Go Ahead and Over Fire Your Stove!

[Terence]

Hi everyone,

New member here with a question. But first a little background I just bought an Avalon Rainier for my 1200 foot ranch house. Im in CT, and just had the thing installed and inspected a few days ago. My first wood burning stove ever. Im a total n00b.

My question is this: when I was talking with the guy at the dealership, he mentioned to me, as I was leaving -- "go ahead and overfire your stove. you got a great stove there and you can really crank it up."

I bought a thermometer to stick on the outside of the stove and was planning to stay within the guidelines on the thermometer. Overfire has sort of an ominous sound to it. What do you think he meant? Should I do it?

Also, he suggested I buy something called Co-Mate. Is that a good product?

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

That's a nice stove. The best thing you can do for yourself and the stove is to be sure and burn DRY wood. It might be a good idea to have someone else check your wood when delivered, that knows dry wood. You may pay a bit more, but mid-winter, you will be very glad you have dry wood. You'll get more heat out of it and a much cleaner flue.

No stove should be over-fired. Your stove will burn comfortably with a 600 degree temp. It may occasionally get up to 700. But hotter than that is probably more than you want to experiment with as a newbie. Read the manual well. Follow their advice for running the stove. If you burn dry wood and don't smolder the fire, you probably will never need Co-Mate. This is a tough stove for a surface thermometer because it has a second skin surrounding the firebox. This skin serves as a plenum through which cold air enters at the bottom and exits out as heated air at the top. That means that the only place to get a reading on the stove temp is in the front left or right corner above the door.

Go ahead and burn some smaller fires now, with the windows open. The stove will smoke and smell for the first few fires and fresh paint and oils season in. This is normal, but should get much better with each fire and gone by about the 4th or 5th fire.

 

[karl]

Don't flame me if its already been done, but someone should write an article on over firing a stove. I have read my Summit manual several times and probably a dozen other manuals from other stoves and they all say not to over fire a stove. Yet, none of them explain what over firing is. Perhaps they could explain the temps on a stack thermometer and a thermometer attached to an insert.

 

[North of 60]

I always thought on my TWO new stove start-ups I was told to run smaller low burns to cure the bricks & paint. Chek the manual as your eyes are your freinds. Good luck and enjoy it.

 

[begreen]

karl, there's no certain rule. It does vary from stove to stove, but if the stove glows in the dark, it's overfiring. Stove temp greater than 750 and stack temps above that temp are general indications that one is approaching the overheat range. Especially if the stove is run consistently in this temp range for a long time. Some stoves will naturally run a bit hot, like our old 602, but most modern stoves like to run between 500-650. An occasional foray to the 700+ range isn't going to hurt most stoves, but it can get a little exciting.

 

[got wood?]

The search button at the top right of this page is your best friend...use it and use it often! Overfiring has often been discussed as well as the consequences! Nice stove BTW

 

[Terence]

Thanks everybody for the great replies. I went ahead and used the search engine as suggested. There sure is a lot of great info on the site. I appreciate the advice.

As far as wood goes, we have a ton of wood stacked under tarps (on a bed of gravel) in our back yard. We didn't know it when we moved to CT, but apparently they get tornadoes there, and one went right through our neighborhood and tore down a bunch of trees. Our neighbor's trees went into our yard., so we have a giant pile of wood split and stacked up. That was actually what motivated me to look into a wood stove.

Thanks again

 

[begreen]

Is the wood split or is it still in rounds? Was it green when it was cut up? How long ago was that?

Try to avoid burning any of the wood that has contact with the ground.

 

[Gooserider]

It is usually considered best to only "top cover" your wood piles (if that) especially in decent weather - more coverage is OK to keep snow off wood you plan to use. However you want to get as much air circulation through the piles as possible, and side covers discourage that. Also having the wood on a gravel bed might be better than having it on dirt, but not by much... You really should get the wood up off the ground completely - this keeps it from absorbing moisture from the ground, discourages bugs and encourages air circulation.

Otherwise it sounds like you are doing a good job, welcome to the Forums...

Gooserider

 

[Terence]

Thanks for the advice. I better get myself some pallets or something to stack the wood on.

Of the wood that fell on my property this April, some of the wood is split and some of it is in rounds. My neighbor worked for a tree company and we'll be borrowing their commercial grade splitter some time soon. I think this wood will be good for next winter, probably. It has top (but not much side) cover from tarps.

Also in a wood rack, up off the ground I have enough dry seasoned wood stacked up for this winter. We burned in a fireplace before, you see.

Thanks again for all the good advice.

 

[begreen]

Excellent. Wood stacked and a new pile in reserve. Sounds like a man with a plan. Enjoy that new stove!

 

[jjbaer]

Ah yes...that's the ticket: buy a $400 to $3000 stove and over-temp it and ruin it................

"Over-fire" means "over-temp" meand "too hot" means possibly ruining your stove so please don't do it. Sometimes it can be an inadvertent thing so get that's why we get a $12 stove thermometer.......

 

[begreen]

Yeah, salesmen are wonderful. It's like buying a new car and them telling you that "you won't really appreciate the handling of this baby until you get it over 100". Possible maybe, but safe?

 

[DiscoInferno]

Ah yes...that's the ticket: buy a $400 to $3000 stove and over-temp it and ruin it................

"Over-fire" means "over-temp" meand "too hot" means possibly ruining your stove so please don't do it. Sometimes it can be an inadvertent thing so get that's why we get a $12 stove thermometer.......

Certainly if words are to have meaning then "overfire" needs to be something one shouldn't do. But it's pretty useless to have a stove manual (like mine) that simply tells you not to overfire. In the brochure for my Ultima they show an overnight burn starting at 800 degrees. So apparently that's not overfiring. (Good thing, too, because I hit that a few times last year.) Is it 850? 900? Measured where? I think that by being vague they figure they can avoid a lot of warranty repairs by blaming overfiring for any and all damage.

 

[BrotherBart]

Certainly if words are to have meaning then "overfire" needs to be something one shouldn't do. But it's pretty useless to have a stove manual (like mine) that simply tells you not to overfire. In the brochure for my Ultima they show an overnight burn starting at 800 degrees. So apparently that's not overfiring. (Good thing, too, because I hit that a few times last year.) Is it 850? 900? Measured where? I think that by being vague they figure they can avoid a lot of warranty repairs by blaming overfiring for any and all damage.

Exactly the bone I usually want to pick with these stove manuals. Some are up front and say 600 or 700 but they are the exception. Most say that if part of the stove is glowing, which by the way happens at 1,185 degrees, then you are overfiring. At 1,200 degrees cold rolled steel is starting to change its mind about what it wants to be in life, and straining the hell out of those welds trying to get there. And if it is at 800 and climbing you don't have a lot of wiggle room to slow it down.

Keep'em under eight, preferably 700 folks. That stove can be all it can be at 650 degrees. Well, except for Gunner who has a thing for 900 degree burns.

BB - Who did years of 1,000+ burns and wrecked his favorite stove doing it.

 

[Gunner]

Damn straight, up here we like are beer to be over 5% and our stoves over 700 :coolsmile:

 

[fbelec]

lets make a video. here is what not to do with a stove. we can get a junker and fire it up and show what not to do.

i think i'm getting ahead of myself. couldn't help it. was staring at my wood pile this weekend.

jusk a couple more weeks

 

[Bill]

My manual for the Morso was just as vague about over firing. I like to let my wood burners rip when cold. So I called Morso and asked them what temperature is over firing, they said stay under 650. So that what's I intend to do. I guess having two thermometers on the stove makes real sense. When I first start a fire the chimney gets quite hot before the stove catches up. Not every piece of wood is alike, the weather and draft can vary, and how fast my wife wants the cabin warmed up all vary. The important thing for me is to show the wife how to use the stove so it doesn't get over fired when I am not home.

 

[begreen]

lets make a video. here is what not to do with a stove. we can get a junker and fire it up and show what not to do.

i think i'm getting ahead of myself. couldn't help it. was staring at my wood pile this weekend.

jusk a couple more weeks

Sounds like a candidate for Jackass III, especially the scene where you try to start the fire with some gasoline.

 

[fbelec]

lets make a video. here is what not to do with a stove. we can get a junker and fire it up and show what not to do.

i think i'm getting ahead of myself. couldn't help it. was staring at my wood pile this weekend.

jusk a couple more weeks

Sounds like a candidate for Jackass III, especially the scene where you try to start the fire with some gasoline.

yup sure does. then it put on utube. you know everybody will see it that way

 

[elkimmeg]

There are way the stove tell you it is hot You forget to close down that air and t that s distinctive smell hits you Th Oh Chit if forgot to cut the air down.
the burnt dust smell of things getting overheated. We all will experience it at one time. The thing to do is not to let it happen again

 

[bjorn773]

Are the magnetic thermometers accurate? Or to be safe is a probe thermo better? My stove pipe is double wall, won't that effect the accuracy of a magnetic thermo?

 

[DiscoInferno]

There are way the stove tell you it is hot You forget to close down that air and t that s distinctive smell hits you Th Oh Chit if forgot to cut the air down.
the burnt dust smell of things getting overheated. We all will experience it at one time. The thing to do is not to let it happen again

Or if the stove if relatively new, the smell of curing/burning paint each time you set a new "record" temp. Can even set off the smoke alarm (ionization type), which really gets you running to the stove.

 

[fbelec]

Are the magnetic thermometers accurate? Or to be safe is a probe thermo better? My stove pipe is double wall, won't that effect the accuracy of a magnetic thermo?

probe type is better. in your case with double pipe you need the probe type. the magnetic won't work on double pipe. if you tried it the reading might be 180 when the real temp might be 350. so you definitely need a probe type.

 

[got wood?]

Are the magnetic thermometers accurate? Or to be safe is a probe thermo better? My stove pipe is double wall, won't that effect the accuracy of a magnetic thermo?

probe type is better. in your case with double pipe you need the probe type. the magnetic won't work on double pipe. if you tried it the reading might be 180 when the real temp might be 350. so you definitely need a probe type.

Probe thermometers are best, but I've found they are pretty difficult with a double wall pipe. I have one probe thermometer in a single wall on my Lopi Endeavor and a magnetic surface thermometer on my Lopi Liberty stove top (it has a double wall flue). I was about to tap the double wall on the Liberty to install a probe and decided to put the magnetic thermometer on the Endeavor and compare the probe with the surface mount/stove top magnetic one on the same stove. I over time I found the correlation between the flue gas temp and the surface temp and used it to gage the flue gas temp on the Liberty.

I came to the conclusion that 500-600 is ideal on my Liberty and just shoot to keep in that range...trying to fuss over it any more was just a waste of time in my case (too busy feeding two stoves ;-) )