Got the voucher, need advice

[whitetailscout]

Hi there, new guy here, and I need some advice on selecting a pellet insert. I received a $2000 voucher toward the purchase of a new pellet stove from the Lung Association woodstove changeout program. I am looking for a pellet insert to be the primary heat source for our 1200 square foot ranch. We live in SE Massachusetts, we had our house insulated and air sealed this winter, and we are comfortable with the house between 65 and 70 degrees during the winter. The fireplace in the center of the house.

The voucher stipulates that the new stove be EPA certified, so it looks like Harman may be out of the equation. We have a reputable Quadrafire dealer near us, and they have recommend the Classic Bay insert for us. I have read mixed reviews on the Quadrafire, and we really had our heart set on a Harman. I have a few questions, and appreciate any input.

1. If we are actually able to get a Harman, would the P35i put out enough heat to keep us comfortable? Would the Accentra 52i put out TOO MUCH heat?

2. How is the quality/ operation of the Quadrafire Classic Bay?

3. Are there any other inserts we should consider?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

 

[Mt Bob]

I think you need to do a little more research.As I understand it,pellet stoves have not been required to be certified by the epa.Independent testers only have to certify that they meet epa standards.Harmans and quads are made by the same company.If you look at the epa chart on the voucher website you will see almost no new stoves(pellet) listed,and most listed have been out of buissness for quite some time.I recc. the harman as inserts are not easy to work on,and with their control system you do not have to worry about going too big.Call harman and see what they say about the voucher program.

 

[smwilliamson]

Problem being is that Harman took the EPA exemption default efficiency instead of actually getting their stoves certified. That's all going to change anyway with NSPS, but the rules of the chance out are that the new unit must be EPA certified. I believe the quad 1200 is certified, the Mt Vernon AE is not. Accentra and P35i are not. M55 insert is.

Think of it this way, most units, even the bigger ones, all run between 8k-10k buts on low. A bigger insert allows you to warm a room (or house) faster. We call it recovery time. While a smaller unit may do the job. A smaller stove will take longer when you get home and the house is cold.

FYI, I'm on that Massachusetts list of certified contractors and have been dealing with the tire kicking voucher folks all spring. There's a lot of misinformation out there.

As part of the process you have to have the EPA hang tag from the new unit. Harman doesn't have one. They missed the boat this time around.

 

[whitetailscout]

I don't see Pellet Stove Service listed as one of the participating retailers. Is there a different name your company uses?

http://www.lung.org/associations/charters/northeast/woodstove/Northeast_WCP.html

 

[whitetailscout]

I think you need to do a little more research.As I understand it,pellet stoves have not been required to be certified by the epa.Independent testers only have to certify that they meet epa standards.Harmans and quads are made by the same company.If you look at the epa chart on the voucher website you will see almost no new stoves(pellet) listed,and most listed have been out of buissness for quite some time.I recc. the harman as inserts are not easy to work on,and with their control system you do not have to worry about going too big.Call harman and see what they say about the voucher program.

Bob, I tried calling Harman, they are impossible to reach. When you call, their system directs you to a local dealer. The local Harman dealer told me that the Harman pellet stoves are not EPA certified, and not eligible for the Lung Association voucher unfortunately. However, I called another local Harman dealer, and he said he does accept the voucher. I then contacted the coordinator from the Lung Association that sends the vouchers, and she said that the pellet stove has to be EPA certified or not eligible. That is where the confusion comes from. If the Harman dealer takes the voucher, then when all is said and done the Lung Association doesn't approve, then I may get burned.

 

[pelletdude]

(broken link removed to http://www.epa.gov/Compliance/resources/publications/monitoring/caa/woodstoves/certifiedwood.pdf)

This is the list of approved appliances for the program.

 

[BKVP]

For what it is worth, is there a purchase requirement date for the voucher? As a wood stove mfg., we don't have a dog in the hunt for your business. However, I can tell you all the test agencies are jam packed with pellet appliances being certified. With the new NSPS requirements of pellet stoves, there will dozens of more certified units in the next 6 months. Be assured, all pellet mfg's want a certificate for the units before year end.

EPA usually updates the above referenced link every 30-60 days. But once the mfg has a certified unit, the label will be on the back of the unit.

 

[whitetailscout]

For what it is worth, is there a purchase requirement date for the voucher? As a wood stove mfg., we don't have a dog in the hunt for your business. However, I can tell you all the test agencies are jam packed with pellet appliances being certified. With the new NSPS requirements of pellet stoves, there will dozens of more certified units in the next 6 months. Be assured, all pellet mfg's want a certificate for the units before year end.

EPA usually updates the above referenced link every 30-60 days. But once the mfg has a certified unit, the label will be on the back of the unit.

Yes, I have 30 days to purchase before it expires, which for me is 7/3. Seems to rule out the Harman, unfortunately.

 

[stovelark]

Hello- Quad Classic bay 1200 is not on the list - The new E2 Mount Vernon is, the AE Mount Vernon is not. Most of the Enviro line is, I would check out the Empress (35K btu) or the Meridian (same class as the 1200 Classic Bay). The 1200 is on the fast track to get on the certified list.... You have 30 days to purchase once the voucher is received. Good luck with it, it is a helpful program, but funding is limited- get it done asap.

 

[johneh]

The Enviro M55 cast Insert is certified

 

[stovelark]

Yes, almost all of Enviro's pellet line is certified, not the maxx though.

 

[AK13]

Dang, I've been wanting to replace my old Morso 2B with a new EPA Morso 2B. But I can't justify spending $1k to do it. This program would pay for it, but not in NH.

Here are the details:

• Switch from a non-EPA certified wood stove to a new EPA certified wood stove, get $1,000.
• Switch from a hydronic heater to a new EPA certified wood stove, get $1,500.
• Get $2,000 for a new EPA certified pellet stove or gas stove.
• Get $300 for the retrofit of an existing non-EPA certified catalyst or hydronic heater.
• Get $3,000 for a EPA certified wood, pellet or gas stove, or indoor gas furnace if you receive Medicaid, are participating in the Low Income Heating Assistance Program or the Womens Infant and Childrens nutrition program.
• Get $4,000 if you are switching from a hydronic heaterfor a new EPA phase II (EPA qualified) hydronic heater (OWB) or indoor gas furnace

http://www.lung.org/associations/charters/northeast/woodstove/Northeast_WCP.html

• Switch from a non-EPA certified wood stove to a new EPA certified wood stove, get $1,000.

• Switch from a hydronic heater to a new EPA certified wood stove, get $1,500.

• Get $2,000 for a new EPA certified pellet stove or gas stove.

• Get $300 for the retrofit of an existing non-EPA certified catalyst or hydronic heater.

• Get $3,000 for a EPA certified wood, pellet or gas stove, or indoor gas furnace if you receive Medicaid, are participating in the Low Income Heating Assistance Program or the Womens Infant and Childrens nutrition program.

• Get $4,000 if you are switching from a hydronic heaterfor a new EPA phase II (EPA qualified) hydronic heater (OWB) or indoor gas furnace.

• Switch from a non-EPA certified wood stove to a new EPA certified wood stove, get $1,000.

• Switch from a hydronic heater to a new EPA certified wood stove, get $1,500.

• Get $2,000 for a new EPA certified pellet stove or gas stove.

• Get $300 for the retrofit of an existing non-EPA certified catalyst or hydronic heater.

• Get $3,000 for a EPA certified wood, pellet or gas stove, or indoor gas furnace if you receive Medicaid, are participating in the Low Income Heating Assistance Program or the Womens Infant and Childrens nutrition program.

• Get $4,000 if you are switching from a hydronic heaterfor a new EPA phase II (EPA qualified) hydronic heater (OWB) or indoor gas furnace.

 

[whitetailscout]

Hello- Quad Classic bay 1200 is not on the list - The new E2 Mount Vernon is, the AE Mount Vernon is not. Most of the Enviro line is, I would check out the Empress (35K btu) or the Meridian (same class as the 1200 Classic Bay). The 1200 is on the fast track to get on the certified list.... You have 30 days to purchase once the voucher is received. Good luck with it, it is a helpful program, but funding is limited- get it done asap.

Thanks for the info. Are you a dealer on the list? This feels a bit like being hungry with a $20 bill in your pocket, and the only thing around is a vending machine that only takes $1 bills! On the list of participating dealers near me there are Harman dealers that apparently can't sell me a stove. There are Enviro and Regency dealers near me, and they are not on the list of participating dealers. I also have a Quadrafire dealer, and apparently they can't sell me the stove seems to best fit my needs. I am not looking a gift horse in the mouth, $2000 is an awesome incentive, but they sure do make it complicated to use!

If the Harman dealer that told me that he can accept the voucher for the p35i actually takes the voucher and closes the deal, am I all set, or will I be liable for it? I am not suggesting being dishonest, I was upfront about it with him, and he said he would accept it.

 

[02809bristol]

I was told that Harman is in process of getting EPA approval presently by more than one dealer.
Maybe contact lung association and ask if you enter into agreement with a deposit for Harman 52i , will voucher be valid if EPA certifies unit before installation ???? I would definitely ask .
We settle for something you don't want to buy!
Harman wood stoves ARE EPA certified already, so I can't see any problems with pellet models not passing testing

 

[stovelark]

I would definitely make sure the stove you purchase is indeed on the list- these vouchers have to be done precisely correct or they may leave folks hanging... Yes I do work at a store who is on the list. PC me if you want info, but with a pellet stove it is usually very important to buy locally so service isn't an issue, I'd suggest buying locally to yourself...

 

[whitetailscout]

I would definitely make sure the stove you purchase is indeed on the list- these vouchers have to be done precisely correct or they may leave folks hanging... Yes I do work at a store who is on the list. PC me if you want info, but with a pellet stove it is usually very important to buy locally so service isn't an issue, I'd suggest buying locally to yourself...

Thanks for all of the input guys. I wound up putting a deposit on an Enviro Empress this afternoon. The Empress had a $350 manufacturer rebate, and that is in addition to the $2000 voucher. I just hope I got a good stove. The dealer seems reputable, if a little cranky. He definitely would not negotiate on the price, and seemed to be a bit surprised that I would ask him to negotiate a bit even though I was getting all of the rebates.

 

[John Ackerly]

Hello- Quad Classic bay 1200 is not on the list - The new E2 Mount Vernon is, the AE Mount Vernon is not. Most of the Enviro line is, I would check out the Empress (35K btu) or the Meridian (same class as the 1200 Classic Bay). The 1200 is on the fast track to get on the certified list.... You have 30 days to purchase once the voucher is received. Good luck with it, it is a helpful program, but funding is limited- get it done asap.

That program has tons of money left. They only spent $193,000 out of $1.8 million, and expect funds to last into the next heating season. If Harman gets their stoves certified quick enough, there will probably still be money left to buy one. They claim 85% efficiency in their advertisements, which of course of LHV, but they don't tell the consumer that. I also doubt its a B415-1 measurement, but it could be. Anyone from Harman on here that can verify how their efficiencies are tested?

 

[tjnamtiw]

The M55 is a beautiful insert AND it has a system to roll it out to do maintenance. After spending all day yanking two of my Quads out, I wish, WISH, that I had such a system!

 

[whitetailscout]

That program has tons of money left. They only spent $193,000 out of $1.8 million, and expect funds to last into the next heating season. If Harman gets their stoves certified quick enough, there will probably still be money left to buy one. They claim 85% efficiency in their advertisements, which of course of LHV, but they don't tell the consumer that. I also doubt its a B415-1 measurement, but it could be. Anyone from Harman on here that can verify how their efficiencies are tested?

Yes, my neighbor and I both received our vouchers in the mail on Saturday, and we are under #100. The kicker is that I have to use mine by July 3, and I bet that the folks on the tail end of the program will be able to get a Harman. The price I got on the Enviro was $3249 - $350 manufacturer rebate= $2900. Deduct the $2000, and I am paying $900 + installation and tax. Does anyone know if I could get a better price elsewhere?

 

[NHcpa]

Yes, my neighbor and I both received our vouchers in the mail on Saturday, and we are under #100. The kicker is that I have to use mine by July 3, and I bet that the folks on the tail end of the program will be able to get a Harman. The price I got on the Enviro was $3249 - $350 manufacturer rebate= $2900. Deduct the $2000, and I am paying $900 + installation and tax. Does anyone know if I could get a better price elsewhere?

Steal it.

 

[whitetailscout]

Steal it.

Ha, I was thinking it would have been nice of him to throw in a free ton of pellets, especially since I may get him another sale when my neighbor uses his voucher!

 

[stovelark]

Hi Whitetail answered your PC earlier- sounds like you got a good deal. That price is a bit off from current MSRP, sounds like your deal was an awesome one.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Buy it while you can still spend your neighbors' tax dollars! What a country!

 

[whitetailscout]

Buy it while you can still spend your neighbors' tax dollars! What a country!

Thanks for your helpful reply.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Thanks for your helpful reply.