteruptable power supplies...lots of info there.
Anyways,I doubt you will"fry" anything if the power is not clean ,though once you make that determination,don't continue. Like I mentioned before,I hooked my generator to the microwave,and like all of them have a digital display.If it appears to flicker and act funny....don't continue......but it didn't "fry" mine ..or my tv ...or my pellet stove. It just didn't function properly.

 

[itworks]

Codeburn, I've following this thread and want to thank you for your comments. I guess before I run out and buy anything else, I'll try to power my stove (Harman P68) with the generator this weekend.

 

[crausch]

hey itworks...I was talking to pete on the side. He is a better expert than I on this subject I was going by some previous discussions we have had on this forum.

I will be interested to see how you make out. Which generator do you have?

My UPS does not provide much battery backup and I REALLY don't want to spend the bucks that Harman wants for the SureFire 512h backup unit. I am planning on purchasing a generator also. I want to go the path of the generator as opposed to the inverter/battery because I can use the generator in more applications throughout the year. My plans are that if I have any extended outages (which are rare in my neighborhood) I would plug my UPS into the generator, and the stove would remain plugged into my UPS (because of surge and voltage regulation features). As pete mentions if your motors or other components act funny, I would unplug it. I am looking at a 3000w generator at HD for $349. Has 4 outlets and claims to have a clean sine wave.

 

[pete324rocket]

"claims to have a clean sine wave"

I would go by that.Usually if it isn't,they sure won't tell you on the side of the box.Pretty good price for that if it is.

 

[GVA]

[quote author="pennichuck" date="1226683997"] plc's are just computers that control and run the plant.
quote]

No.... the PLC is more reliable...... ;-P

 

[hossthehermit]

hey itworks...I was talking to pete on the side. He is a better expert than I on this subject I was going by some previous discussions we have had on this forum.

I will be interested to see how you make out. Which generator do you have?

My UPS does not provide much battery backup and I REALLY don't want to spend the bucks that Harman wants for the SureFire 512h backup unit. I am planning on purchasing a generator also. I want to go the path of the generator as opposed to the inverter/battery because I can use the generator in more applications throughout the year. My plans are that if I have any extended outages (which are rare in my neighborhood) I would plug my UPS into the generator, and the stove would remain plugged into my UPS (because of surge and voltage regulation features). As pete mentions if your motors or other components act funny, I would unplug it. I am looking at a 3000w generator at HD for $349. Has 4 outlets and claims to have a clean sine wave.

"clean sine wave", "modified sine wave" and "pure sine wave" are, according to my various electrical, instrumentation, and electronic pros at work, all very different things. You can have a "clean" modified sine wave, a "dirty" pure sine wave, or a combination. The thing with pellet stoves,(as I understand it), are that you have "sensitive electronics", i.e., your control board, which require a "clean" sine wave, be it "pure" or" modified". You also have electric motors to run the augers, blowers, etc., which require a "pure " sine wave, and don't really care if it's dirty or not. Many of the motors will run on a "modified" sine, but life expectancy will be reduced by 50 - 90%. Some won't run at all on "modified" sine. So, where we're at, is, what will give us a "clean, pure sine " input that will make everything get along, and we can all be happy campers when the lines go down. Answers, please?

 

[tinkabranc]

I have no idea what you just said..but.. ;-)

My stove is hooked up to a APC XS1300VA- 780 watts. - so far no problems at all.
Power went out a few times last winter and it ran the stove just fine.

Waveform Type- Stepped approximation to a sinewave

 

[imacman]

Waveform Type- Stepped approximation to a sinewave

Tink, I think that means a modified sine wave....their supposedly not good for the electronics in our stoves, but I'm no electrician......maybe one of the electronic-types on here can tell you what that means. (maybe slickplant can explain it....LOL)

 

[hossthehermit]

Waveform Type- Stepped approximation to a sinewave

Tink, I think that means a modified sine wave....their supposedly not good for the electronics in our stoves, but I'm no electrician......maybe one of the electronic-types on here can tell you what that means. (maybe slickplant can explain it....LOL)

macman, no, it's fine for the electronics, but not for the motors, what I've been told