Hearth Stone Homestead Instead of Insert?

[Vic99]

My wife and I finally want to take the plunge into full time woodburning. We have a 2 story 1920 Dutch Gambrel house (1550 square feet) on the MA/NH line. It has a very small fireplace in the 15x15 ft living room. We were going to go with a Hampton wood burning insert, but were disappointed to discover when putting together the final deal that our existing fireplace is too shallow (just under 17 inches at the floor, 14 inches at the top).

I'm willing to take wood finish away from the existing fireplace to meet code, but am not willing to resize the fireplace.

So far we have not found a smaller insert that our dealer recommends for heating the whole house.

That all said, now we are warming up to the Hearthstone Homestead (50k BTU, 2.0 cubic ft firebox, 1.9 g/hr) and its soapstone. Apparently this can be mounted in front of the hearth and the dealer agreed to design a steel frame so that you could not see through the legs to the back of the fireplace and such.

One drawback, a fan with a built in thermostat is not available (grrrr). Is the lack of a fan a huge drawback?

Have people had good experiences with this woodstove . . . anyone have this configuration?

I like the idea of soapstone in general, but obviously this is a big purchase.

Thanks for all your help . . . the people in this forum are great!

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

the fan is a waste IMO, use a ceiling fan to circulate the heat. All the surface area of the stove is in the room, you just need to move it around.
Its a fantastic stove, you will like the way the soapstone heats.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

with a name like that, we must have another aquarium geek as one of our new members!

 

[BrotherBart]

the fan is a waste IMO, use a ceiling fan to circulate the heat. All the surface area of the stove is in the room, you just need to move it around.
Its a fantastic stove, you will like the way the soapstone heats.

I will give up the fan on my stove when they pry the poker out of my cold dead fingers.

 

[rdrcr56]

We have been burning a homestead for three months now and are very happy with it. The soapstone is nice in that we throw a split on when we leave for work and when we get home the stove is still 150-200 degrees and the house is comfortable. For the overnight burn depending on wood type there is plenty of coals to start the fire in the morning after 7 hours.

 

[begreen]

the fan is a waste IMO, use a ceiling fan to circulate the heat. All the surface area of the stove is in the room, you just need to move it around.
Its a fantastic stove, you will like the way the soapstone heats.

I will give up the fan on my stove when they pry the poker out of my cold dead fingers.

That perhaps, could be arranged.... in the summer, while those cold fingers are wrapped around a bourbon on the rocks .

 

[Rhone]

That house doesn't sound tight at all, you'll be feeding a small insert constantly so I'd go for a stove out on the hearth configuration. I purchased a 60,000 btu soapstone insert with a 2.4 cu ft firebox, I live a little colder than you and it was just enough to handle my 1962 drafty house at 1,400 sq ft. The sq ft. size stated on a stove I think is a well insulated house in somewhat mild climates. Has your house been upgraded? If you still have the original windows & insulation you'll find the Homestead too small, the Heritage is the smallest I'd start looking at. I'd recommend one with around a 2.3+ cu ft firebox. I've been upgrading my house and previously the 2.4 cu ft firebox unit was just right now, after upgrading my attic to R49, replacing leaky old windows, insulating some walls, and my basement I'm now on the verge of it being too big. Before the upgrades I burned 4x a day and the house stayed around 70. Now, after the upgrades the smallest load I can burn efficiently my house heats up 8-12F per burn and I'm now around 2x/day to keep the house 70. My unit is pretty close now to having too much power for my house.

Judge a stove by its firebox size, I'd look for units that are around 2.3+ and don't pay any attention to max btu's or house sq footage. A 72% efficient steel stove with a 2.4 cu ft firebox and a same but soapstone should both heat the house in the end the same. Steel/Cast Iron is better at quickly heating a house at the risk of potentially overheating the room it's in while heating your house, soapstone is more even heat with minimal risk of overheating the room while heating your house but not as capable as quickly heating it. It depends on your style.

 

[Turner-n-Burner]

I looked briefly at that stove, but a full insert (Hearthstone Clydesdale same as Rhone's) was a perfect fit, so I didn't pursue it much further. If I recall correctly, rear heat shield is an option for that stove and is used in conjunction with the blower. I think that would help a LOT !

I'm in Burlington, on the Wilmington line off of '93 - probably not all that far from you - you are welcome to check out my insert in person and feel the difference that the blowers make.

Re: thermostat for the blowers, I had the same thought initially, and there are plug in controllers on the market that would do that if it is really important to you. But mostly I think you'll find that you'll either want the air to circulate (i.e to drive warm air around the rest of the house) or you'll want the blowers off, and that decision will depend more on where you are and what you are doing at the time than what the temperature is.

-Dan

 

[Rhone]

You can expect to get an extra 2000-3000 BTU's per hour for each foot of exposed pipe.

I came to the same thing Dylan says putzing around with this. Single wall steel pipe at 450F inside temp should add around 2,600 btu's/hr (3,700 if 600F inside), if the next foot is 50F cooler it adds 2,200 btu's/hr (or 3,300 if started at 600F) etc, etc. What's surprising is the effect of air turbulance, which makes me think maybe my math is wrong. Air turbulance increases that to 10,100 btu's/hr. I guess that may answer the importance of ceiling fans or blowers.

Here's my math if anyone can point out if I did it wrong.

(Surface Area x (Temp difference inside vs. outside))
-------------------------------------------------------------
((Thickness / thermal conductivity) + (1/air turbulance))

Surface Area = 1.57 for 1 foot of steel pipe
Temp Difference = 375F (I used 450F inside flue temp - 75F air temp)
Thickness = 0.0299 (22 gauge, 24 gauge makes insignificant difference in end btus)
Thermal conductivity steel = 20 (also makes insignificant ending btu difference at such thin thickness)
air turbulance = 4.5 if still air or 17.5 if fan blowing on it

 

[Vic99]

Thanks for all the responses.

Our house is so-so on insulation. The roof is now R-40 and I will do windows next Spring.

We will probably not go with exposed pipe for appearance . . .doesn't work for our living room. good suggestion though.

If I place the stove in front of the fireplace and vent exhaust through the fireplace opening, will the chimney heat up significantly to store and release heat? This unit is rated at 1.9 g/hr and 50 k BTU.

We will line the chimney first.

Thanks again.

 

[Rhone]

The Homestead should be okay but I wouldn't go any smaller. The Homstead is designed for exactly what you want to do, it's extra narrow and has options others don't specifically for dealing with fireplaces. I think it's a wise choice.

The liner running through the chimney does warm it, it only matters if your chimney is on the inside of your house. If your chimney is on the outside, the air out there sucks all the heat out of the masonry. My chimney is inside and my insert heats up the masonry and it releases noticeable amounts of the stored heat for about 6+ hours after the fire goes out. But, it's important to understand it releases radiant energy. The surface temp is probably around 110F, it's not a type of heat that moves air around the house and goes room to room. It's only useable in those rooms the chimney runs through, and it's like a gentle sunlight. It basically makes the rooms it runs through feel about 2-4F warmer than those that don't. Since I have a ranch the warming of the masonry only affects the room with the fireplace, and the room behind it. My in-laws have their pipe running up through their bedroom above and it makes their bedroom feel warmer, they wish they'd designed their house a little different to avoid that but at least it runs through the middle of the house.

I think the Homestead would be a wise choice especially if you continue to make energy improvements. It's probably borderline right now, but with new windows and continuing energy improvements my feeling is it will become better & better. What's in your walls?

 

[yukiginger]

I agree with Rhonemas's earlier post, concerning size. Is your hearth raised or is it deep enough to handle a larger stove like the Heritage? The Heritage might work if the rear flue exit would still work with your height. I would recommend at least that size to try to heat the house. If you have a raised hearth you could have it extended to fit a larger stove. If it isn't you might be good, although you might need an extended pad.

MarkG

 

[Vic99]

My chimney runs through the center of the house.

The fireplace itself is small (30 inches h x 28 inches wide x 16 7/8 inches deep [14 inches at the shallowest part of the bevel]). If my fireplace was larger I would have gone with a hampton iron insert . . . .

My hearth is not raised. It is at floor level. Unfortunately, it seems my options are limited . . . . but at least many of you thing that the homestead is a decent or better choice for my set up. I will continue to upgrade insulation.

My walls have vermiculate in them. . . . I wanted to hire someone to blow cellulose in, but this old house has knob and tube wiring. Even though I've removed the remenants from the attic and it not visibly connected to any electricity box that I can see, I can't get grant money from the state to help me put it in. I was told that although it probably is inactive, no electrician will stake his license on it from a safety standpoint.

I also have vinyl siding on my walls. The original wood siding was in very good shape, so it was left and 3/8 inch blueboard was put over the wood siding . . . not a lot of help, but I figure an extra R 2 or 3 . . . I'll take what I can get.

So I should expect a small amount of radiant heat from the chimney with this stove, even though the soapstone stove unit will not actually touch the hearth, but will be in front?

Thanks.

 

[Rhone]

I just realized the Hearthstone Clydesdale insert, which is what I own is probably perfect sized at 2.4 cu ft firebox. It will fit in your fireplace to if depth is your only concern it only needs (broken link removed to http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/wood_stoves/clydesdale/technical_specs.shtml). It can be pushed in 5" or pulled out 5", you'd need it pulled out. It's got blowers, probably one of the biggest views, it's soapstone lined so buffers heat spikes, has a 2.4 cu ft firebox perfect sized for your house, you don't have to fill it up as much with the big firebox, and I love 21" splits! The more I think about it, the more I think it's perfect for this situation. Though, in your house it would need to rest 5" out on the hearth and it needs 18" in front of the loading door that's a 23" hearth. You may need to get a hearth pad. It also has low mantel clearances. But, don't expect to be cooking on it, the "cooking surface" is insulated so it doesn't get hot enough to cook.

You will feel some radiant energy regardless insert or stove from the chimney because (I hope you're not considering a direct connect) your stainless liner running up the chimney should be capped at the top and bottom preventing air leaks. With a 450F - 600F pipe running up your chimney it heats up the masonry and from there transfers gently into the rooms around the chimney on all floors. It doesn't cause much for air temperature gain but it gives off a gentle warm sun light sort of feeling that makes the rooms feel a little more comfortable than what the air temperature says.

If you're now set on Homestead or Heritage, the Heritage is a better sized stove for you house but not designed as well for in front of fireplaces and you may need to increase clearances more. The Homestead is more designed for fireplaces and what you want to do but you may need to turn on the house heating on those really cold days to give it a little boost.

 

[Vic99]

I followed the Clydesdale link that you supplied. If I am reading the specs correctly I'm afraid it will not work.

The width of my fireplace is 28 inches, not the 31 1/16 min.

I do not know if the builder would directly connect, but I will ask.

Someone from the store (The Stove Shoppe in Windham, NH) is going to come out and look at my fireplace on Monday. Fortunately for me they do not seem bent on making a sale at all costs . . . that are sticking to the safety specs. I really hope that we can make something work because I am starting to realize that my fireplace is smaller than most (30 T x 28 W x 17 D [14 D at closest point]). It has been a bit frustrating.

Although I can probably find an insert to fit my small hearth, my goal is to heat the whole house (1550 sq ft) or nearly so.

I do not know if it is realistic to get the builder to modify my fireplace opening to make this work . . . I don't want this to turn into a large project that costs lots more.

Thanks.

 

[ourhouse]

the fan is a waste IMO, use a ceiling fan to circulate the heat. All the surface area of the stove is in the room, you just need to move it around.
Its a fantastic stove, you will like the way the soapstone heats.

I will give up the fan on my stove when they pry the poker out of my cold dead fingers.

Same hear, I wont buy a nother stove without one.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

earth and bb, you guys burn steel stoves. Steel is going to have much more transfer then soapstone. but, how can a celing fan and a stove blower be different? Are there parts of the stove installed in a cavity that you need to recoup heat from? or is all the stove in the room ? If all the stove is in the room, then how can a fan on the stove make any more difference then a celing fan, on reverse, and on low do? Blowers make a difference on inserts and fireplaces, where there is heat loss, stoves you get the OPTION of either a celing fan or a blower. You need one or the other. I would never adivise a cutomer to limit there stove choice based on blower avaliblity.