getting a new stove..

[Cornelis]

I am thinking of getting a new stove. These are the ones I am looking at.
Alderlea 6
PE summit
Harman TL 300
Quadra fire 4300 0r 5700
Englander 30nc

Any input on these stove would be great.

 

[jeff_t]

See too many complaints on the Quads. The Harman is a downdraft design, which can be finicky, but they seem to have it figured out better than other manufacturers of downdraft stoves. Hardly ever see any issues with the others. I guess it depends on what you want to look at.

What are you replacing? What are your heating needs?

 

[Grisu]

A few more info would be good. How large is the space your are heating? How well insulated? How cold does it get? What stove and chimney do you have now? What is your price point? Reasons for looking for new stove? What wood do you mostly burn?

 

[Cornelis]

See too many complaints on the Quads. The Harman is a downdraft design, which can be finicky, but they seem to have it figured out better than other manufacturers of downdraft stoves. Hardly ever see any issues with the others. I guess it depends on what you want to look at.

What are you replacing? What are your heating needs?

I did hear about downdraft but have no clue what that means. I am replacing a Heatilator ws22.

 

[Cornelis]

A few more info would be good. How large is the space your are heating? How well insulated? How cold does it get? What stove and chimney do you have now? What is your price point? Reasons for looking for new stove? What wood do you mostly burn?

About 1400 sqft most of it is very drafty. I am in CT and it can get pretty cold. I have a Heatilator ws22 and a few feet of pipe that goes into the chimney and that chimney is about 15 ft

 

[Grisu]

About 1400 sqft most of it is very drafty. I am in CT and it can get pretty cold. I have a Heatilator ws22 and a few feet of pipe that goes into the chimney and that chimney is about 15 ft

That is a modern EPA-stove with a 2.7 cu ft firebox; should be plenty to heat your house even when it is drafty. Do you have problems getting enough heat or why do you want to replace it? Right now I would say there is more a problem with your installation (like potentially missing a chimney liner) and maybe the stove operation and wood than with the stove itself. Do you use seasoned wood? How long has it been split and stacked?

 

[webby3650]

That is a modern EPA-stove with a 2.7 cu ft firebox; should be plenty to heat your house even when it is drafty. Do you have problems getting enough heat or why do you want to replace it? Right now I would say there is more a problem with your installation (like potentially missing a chimney liner) and maybe the stove operation and wood than with the stove itself. Do you use seasoned wood? How long has it been split and stacked?

All very good points! Nothing wrong with getting a new stove, but it would save a heap of cash if you can make the Heatilator work better. It should do OK in this amount of square footage.

 

[begreen]

If the stove seemed to underperform it may be the wood or the draft (or both). How dry was the wood you burned last season? Is the flue straight up or are there any 90's in it?

 

[Cornelis]

That is a modern EPA-stove with a 2.7 cu ft firebox; should be plenty to heat your house even when it is drafty. Do you have problems getting enough heat or why do you want to replace it? Right now I would say there is more a problem with your installation (like potentially missing a chimney liner) and maybe the stove operation and wood than with the stove itself. Do you use seasoned wood? How long has it been split and stacked?

There is a liner in the chimney..I have seasoned wood split 2 years ago..Last winter we found out that the front of the the stove is a little warped were the door meat the stove.

 

[Cornelis]

If the stove seemed to underperform it may be the wood or the draft (or both). How dry was the wood you burned last season? Is the flue straight up or are there any 90's in it?

There is a few feet of pipe from the stove and than a 90 that goes into the chimney liner.. Wood is dry

 

[Cornelis]

All very good points! Nothing wrong with getting a new stove, but it would save a heap of cash if you can make the Heatilator work better. It should do OK in this amount of square footage.

That is what we where told..Is it possible that I loose to much heat up the chimney

 

[begreen]

If that 15 ft includes 2 - 90 deg turns in the smoke path I think you may not be getting good draft. This can make the stove under perform, particularly if it has a long path for the secondary air. I can speak from experience with a friend's stove that the Summit is a pretty easy breather. They have a situation like yours and the Summit still fires off pretty well under the circumstance. But before replacing the stove I would try adding 3-4 ft of pipe to the top of the chimney to improve draft. Sometimes that can make a big difference when draft is marginal.

 

[Cornelis]

There is a liner in the chimney..I have seasoned wood split 2 years ago..Last winter we found out that the front of the the stove is a little warped were the door meat the stove.

And that warped part of the stove is not gone be cheap to fix. Have no idea how that happen

 

[Cornelis]

If that 15 ft includes 2 - 90 deg turns in the smoke path I think you may not be getting good draft. This can make the stove under perform, particularly if it has a long path for the secondary air. I can speak from experience with a friend's stove that the Summit is a pretty easy breather. They have a situation like yours and the Summit still fires off pretty well under the circumstance. But before replacing the stove I would try adding 3-4 ft of pipe to the top of the chimney to improve draft. Sometimes that can make a big difference when draft is marginal.

The 15 ft is straight up..Some times I think I loose to much heat up the chimney. Is it possible to have to much draft

 

[Grisu]

I have looked a bit at your old thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/looking-for-a-new-stove-for-next-winter.105281/
In there you complain about a lot of coals in the morning. A few things are still unclear to me. There you say you split the wood 2 years ago but stacked it just the summer before. If that has been sitting in a big heap in your yard most of the time only the outer layer will be dry, the rest will still be wet. You may need a moisture meter to confirm if it is truly seasoned. (e. g. http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-mini-moisture-meter-67143.html) Are those truly splits or just logs with a smaller diameter (aka larger branches)? Those need much longer to season IMHO. You also say you burn softwood; has that been split and stacked for a year?

You say the chimney is lined. Just to make sure: You do not mean a tile liner but a 6-inch chimney liner like that here?
(broken image removed)
You also said you have an OAK (outside air kit) but your house is very drafty. Why the OAK then? Have you checked that it is free of obstructions?
Then your stove temps; have you tried to get it higher than 500 F? How long does it stay there? Do you see the secondaries in the top of the firebox doing most of the burn? How is your glass; does that stay clean? At which temp do you start to turn down the air? When do you close it most/all the way for an overnight burn? When you have the air open but the door closed how does the fire look? Is it going pretty vigorously or are the flames lazy with lots of smoke?

Lastly, have you checked if your door seals right especially if it is warped? Take a dollar bill, put it between door and stove, close the door and try to pull it out. If the seal is good you should not/barely be able to pull the bill out. Try all sides/corners of your door.

P.S. Could you post some pictures? Sometimes that makes it easier to figure out what is going on.

 

[begreen]

There is a few feet of pipe from the stove and than a 90 that goes into the chimney liner.. Wood is dry

How is this straight up? Or do you mean 15 ft straight up after it enters the chimney? Is this connecting to a stainless 6" liner in the chimney?

 

[Grisu]

It is not your stove but that is how a secondary burn should approximately look like when you have the stove up to temp and the air closed:

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How does it look in your case?

 

[Cornelis]

I have looked a bit at your old thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/looking-for-a-new-stove-for-next-winter.105281/
In there you complain about a lot of coals in the morning. A few things are still unclear to me. There you say you split the wood 2 years ago but stacked it just the summer before. If that has been sitting in a big heap in your yard most of the time only the outer layer will be dry, the rest will still be wet. You may need a moisture meter to confirm if it is truly seasoned. (e. g. http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-mini-moisture-meter-67143.html) Are those truly splits or just logs with a smaller diameter (aka larger branches)? Those need much longer to season IMHO. You also say you burn softwood; has that been split and stacked for a year?

You say the chimney is lined. Just to make sure: You do not mean a tile liner but a 6-inch chimney liner like that here?
(broken image removed)
You also said you have an OAK (outside air kit) but your house is very drafty. Why the OAK then? Have you checked that it is free of obstructions?
Then your stove temps; have you tried to get it higher than 500 F? How long does it stay there? Do you see the secondaries in the top of the firebox doing most of the burn? How is your glass; does that stay clean? At which temp do you start to turn down the air? When do you close it most/all the way for an overnight burn? When you have the air open but the door closed how does the fire look? Is it going pretty vigorously or are the flames lazy with lots of smoke?

Lastly, have you checked if your door seals right especially if it is warped? Take a dollar bill, put it between door and stove, close the door and try to pull it out. If the seal is good you should not/barely be able to pull the bill out. Try all sides/corners of your door.

P.S. Could you post some pictures? Sometimes that makes it easier to figure out what is going on.

The wood is in a pile and at this time of the the year I stack it in a shed. And it is all split. I use soft wood during the day I don't wand to wast hardwood.

The chimney has a liner as the picture.

I put the OAK in because the floors where very cold and after the instal no problem I think the house get warmer too.

I can get the middle of the stove top over 500f easy. I am not very impressed with the secondaries have a feeling they don't last long. Glass is always clean. For the night I fill the stove and wait a little and turn it down. The dollar bill works on all places except on top of the door.

 

[stovelark]

Hi Cornelis- We all understand how frustrating it can be, but changing stoves might not help. Can you tell us where the stove is, is it downstairs in a basement heating upstairs? Is it on the main floor?? It sounds like you are able to hit temp on top of the stove- can you control the heat output? You mentioned warping, are you saying the door is warped or the body of the stove?? If so, when and how did that happen? Being steel, warpage is normally associated with overfiring.. Not pointing fingers, but will be doubly disappointed if you change stoves and it doesn't help. 1400 sqft is in the sweet spot of that stove with good wood, I am concerned about the warpage though. Let us know about your layout if you can. The Summit, the Alderlea T6 are both great choices, but if your issue is the fuel or chimney, they won't help either.. good luck.

 

[webby3650]

500 degrees is just getting started for a steel stove! Since its warped, it's been too hot at some point. With good dry wood, that stove should have no problem getting up to 900 degrees. The wood isn't as dry as you might think if its in a pile. It needs to be stacked up from the start.

 

[aansorge]

900 is a bit higher than desired though!

 

[stovelark]

Hi guys- I agree 900 is too hot even for steel stoves. Ideally 400-700 for clean burn and max heat transfer into the room. I still too am leaning toward the fuel, a new generation stove rarely has issues, if everything else is ok. And steel stoves are typically the easiest to run as well.

 

[Grisu]

The wood is in a pile and at this time of the the year I stack it in a shed. And it is all split. I use soft wood during the day I don't wand to wast hardwood.

Wood in a pile on the ground will not season except maybe for the outer layer. Best is stacking it in single rows with lots of sun and wind exposure for one to two years (3 for oak). I prefer some top cover but there are endless debates on if it is really necessary. Here is a great example of building some cheap wood drying racks although many people (me included) just use pallets as base: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/assistance-selecting-stove.110440/page-3#post-1475013 Btw. I do not have problems with you burning softwood, I burn pine myself. However, I also dry it out for at least a year as shown in the link. Softwood is problematic because it burns reasonably well without seasoning but will create a lot of creosote then. How often do you clean your chimney? Have you ever tried a load or two of store-bought kiln-dried wood?

The chimney has a liner as the picture.

Great. Maybe extending it would be an option as yours is at the shorter side with only 15 ft and a 90 degree elbow.

I put the OAK in because the floors where very cold and after the instal no problem I think the house get warmer too.

That's interesting. Never noticed something like that and my house is not that airtight either. It would suggest your stove is pulling more air than it should. Have you checked whether the OAK is free of obstructions?

I can get the middle of the stove top over 500f easy. I am not very impressed with the secondaries have a feeling they don't last long. Glass is always clean. For the night I fill the stove and wait a little and turn it down. The dollar bill works on all places except on top of the door.

I would give it a bit more, like 650 F. There is a sweet spot that you would like to hit. Differs a bit from stove to stove and house to house. The stove must be hot enough to sustain secondary combustion but not too hot to overfire or burn up the load in a few hours. Your secondaries may not last long because your wood is not properly seasoned, your stove is not quite hot enough when you turn down the air, and/or you have a leaky door. I am not sure how bad your warping is; maybe a new door gasket would be enough. When you say you turn the air down do you check the temps when doing it? Do you turn it down stepwise or in one swoop? Do you close the primary air completely or leave it open a bit? It would be helpful if you can be a bit more specific. We are all trying to help you to get the most out of your stove and save a bundle in cash at the same time. If your problem is wet wood, bad installation, or operation a new stove will cost you a lot of money and not change anything.

 

[Cornelis]

Hi Cornelis- We all understand how frustrating it can be, but changing stoves might not help. Can you tell us where the stove is, is it downstairs in a basement heating upstairs? Is it on the main floor?? It sounds like you are able to hit temp on top of the stove- can you control the heat output? You mentioned warping, are you saying the door is warped or the body of the stove?? If so, when and how did that happen? Being steel, warpage is normally associated with overfiring.. Not pointing fingers, but will be doubly disappointed if you change stoves and it doesn't help. 1400 sqft is in the sweet spot of that stove with good wood, I am concerned about the warpage though. Let us know about your layout if you can. The Summit, the Alderlea T6 are both great choices, but if your issue is the fuel or chimney, they won't help either.. good luck.

The stove is on the first floor in the kitchen we have a open floor plan. We have 2 rooms upstairs but it is the office and crafts room for the girlfriend. The body is warped where the top of the door meets the stove. Every time I point my IR gun at that point of the stove it gives me one of the lowest reading on the stove. I have a feeling I bought it like that because that part doesn't get very hot.

 

[Cornelis]

Wood in a pile on the ground will not season except maybe for the outer layer. Best is stacking it in single rows with lots of sun and wind exposure for one to two years (3 for oak). I prefer some top cover but there are endless debates on if it is really necessary. Here is a great example of building some cheap wood drying racks although many people (me included) just use pallets as base: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/assistance-selecting-stove.110440/page-3#post-1475013 Btw. I do not have problems with you burning softwood, I burn pine myself. However, I also dry it out for at least a year as shown in the link. Softwood is problematic because it burns reasonably well without seasoning but will create a lot of creosote then. How often do you clean your chimney? Have you ever tried a load or two of store-bought kiln-dried wood?


Great. Maybe extending it would be an option as yours is at the shorter side with only 15 ft and a 90 degree elbow.


That's interesting. Never noticed something like that and my house is not that airtight either. It would suggest your stove is pulling more air than it should. Have you checked whether the OAK is free of obstructions?


I would give it a bit more, like 650 F. There is a sweet spot that you would like to hit. Differs a bit from stove to stove and house to house. The stove must be hot enough to sustain secondary combustion but not too hot to overfire or burn up the load in a few hours. Your secondaries may not last long because your wood is not properly seasoned, your stove is not quite hot enough when you turn down the air, and/or you have a leaky door. I am not sure how bad your warping is; maybe a new door gasket would be enough. When you say you turn the air down do you check the temps when doing it? Do you turn it down stepwise or in one swoop? Do you close the primary air completely or leave it open a bit? It would be helpful if you can be a bit more specific. We are all trying to help you to get the most out of your stove and save a bundle in cash at the same time. If your problem is wet wood, bad installation, or operation a new stove will cost you a lot of money and not change anything.

A new door gasket didn't help. I try to have the stove at 300 when I fill it up for the night and than wait a little till the load gets fire and than shut the air down if I don't do that than the stove gets way to hot. Is it normal for the stove to cool of quick.

Before I had the OAK the floors where cold ( Tiles ) but now can walk on it barefoot no more draft over the floor.

Is it possible that I have to much draft you can see the flames going between the ceramic blanket and the top of the stove.