Have we reached a tipping point?

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
79,090
South Puget Sound, WA
  • Like
Reactions: AlbergSteve

AlbergSteve

Minister of Fire
Dec 11, 2017
603
Vancouver Island
A few years ago my wife used climate change as a base for for teaching grammar, writing skills and critical thinking in her first year university courses. She had to stop because it got too depressing for her and too traumatizing for the students.:(
 

WinterinWI

Member
Dec 6, 2018
112
Wisconsin
Wow, I guess there will be no need for seasoned wood for winter 2021. Shame I spent the last couple days splitting and stacking.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ashful

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
79,090
South Puget Sound, WA
It's not like flipping a switch, at least I hope not :eek:. And it doesn't mean the end of winter soon in WI. But things may get uncomfortable with the transalaska pipeline sitting on all that permafrost.
 

Microduck17

Member
Dec 21, 2017
158
New Concord Ohio
The human race has taken so much for granted for so long. I suppose its going to take everything being turned upside down before enough people wake up to make meaningful change.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: sloeffle

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
6,472
Eastern Central PA
We are already in a normal warming period. Between glacier periods. Without it we probably wouldnt be here. Dont worry it will only take medium size asteroid or one of the many volcanoes worldwide erupting to cool things off again ,perhaps too much. Enjoy it while you can.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WinterinWI

semipro

Minister of Fire
Jan 12, 2009
3,610
SW Virginia
A few years ago my wife used climate change as a base for for teaching grammar, writing skills and critical thinking in her first year university courses. She had to stop because it got too depressing for her and too traumatizing for the students.:(
I've come to a similar conclusion lately. I like to discuss concepts and events rather than people or sports. The trouble is that discussing topics like this or politics has become such a downer that I find I avoid those conversations now to avoid being a downer.
It doesn't leave me a lot to discuss so I focus on projects -- which is why I like hanging out here and in the DIY room.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
79,090
South Puget Sound, WA
It is a bummer, but I have kids and need to help plan for their futures. We may slow down what we have started, but reversal at this stage seems quite unlikely. I find myself and some in our community starting to face the questions raised if we admit that we have passed the point of reversing what has been done. These are huge systems with a momentum that carries for a very long time. If so, what are the anticipated effects, how do we adjust? How do we help those affected and provide the needs of the community?
 

Knots

Minister of Fire
Mar 13, 2013
1,173
Alfred, Maine
I worked in aviation. Manufacturers brought new engines to market that get 15% better gas mileage but operators are flying something like 20% more aircraft and they spend more time in the air. I dunno if technology is going to keep pace with a new direction...
 
  • Like
Reactions: vinny11950

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
6,472
Eastern Central PA
We may slow down what we have started, but reversal at this stage seems quite unlikely.
Reversal is not in our list of options. We didn t start it,it started 12000 yrs ago . We may
affect the pace of the current warming period around the edges but we give ourselves too much credit for that. After all it has been much warmer in the past than is is now or will get anytime soon. All the hysteria should go toward dealing with the inevitable results instead of the blame game. Ill start listening to the radicals when they give up their cars ,air travel,burgers and smart phones and all live off the grid. Until then they are just as culpable as anyone else.
These are huge systems with a momentum that carries for a very long time. If so, what are the anticipated effects, how do we adjust? How do we help those affected and provide the needs of the community?
This is the right response. IMO
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
79,090
South Puget Sound, WA
Reversal is not in our list of options. We didn t start it,it started 12000 yrs ago . We may
affect the pace of the current warming period around the edges but we give ourselves too much credit for that.
Different cause and effect. That's a whole different ball game. They are not equivalent and don't correlate. Atmospheric CO2 levels have not been this high for millions of years. This increase started with the industrial revolution.

Screen Shot 2019-10-12 at 2.10.12 PM.png
 
Last edited:

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
6,472
Eastern Central PA
Different cause and effect. They are not equivalent and don't correlate. That's a whole different ball game. Atmospheric CO2 levels have not been this high for millions of years. This increase started with the industrial revolution.
But whats the solution. Since virtually no one is willing to give up that industrial revolution the only thing left is preparing for the effects. Even if the whole US decided to go back to the stone age the rest of the world that matters will not. We should be discussing how to deal with it ,not whose fault it is. We already know its everyones. The amount of warming we can turn around at this point is probably insignificant. I think the tipping point was most likely 50 yrs ago or more.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
But whats the solution. Since virtually no one is willing to give up that industrial revolution the only thing left is preparing for the effects. Even if the whole US decided to go back to the stone age the rest of the world that matters will not. We should be discussing how to deal with it ,not whose fault it is. We already know its everyones. The amount of warming we can turn around at this point is probably insignificant. I think the tipping point was most likely 50 yrs ago or more.
Start by voting in a President that recognizes climate change. This is a huge aspect, there are many nations around around the world that are devoted to reducing carbon, but are reluctant to when the largest emitter (the US) pulls out of the Paris Agreement and continues business as usual.

The fact is that some of the most developed countries with the best ability to reduce the dependence on Fossil Fuels choose not to, instead asking developing countries to reduce their emissions. Could any of us imagine what North America would be like without 300 years of the use of fossil fuels to advance our societies? It is our turn to go first.

I'm also not convinced there is a tipping point as such, it is all shades of grey, the more CO2 we dump into the atmosphere the faster the temperature will rise, the higher it will peak, and the longer it will take to return to "normal".
 

semipro

Minister of Fire
Jan 12, 2009
3,610
SW Virginia
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bholler

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
6,472
Eastern Central PA
I think its recognition rather than blame.

Put graphically - https://xkcd.com/1732/
Realistic solutions are needed, not the "green new deal" . Im all for solutions that work. And realistically ones people will accept on a large scale,preferably worldwide. Id say we are most likely looking at the current path of warming or higher given population growth and more people moving from undevoloped nations to developed ones. So we had better get busy with solutions that work. Im not optimistic about it happening.
 
Last edited:

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,021
Philadelphia
Americans have always been among the most productive in the world. That there is proof!

Our biggest problem is that we’ve tied the recognition of climate change to our political ideologies, the modern religion. I don’t know the solution, but the problem is obvious, both sides are speaking about unconfirmed probabilities as if they’re proven fact.

The reality is that the incomplete data we have mostly supports the view of the left, but having been so wrapped up in national politics, we have half the country who can’t accept it. Past exaggerations and jumps to incorrect conclusions don’t help the cause, and give opposition more justification to continue arguing the point.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,021
Philadelphia
Americans have always been among the most productive in the world. That there is proof!

Our biggest problem is that we’ve tied the recognition of climate change to our political ideologies, the modern religion. I don’t know the solution, but the problem is obvious, both sides are speaking about unconfirmed probabilities as if they’re proven fact.

The reality is that the data we have mostly supports the view of the left, but having been so wrapped up in national politics, we have half the country who can’t accept it. As long as the politician fighting for climate change is also trying to take a larger fraction of my hard-earned income as a penalty for working hard and being successful, it’s impossible to support them. Past exaggerations and jumps to incorrect conclusions don’t help the cause, and give opposition more justification to continue arguing the point.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
16,339
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
There never was a way to stop “it”. Just a lot of people trying to profit from “it”. Just like the people trying to profit by causing “it”. We’re all trying to do the best for ourselves.
At this point that means making choices that help us thrive if “it” ever happens. I’m not buying a low bank waterfront home on the ocean for example.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
79,090
South Puget Sound, WA
But whats the solution. Since virtually no one is willing to give up that industrial revolution the only thing left is preparing for the effects. Even if the whole US decided to go back to the stone age the rest of the world that matters will not. We should be discussing how to deal with it ,not whose fault it is. We already know its everyones. The amount of warming we can turn around at this point is probably insignificant. I think the tipping point was most likely 50 yrs ago or more.
That is a good question. It is a multi-faceted issue. Here are the top 20 addressable points to slowdown carbon emissions in order of effect.

Screen Shot 2019-10-13 at 11.49.12 AM.png


 
  • Like
Reactions: Ashful

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
2,893
Downeast Maine
I think free education and Healthcare would also go a long ways in reducing the carbon footprint. More educated folks working on the problem, the better and a healthier population is a less needy population.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlbergSteve

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
6,472
Eastern Central PA
I think free education and Healthcare would also go a long ways in reducing the carbon footprint. More educated folks working on the problem, the better and a healthier population is a less needy population.
You do know there is no such thing as "free" ,just things someone else is paying for. Heathcare was never this expensive until more people got it for free, now its unaffordable to many of those paying for it. Same with education , the Govt is wrecking that with easy student loans. All the easy money pushing tuition thru the roof. Your carbon footprint grows with income, so higher income earners have a larger carbon footprint. Sometimes much larger, think al gore and those in his income bkt.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
6,472
Eastern Central PA
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: sloeffle