Getting started with liner install

[Wildbilljp]

OK, so got the liner in and wrapped insulation and pulled wire over all of it. This was not rocket science but did take some significant effort especially for an old dude like me. Too cold outside so did it in the basement.
Attached a few pictures and hoping someone can tell me if I would need to insulate this inside of my fireplace before installing the insert.
One pic is the cast iron box inside the fireplace. Looks more like a turtle shell than a square box. Round corners and back.Would

like to know what that is called?
"I think" the pics looking straight up is the damper. My intentions are to cut a hole sufficient to pull the liner through and use it as a block off plate.

 

[TWilk117]

Not exactly sure what you are referring to. Your firebox and damper look similar to mine.

The guy that helped me put my liner in wrapped an old extension cord around the one end and tied it. Than wrapped a chit load of duct tape around it. We used the extension cord to pull and fish it down. Worked like a charm.

 

[Hogwildz]

You don't have to line the firebox with insulation. You should install a block off plate where the liner runs into the old firebox(about lintel height) which you can insulate on top of the block off plate, then run the liner through a hole in the block off plate to the insert outlet. If there is a gap between the liner and block off plate, stuff some door rope gasket in the gap. Seal the perimeter of the block off plate with silicone.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

You don't have to line the firebox with insulation. You should install a block off plate where the liner runs into the old firebox(about lintel height) which you can insulate on top of the block off plate, then run the liner through a hole in the block off plate to the insert outlet. If there is a gap between the liner and block off plate, stuff some door rope gasket in the gap. Seal the perimeter of the block off plate with silicone.

What fasters would you recommend for securing it? I think it's cast iron that will need to be drilled?

Also, your thoughts on fasteners if the firebox was brick, please.

 

[Wildbilljp]

What fasters would you recommend for securing it? I think it's cast iron that will need to be drilled?

Also, your thoughts on fasteners if the firebox was brick, please.

What I plan to do is use a sawzall with metal cutting blades to cut the hole for the liner in the damper. Yes, the "box" is cast iron but the damper plate seems to be mild steel. Now, I do need a hole in the "box" for the electricity connection. For that, I plan to use a hole saw. Will know how the sawzall does on cutting the damper in a little bit as I'm working on it right now.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

What I plan to do is use a sawzall with metal cutting blades to cut the hole for the liner in the damper. Yes, the "box" is cast iron but the damper plate seems to be mild steel. Now, I do need a hole in the "box" for the electricity connection. For that, I plan to use a hole saw. Will know how the sawzall does on cutting the damper in a little bit as I'm working on it right now.

I tried a sawzall and ended up using that and an angle grinder for what you are describing.

I was wondering how to secure the block off plate, that is, what fasteners to use.

 

[Hogwildz]

What fasters would you recommend for securing it? I think it's cast iron that will need to be drilled?

Also, your thoughts on fasteners if the firebox was brick, please.

If you bend a 1" flange or so just slightly less than the angles of the perimeter of the firebox walls where it will rest, then the spring action from the flanges may hold it in place, then once siliconed, that will also hold it in pace.

To fasten with screws, for cast, yes pre drill, and a self tapper(to clean and make sure screw size matches hole) carefully screwed in, to just snug. For brick, Tapcons are the way to go.
Both would need to be pre-drilled to avoid chancing cracking or breaking

 

[Hogwildz]

What I plan to do is use a sawzall with metal cutting blades to cut the hole for the liner in the damper. Yes, the "box" is cast iron but the damper plate seems to be mild steel. Now, I do need a hole in the "box" for the electricity connection. For that, I plan to use a hole saw. Will know how the sawzall does on cutting the damper in a little bit as I'm working on it right now.

You will want, chitty old clothes, a good dust mask & safety glasses, it's going to be messy. Here are a few photos of the cuts I had to make. A mock up with 6" HVAC flexible duct to make sure the liner would fit to the stove, and the actual S.S. liner installed to stove outlet.

I used a sawzaw with heavy duty construction/rescue blades, and and angle grinder. Both had advantages & disadvantages in certain areas,

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

If you bend a 1" flange or so just slightly less than the angles of the perimeter of the firebox walls where it will rest, then the spring action from the flanges may hold it in place, then once siliconed, that will also hold it in pace.

To fasten with screws, for cast, yes pre drill, and a self tapper(to clean and make sure screw size matches hole) carefully screwed in, to just snug. For brick, Tapcons are the way to go.
Both would need to be pre-drilled to avoid chancing cracking or breaking

Thanks. I looked for tapcons at my local hardware, and they were all way too big. I'll need to expand my search, or perhaps think about shims or anchors. Maybe stuffing a little roxul in some predrilled holes in the bricks would the trick.

 

[Hogwildz]

Thanks. I looked for tapcons at my local hardware, and they were all way too big. I'll need to expand my search, or perhaps think about shims or anchors. Maybe stuffing a little roxul in some predrilled holes in the bricks would the trick.

Home Depot, Lowes etc, have the smaller Tapcons, or generic version. You don't need much, once caulked it shouldn't be going anywhere. Of course I am overkill, and just had to put the Tapcons in. Make sure you get the correct drill bit for them, they have matching bits right next to the screws. Don't overly ream the holes out, or the screws will end up stripping. No need to crank the screws super tight, snug is all you need.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Home Depot, Lowes etc, have the smaller Tapcons, or generic version. You don't need much, once caulked it shouldn't be going anywhere. Of course I am overkill, and just had to put the Tapcons in. Make sure you get the correct drill bit for them, they have matching bits right next to the screws. Don't overly ream the holes out, or the screws will end up stripping. No need to crank the screws super tight, snug is all you need.

Thanks Hog. That's exactly the kind of specific directions I like. Appreciate it.

 

[bholler]

What fasters would you recommend for securing it? I think it's cast iron that will need to be drilled?

Also, your thoughts on fasteners if the firebox was brick, please.

It is not cast iron it is plate steel. If you drill the correct size self tappers work. I usually use rivets for blockoff plates.

 

[Hogwildz]

Thanks Hog. That's exactly the kind of specific directions I like. Appreciate it.

No problemo. I am here to pass along the help I was given. I try to stick within the things I have actually experienced. But I do give my opinion for time to time, I'm only human. If ya get hung up, lemme know, you ain't that far away. I've traveled farther to help out other wood burning folks.

 

[bholler]

And to cut out metal boxes I use a combo of grinder and sawzall. Usually takes 10 to 15 mins.

 

[Hogwildz]

And to cut out metal boxes I use a combo of grinder and sawzall. Usually takes 10 to 15 mins.

I need to invent a pocket plasma cutter.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

It is not cast iron it is plate steel. If you drill the correct size self tappers work. I usually use rivets for blockoff plates.

Aluminum pop rivets? That would be easy.

 

[bholler]

Aluminum pop rivets? That would be easy.

We use stainless because that's what we have.

 

[bholler]

I need to invent a pocket plasma cutter.

There are guys who use plasma cutters but I would be done by the time they are ready to cut

 

[Wildbilljp]

So, I got the liner in but I think I'm going to pull it back and make a little more room. for back and forth movement. I am wondering how the heck you get you hansd in there to make the appliance connection? That liner is really more rigid when inside the chimney and has very little flexibility. You can see in the picture that the angle is just a bit too tight. I'm kinda worried but I'll get it done. Princess is supposed to arrive tomorrow.

 

[bholler]

So, I got the liner in but I think I'm going to pull it back and make a little more room. for back and forth movement. I am wondering how the heck you get you hansd in there to make the appliance connection? That liner is really more rigid when inside the chimney and has very little flexibility. You can see in the picture that the angle is just a bit too tight. I'm kinda worried but I'll get it done. Princess is supposed to arrive tomorrow.

Yeah you need to cut out allot more

 

[Wildbilljp]

You will want, chitty old clothes, a good dust mask & safety glasses, it's going to be messy. Here are a few photos of the cuts I had to make. A mock up with 6" HVAC flexible duct to make sure the liner would fit to the stove, and the actual S.S. liner installed to stove outlet.

I used a sawzaw with heavy duty construction/rescue blades, and and angle grinder. Both had advantages & disadvantages in certain areas,

Yep, that looks exactly like what I have to do. Thanks to Hogwildz for those pics. That is exactly the box I have and the cuts I need to make. Have the 25' liner and it is going to be just enough to reach the appliance adapter. I knew it would be tough in the firebox area but you say"I'll just cut this and that" and then when you start you figure out it is really a lot more difficult than you think cutting overhead like that.

 

[Wildbilljp]

So, got the relief cutting done in the firebox area same as Hogwildz shows in his pics above. Easy to type out but HARD AS HELL to do with all the ash dust, hot metal cuttings spraying and blades breaking, not to mention working up-side-down & overhead. OK, I now know why the install cost for an insert is so high. I couldn't afford that cost so had to do it myself. Most definitely wouldn't want to do it again. You guys that do fireplace/chimney/insert installs have my respect.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

So, got the relief cutting done in the firebox area same as Hogwildz shows in his pics above. Easy to type out but HARD AS HELL to do with all the ash dust, hot metal cuttings spraying and blades breaking, not to mention working up-side-down & overhead. OK, I now know why the install cost for an insert is so high. I couldn't afford that cost so had to do it myself. Most definitely wouldn't want to do it again. You guys that do fireplace/chimney/insert installs have my respect.

I felt exactly the same way!

I think if you did this 20 times, you'd eventually get work hardened and figure out things to make it a little less unpleasant. I find everything is so much harder the first time- and this task, particularly so.

Congrats on getting it done.