Hearthstone Homestead - Suggestions for poor draft?

[tutu_sue]

Your wood is wet, no question about it. I have a smaller Hearthstone stove and they are very finicky about dryness of the wood. Last week my husband took wood off the wrong rack and I had to leave the door open and air open and not getting much heat out of it and having it gone in less than an hour. I had to open door a lot and rearrange and got smoke in the house. I also saw the wood was very black while it burned and left big black unburnt chunks. I split a piece of that wood tested it with te meter and it was 22%. Not ready for prime time. EPA stoves need very dry wood and my Hearthstone loves 15% or less, 20% is marginal. When I have good wood, they turn grey while burning and I get a very fine white ash with no chunks at all. The embers that are left are glowing bright orange not black. Black means wet wood.

***** IF YOU HAVE TO KEEP MESSING WITH IT, YOUR WOOD IS NOT DRY ENOUGH!**** Until you test a freshly split log with a moisture meter and prove otherwise, I have to say your wood is not up to par for an EPA stove. If any part of your chimney is outside, your 8 inch chimney is too big for proper operations on that stove. For ideal burns and utmost efficiency you need very dry wood and a 6" insulated liner in your chimney or that stove will never make you happy.

 

[They Call Me Pete]

Never mind he installed a OAK already.

 

[thinkxingu]

The symptoms you're describing are not associated with any stoves, never mind EPA ones. Smoke coming out, wood not burning thoroughly, high temps only when door is cracked/air fully open? It's not the stove.

S

 

[REF1]

So, apparently you feel a 30 year old mantel is not dry enough to catch fast and burn thoroughly? Sheesh. If THAT isn't dry enough, nothing can be dry enough. Same with strips of pine from all the wood working I do.

I'll end up installing a 6" flue. But the draft on the stove is not good. Period. Cutting a tunnel through a load of wood and leaving chunks is ridiculous.

 

[Todd]

Try blocking that hole in that lower front dog house and see if it makes a difference.

 

[REF1]

You mean the main air intake in the firebox? I would question if it is blocked somewhere, but when I place the hair dryer under the stove it shows no signs blockage. Of course, the dryer is forcing air through the system, and could be going by some kind of blockage. As I said, if the firebox draft port is blocked by anything virtually no air gets to the wood at all unless I open the door. The upper tubes show no signs of support until a good fire is going.

I have thought of drilling holes along the bottom of the plate on each side of the main air intake to increase air getting to all parts of the firebox. But, they could and would get ash and stuff in them and be rendered useless. I thought the same of installing some kind of air intake in the side of the unit. Probably not something one can purchase and install, like a spin draft or something.

To answer a recurring question - the chimney is inside the house.

Btw, I generally DO rake all coals to the front and place wood in the back and load it forwards. So, here we have a bed of live coals raked to the front and they all go dead save for those right in front of the draft port. So, I crack the door.

The load gets so little air, even coals go out. It is not the wood, folks. A 6" flue will draw faster. That's the last resort.

To those who like their Homestead's performance, more power to you. To me, there are design flaws which show in the performance I'm getting.

 

[REF1]

Consider this morning, like every morning. Lots of coals, more than I actually need or desire. A huge pile for this size firebox. Anyway, rake them all forward, place new sticks in the back and stack forward as much as I can, close the door and expect the intense heat to ignite the load. Not so. Half hour later I have dead coals, smoldering wood, so, I crack the door and the load bursts into flames. Literally. The problem is, it's extremely windy outside and backpuffing is definite at some points in this process.

 

[REF1]

Okay, so I see lots of flames and the load is going pretty well. So, let's close the door and see what happens. Ah, as usual the fire begins to extinguish little by little, save for some combustion right in front of the draft port. Well, let's crack the door ... BAM ... flames all over the place again.

It is not the wood. The draft on this stove sucks. And I hate that word. But I also hate this stove.

Done.

 

[DanCorcoran]

Does Hearthstone specify a flue size for your stove?

 

[tutu_sue]

I'm confused about your saying you have an outside air supply and blowing a hair dryer under the stove making a difference. I also have the outside air kit and it attaches to the bottom stove with screws and covers both the primary and secondary air inlets. I was reading the Homestead manual and it says air entering the chimney say from a cleanout door, thimble or other cracks in the chimney will kill draft. All parts of the venting system stove pipe and chimney must be air sealed. How far does the lateral pipe go into the chimney?

 

[Todd]

You mean the main air intake in the firebox? I would question if it is blocked somewhere, but when I place the hair dryer under the stove it shows no signs blockage. Of course, the dryer is forcing air through the system, and could be going by some kind of blockage. As I said, if the firebox draft port is blocked by anything virtually no air gets to the wood at all unless I open the door. The upper tubes show no signs of support until a good fire is going.

I have thought of drilling holes along the bottom of the plate on each side of the main air intake to increase air getting to all parts of the firebox. But, they could and would get ash and stuff in them and be rendered useless. I thought the same of installing some kind of air intake in the side of the unit. Probably not something one can purchase and install, like a spin draft or something.

To answer a recurring question - the chimney is inside the house.

Btw, I generally DO rake all coals to the front and place wood in the back and load it forwards. So, here we have a bed of live coals raked to the front and they all go dead save for those right in front of the draft port. So, I crack the door.

The load gets so little air, even coals go out. It is not the wood, folks. A 6" flue will draw faster. That's the last resort.

To those who like their Homestead's performance, more power to you. To me, there are design flaws which show in the performance I'm getting.

Some people here have cut off the air to those front bottom so called dog house or zipper air supplies which increases the primary air down through the air wash which may give better results. I stress MAY, I'm no engineer but I can see how that zipper air can screw with your fire.

Another thing to check is your air slide. Look under the stove and work the air slide back and forth, see if it opens all the way or if there is a bolt in the way. I had to trim off a bolt sticking too far out the air slide housing that kept me from opening the draft about 1/4".

 

[Dakotas Dad]

It definatly sounds like you have ruled out the wood as a problem. I am currently installing the same stove and have been through the manual front to back, sideways, digital copy on my iPhone to study.. my guess is your draft is just not strong enough. From reading about a thousand posts here on Hearth.com, and from what I have read in the manual, it's about the only thing it can be, but also looks pretty obvious to me.

you appear to have 3 feet of verticle single wall pipe, into a 90 degree elbow, into 2 feet of horizontal pipe, dumping into a 8x8 masonry flue (effectivly another 90 degree turn). My degree is not in fluid dynamics, but I did have to study quite a bit of it at one point, and with out a meter it's hard to guess how poor your draft may be, but I gather from my reading that 2 90's are the max you should have, in a perfect system. yours appears to be far from perfect. You have too many flow reducers, and eddy creators, without enough free flow increasers. My guess is you would be very happy with the stove if you added 6" insulated chimney up to the top of you chase. Your house has enough pressure to "push" air through a large opening (the door) when it's open. But not enough to push through the air control opening, and the flow of your chimney system (draft) is not enough to "pull" air through the air control opening either, do too resistence from the turns and horizontal pipe, dumping into a low pressure area at the bottom of your chimney.

 

[REF1]

The draft slide works fine. No problems there.

Well, the 8" chimney seems the only logical conclusion. BTW, the pipe run is now a 45 from the stove and 45 into the chimney. The smoke would travel around 14" into the horizontal clay pipe and make a 90 up the chimney.

Thus far there is only ONE sweep in this area for a three state region. He came out and checked my flue, but he is not licensed to install steel flues. Looks like I am on my own on this one. I hate roofs, and this one is a 12 pitch. Metal, too.

This is one project of this renovation I am dreading already.

 

[DanCorcoran]

REF1,

What part of VA? We live in Richmond, but the cabin is just across the WV state line from Harrisonburg/Broadway VA. (I also lived in Houston 20 years, in the 80s and 90s). The cabin has a 12 pitch roof...they are scheduled to install the stove and chimney this Thursday, if the snow's not too deep to get to the cabin.

In regard to your draft problem, this is from my Hearthstone Shelburne manual:
"Make sure the size of the chimney’s flue is
appropriate for the Shelburne. The Shelburne
requires a 6" (152 mm) inside diameter flue for
new installations. A 6” diameter flue provides
adequate draft and performance. You can use
an 8" (203 mm) diameter existing flue with a
reducer. An oversized flue contributes to
creosote accumulation. (In this case, bigger is
NOT better.)"

I realize yours is not a Shelburne, but what got my attention was that last line...

 

[REF1]

Update - Got a moisture meter, one recommended here. All my firewood is 16-19%. Good firewood.

Just installed a 6" liner (which went better than I expected), and added another foot a half extension to the chimney making it over 17.'

I notice no crucial difference in stove performance. I still have to crack the door to get a fire going. Still get some smoke in my face when I carefully open the door, have this ridiculous draft cutting my wood in two and leaving large chunks of dead coal in the morning, and I am done with this stove.

Wish I could have given a better report. I just can't. Once I leave the cosmetics of the enamel finish this stove goes downhill fast. It's on Craigslist, and Pacific Energy is on my list.

For those of you who love your Homesteads ... more power to you. Mine is not close to worth the $2800 we paid for it, and has made my winter nothing but a headache, literally. I'm selling it for 1700. Maybe someone else will have better luck with it.

 

[Todd]

Sorry to hear that. Did you ever try to plug that front bottom dog house air that cuts your wood in half?

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Sorry you couldn't get it to work, mine is cruising right now at 400, where it's been for an hour. Got up to a fair coal bed, tossed 4 splits on, air open fully, walked/fed dogs, started some muffins, rearranged the wood that was blazing, added two splits to the top, cut air down to about 1/2, top two lit up, air down to about 25%, should run right there until this afternoon sometime.. rinse and repeat.

I wish you were closer, since you have decided to get rid of it, my neighbors LOVE ours and would buy it in a heartbeat. Since we have been up and running, they have called a couple times with pizza on the way (we just became eligible for delivery pizza, and are still the last house they will come to distance wise) and we ate here in the living room, just because she loves the stove.

I can't remember if you said, but what stove was in there before? Maybe you should go back to that one if it ran good for you, or more probably, a newer version of it.

Anyways, good luck, I know I hate being frustrated by something I think should be working fine, but is not.

 

[REF1]

No, I didn't try to plug the bottom draft. Not sure how I would do that. Stuff the holes with bolts?

The last stove I had was a 3' catalytic Elm. Not made anymore. Well, actually, someone still makes a 24" but no longer cats. Good stove though.

Right now I am pretty settled on a Fusion. Even if the Homestead didn't smoke my face all the time it has not kept the house warm when the temp really drops, so we need more BTUs. Everything I have read about the firebox Pacific puts out seems to make for a great draft, I like the convection aspect for where the stove sits in the house, and the Fusion allows for loading logs straight in, which I like. Plus it's higher up, which is good for my back. I have found loading the Homestead to be very tricky, mostly because of the shape of the firebox. It's tough to load up with that pitched roof.