Hearthstone Mansfield on it's way

[Flame]

Thanks for the support guys.
Unfortunately this Inspector does not have a Supervisor-he is "the man". He is by no means young either. He has been doing this for over 22 years. Don't get me wrong. he seems to be a very nice guy but he feels that "all" chimneys, being masonry or pipe should have a clean out at the bottom of the flu. He seems pretty stuck on this even though the written rules on having to have a clean out at the end of the flu only applies to masonry chimneys. This was pointed out to him by the installer but he seems stuck on it. Today Hearthstone did send a letter to the place that I purchased my stove and they in turn tried to contact the Inspector and were going to send it to him. The thing was that the Inspectors office is only open from 8:00 to 12:00 on Fridays so it was too late. I have to wait until Monday. Since it is coming from the makers of the wood stove I would think that should cover it but it will be entirely up to him. Enchanted Fireside has been very helpful and are trying to cautiously approach this. I think there is a bit of chest beating here and pushing too hard can make it worse. I was told by two of the building contractors at Enchanted Fireside that in the end the Town Inspector has the final say. I will get some pictures a while when I am finished painting the wall behind it.
Still patiently waiting for this to be resolved.
Thanks

 

[DriftWood]

Hi Guys,

Looks like you guys like your Mansfields. Isn't that the largest stove Hearthstone makes?

Carpniels

No, the Equinox Woodstove
Model #8000 from Hearthstone is the big one now.
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/images/lgequinox.jpg)


Heats up to: 3,500 sq. ft.

Burn Time: Up to 12 hours

Heat Life: Up to 16 hours

Size:120,000 BTUs

Maximum Log Length: 25"

EPA Rating: 3.0 grams per hour

Efficiency: 78%

The powerhouse built to warm your home - the Equinox.


(broken link removed to http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/wood_stoves/equinox/)

 

[rdrcr56]

Sounds like your inspector is way off base, there's too many stoves installed with the pipe going straight up out of the stove, if he's that un-reasonable, and you know the install is safe, just burn it and fore-go the permit.

 

[bbc557ci]

Sounds like your inspector is way off base, there's too many stoves installed with the pipe going straight up out of the stove, if he's that un-reasonable, and you know the install is safe, just burn it and fore-go the permit.

I agree. If the stove is installed to manufacturers specs, and if it is safe, I'd light it up. Some code officers, especially part timers in small towns, like to act as if they have the power of God himself. You have a big investment $$ wise sitting there plus the potential to save $$ in using your new stove.

Have you checked to see what your state building codes require ? Also, has your local codes guy shown you anything in writing specifying what he is telling you ? Or, has he shown you anything in writing indicating that he/the Town has the legal right to superceed your state codes ?

Best of luck with your situation.

 

[Highbeam]

The inspector does have the final say and is almost god. Without his sign off then you will not be insured if a fire consumed your home. Not cool. The recommendation to ignore the permit is often followed but I feel the risk is too high.

Everybody has a boss. The inspector reports to someone and that someone is who you need to talk to. Perhaps request a third party evaluation from an inspector in a neighboring town? I work for a city and our building inspector can be overuled by the director of his deparment. I have inspectors that work for me whos decisions I can overule.

The best comparison is about adding a liner to a masonry chimney for an insert. Does he expect a cleanout tee at the liner base before hitting the stove?

 

[Flame]

Thanks for the input,
It is true that I will not have insurance coverage if the Inspector does not sign off on the permit. That is why I have been holding out. I will wait to see what happens when he receives the letter form Hearthstone on Monday. I would think that would be good enough. If not I may be forced to get a 90 and a "T" pipe installed where the bottom of the flu pipe meets the stove top. I have been considering to at least do a break in fire against my wife's insistence to wait. I don't know if I can hold out much longer. Luckily I am extremely busy at the moment renovating our home. In the meantime Enchanted Fireside gave me a bottle of wood stove glass cleaner and a Condor stove pipe thermometer free for my troubles. They did not have the probe style but did have the magnetic type with a screw included so it can't fall from you pipe if the magnet fails. I have to say that in the beginning I had to be on them to get moving but they came through in the end and actually had it installed before the set date. I was very impressed with their installer also. We just had our wide pine floors redone (very soft wood) and I watched as he was extremely mindful to insure his feet were clean (every time) and large blankets were put down so nothing was damaged. Unlike the guys who delivered our bed. They spoke no English, never wiped their feet and wound up putting two good dents in our new floor. Today I went looking for an iron trivet to use on the stove top to protect the stone when popping popcorn (one of my favorite treats). I had no luck but the wife found one on the web. Well, back to painting !

 

[DriftWood]

Thanks for the input,
It is true that I will not have insurance coverage if the Inspector does not sign off on the permit.

Don't ask us call your insurance agent ask him "Will I have insurance coverage if the Inspector does not sign off on the permit." Came you guess what they will say if a "problem" is found after a meeting of the red flashers in your front yard.

I would not want piss off the inspector, a open permit will not go away. A open permit can affect home owners selling there home, just do what it takes to get him to sign off and make you wife happy, just wait.

 

[loneeagle15]

you will love your stove and more than enough wood thats more than I have burned this year and have been going 24/7 since mid Oct I like my wood cut at 16" fits through the door better tshn longer lengths

 

[swestall]

ON trivets: I was also concerned with protecting the stone and thought the cast iron might scratch it. Someone here posted an item that identified Woodstock's boot warmers as an alternative. They are basically pieces of soapstone. I bought two sets. I set the steamer on a couple of them and when the stove gets hot the steamer gets it on. And, it is stone on stone. They weren't all that expensive either.
Too bad about your inspector. But, I do agree that he has to report to someone, the Mayor, Director or someone. And, I wonder if the Commonwealth can step in when someone is out of line.

 

[Flame]

Thanks swetsell and JD for the info,
I haven't fired mine up yet so I have been cleaning the glass (since it was used as a display model) and getting some wood inside so it will be ready to roll when this is over with (hopefully Monday). I noticed a little dampness in the back of the stove on the stones. It has been raining a lot so I don't know if that is moisture that came down the flu from the rain or condensation build up from a cold pipe coming in to a warm house. Is this a normal occurrence with a metal pipe ? I poked around inside the firebox to check things out while I was there. I noticed that the baffle is not metal (just the frame) and whatever the baffle is made of it seems to have a bed of insulation laying on top of it. Does anyone know about what that is ? I thought it would just be all metal like my previous Timberline. Lastly (not to sound paranoid now) I thought that the inside of the firebox would be surrounded by firebrick. I was surprised that there is only the soapstone. Is this how it should be ? I know the soapstone is good for all of the heat but I just figured it would still need firebrick around it like a cast iron stove. I am also wondering if that is soapstone that surrounds the ash grate. They feel too smooth to be firebrick. I just want to be sure that nothing was left or taken out when they had it as a display model.
Thanks

 

[jpl1nh]

It's not unusual or a soapstone stove to have moisture in it. A break in fire will drive that out, I think it's a soapstone thing, not a flue pipe issue. The soapstone is its own firebrick so you are all set. Regardless of whether you end up having to T of the flue or not, when you get your permit and learn how to use that beautiful stove, you'll be a happy camper! :coolsmile:

 

[bbc557ci]

The inspector does have the final say and is almost god. Without his sign off then you will not be insured if a fire consumed your home. Not cool. The recommendation to ignore the permit is often followed but I feel the risk is too high.

Everybody has a boss. The inspector reports to someone and that someone is who you need to talk to. Perhaps request a third party evaluation from an inspector in a neighboring town? I work for a city and our building inspector can be overuled by the director of his deparment. I have inspectors that work for me whos decisions I can overule.

The best comparison is about adding a liner to a masonry chimney for an insert. Does he expect a cleanout tee at the liner base before hitting the stove?

You're right Highbeam. He probably should wait on the inspector...... my bad. I had a small GC business for over 20 years and had a couple of run in's with codes people who were not fully informed and or not up to date on current codes, at the time. Most code enforcement people I delt with were pretty good. But there were one or two who needed to get their heads out of their ars's. However, that said, if it were me, if the install is safe and per the manufacture's specs, I'd light'r up. But that's just me ;o)

 

[Highbeam]

I'm waiting for an electrical inspector right now who is very very late.

The inside of the firebox on my heritage is all stone. No firebrick anywhere. The bottom is made up of soapstone and the ash grate. The baffle on top is a ceramic fiber piece that can be broken if you smack it with wood so be careful with it. Some HS stoves have an insulation blanket above the baffle and some don't. Mine doesn't and I like it that way. It sure would be nice if the ceramic baffle could be chucked for a steel plate since then it would be easier to deal with and less risky but the board has an insulative quality that I doubt steel could match.

My stone has sweat if the stove is cold and the fire is new. Lots of moisture is present in the steamyu cold fire which will condense out onto the very cold soapstone. It doesn't sweat just sitting there though as I recall.

 

[Highbeam]

Oh and I did light a little fire before my stove inspection was complete. It was a hot day but I just wanted to see it draft. I thought I could just vacuum the ashes and that nobody would know but the stove stunk real bad inside of the cold fire and if the inspector cared he surely must have known that I snuck in a burn.

 

[swestall]

I guess we are all getting to the same place, right or wrong, just do what the little ---- ------ ------ ----- (fill in your own descriptive adjectives) inspector demands and get your stove going......

That ceramic material is to heat up there where the secondaries are; this material absorbs a lot of heat, provides a barrier and keeps the secondary combustion temps up. I cringe everytime I hit the tubes, but I guess you get use to it; that is until you have to replace a cracked on which I hope is a long way off.

 

[tradergordo]

Hate to say it, but what the inspector wants you to do will actually decrease safety rather than increase safety. You have a straight up flue from what I understand, and he wants you to move the stove forward and add a tee? So instead of best possible draft, which helps a lot in ending up with a nice clean chimney, you will now have subpar draft with a bend and a tee. This inspector doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about.

Having a tee at first glance does seem like a big convenience. But at least for me, it would be worthless, because I'd have to remove the flue from the stove anyway to clean inside the stove (down the flue collar).

 

[TheFlame]

The question on my mind is what to do if the inspector still says no? It's ridiculous to let a government official of any sort have absolute power over anything. What court could hear this case? Or would this be a board of supervisors meeting agenda item?

 

[swestall]

You can sue anyone for anything. But, the Board of Supervisors is most likely a better alternative if they are authorized to hear and decide on this.

 

[Flame]

Thanks guys,
It's great to know that my stove is complete inside. I'll have to watch that ceramic baffle. The Inspector received the letter from Hearthstone today. He agreed that they had a point and "maybe" he has been wrong ("although", he says "I have been doing it this way for 22 years"). He was going to call some official in Boston to find out and call me back. So I am patiently waiting and hoping tomorrow will be the day. I agree with you Tradergordo, any bend just creates more turbulence and a poorer draft. I mentioned that to him from the get go but he brushed that off. I'll let you know when I finally get her going a long with some pics. My Class A pipe goes through a convenient little cubby hole /storage space on the second floor before going through the roof. I do not use this cubby hole anyway and wanted to insulate it. Is it OK to have insulation on the Class A pipe (up against it -like blown in insulation) or should I keep it a distance (space around it) away from the pipe ?
Thanks again !

 

[tradergordo]

My Class A pipe goes through a convenient little cubby hole /storage space on the second floor before going through the roof. I do not use this cubby hole anyway and wanted to insulate it. Is it OK to have insulation on the Class A pipe (up against it -like blown in insulation) or should I keep it a distance (space around it) away from the pipe ?
Thanks again !

From what I understand you are not supposed to insulate class A chimney pipe. In fact they sell (broken link removed)to keep insulation AWAY from the pipe.

It should not be necessary to add anything.

 

[Highbeam]

You need to maintain 2" clearance around that class A pipe. No insulation may be within the 2 inches. No need to over-insulate it either since your situation is very efficient and you will have very good draft. Remember that the class A is an insulated pipe so when you read on this site about people insulating their liners they are trying to be make their naked liner pipes as good as the class A that you already have.

 

[pinewoodburner]

Did the inspector sign off yet?

If so, how is it working?

 

[struggle]

Flame calling Mr Flame.........what has happened so far :question:

 

[Kansasplains]

Here's another comment about trivets, continuing the thought from several posts ago. You can buy a piece of soapstone from Woodstock. Choose SKU: W-282. It's actually a replacement soapstone piece for the Keystone stove that costs about $20. The stove can either be vented out the top, or out the back. If you vent out the back, this is the piece that goes on the top to close off the top hole. It's a square piece that would work perfectly to set on top of your stove to put a tea kettle on it. Hope this helps.

Kansasplains

 

[Flame]

Sorry it has been a while guys. Work has been overwhelming lately. Now I have a lot of catching up to do!
I finally got the Inspector to sign off on it Thanks to Enchanted Fireside working with Hearthstone and my installer John, with Colonial Millworks to guide him out of some old information that he was going by. He admitted that he was wrong and the installation should be done as outlined in the manufactures specifications. He thought my installer did a great job of following the guidelines and even going above and beyond in some areas. It took long enough but boy am I a happy camper now! Every moment I had possible for the first few days, my head was right in front of that stove adjusting this and tweaking that (driving my wife nuts). Thanks to the knowledge from you guys and this forum, "I do believe I have it down for a smooth operation". These Soapstone babies are truly different then my old Cast Iron was and it takes a real mental adjustment to understand that. You just see that flame going and going and the stone is barely hot. But watch out! Once those stones are hot, your worries are over. You have to think of every adjustment that you make to the flame, reacting in slow motion compared to the Cast Iron stoves. I really do love this stove. I can sit two feet away with the lights out and enjoy the show while my whole house stays very comfortable. It's that slow steady constant heat creeping around that does the trick. Then I ended up having to do some long hours at work so I taught the wife how to just put in one fat log if it gets down to nothing but hot coals at the bottom. That way when I come home I am assured that there will be a nice big hot coal waiting for me to re-stoke a long with a good draft. I can't say enough at how important it was to have that flu damper installed. I close that down 1/4 turn when the flu temp gets too high and the stove gets good and hot plus my wood lasts much longer. At night after experimenting I actually turn it half shut with the stove damper completely closed and it just keeps chugging away leaving me beautiful coals for the morning. I discovered in the beginning that my wood is really holding a lot of water. I now stack two loads worth near the stove and that made a world of difference. This stove seems to be a bit more sensitive and reacts strongly to damp wood. It really cools and slows everything down, unlike my Cast Iron was. But that is certainly not a complaint. Below I posted some pictures. I wanted to wait until I had it down and found that "sweet spot" for steady "Cruising Flame". I was amazed at how you get the coals at the bottom, the little flame on the logs and the secondaries up top. Now that is real efficient extraction of BTU's from wood. Now that I have the basics down I can share some time with my wife. But even being with her I still get to watch the stove together - so is that considered cheating?? . I'll read some of your posts tonight. Again thanks so much for all your knowledge and tips that led me to a quick understanding of the operation of this stove. She sure is a beauty.