Hearthstone Regrets

[MAD348]

We did a major reno last year and ended up installing a Hearthstone Morgan wood burning insert. We already had the fireplace/chimney as part of the original house and had the stainless liner and insert installed professionally.
We spray foamed the whole house (approx. 1300 sq ft.) and added insulation to the attic to get R50.
Unfortunately this insert is not cutting it. We are in Ontario and even with this winter being mild it’s rarely over 65 degrees inside with the fireplace going 24/7. Not super happy with the fireplace overall as there are a few design flaws in my opinion but that’s for another topic.
My question is this: are we better off to replace the fireplace with another bigger model or will that still not be enough to keep it warm in here? Not crazy about the idea of ripping the fireplace out and putting a wood stove in but I’m also not keen on spending more money on a set up we aren’t happy with in the end. This insert cost us almost $6000 installed and it sucks that after a year we are looking at replacing it. Thoughts?

 

[shoot-straight]

A super well insulated and air sealed house should be able to to heater with a match- even in Ontario.

I guess just go bigger. I love my blaze king - i would check out the ashford insert, you can run it low and slow.

 

[webby3650]

How’s your wood supply? Are you buying it or cutting it yourself?

 

[weatherguy]

What's your stove top temp when running?

 

[MAD348]

How’s your wood supply? Are you buying it or cutting it yourself?

This wood I bought just to get us through the rest of this winter, have been cutting ash for a couple weeks now for next year.

 

[MAD348]

What's your stove top temp when running?

Will have to check Saturday when I’m back home. There isn’t a thermometer built anywhere on/in it so can I use the Mastercarft digital temperature reader and just point it at the metal?

 

[weatherguy]

Will have to check Saturday when I’m back home. There isn’t a thermometer built anywhere on/in it so can I use the Mastercarft digital temperature reader and just point it at the metal?

yes, we're trying to determine if your wood is dry enough to get a hot burn, the way your house is insulated and even though that stoves small it should easily be heating better than it is. Since you bought the wood this year my guess is no, most times its not the stove but something else that's the problem.

 

[albrown60]

We did a major reno last year and ended up installing a Hearthstone Morgan wood burning insert. We already had the fireplace/chimney as part of the original house and had the stainless liner and insert installed professionally.
We spray foamed the whole house (approx. 1300 sq ft.) and added insulation to the attic to get R50.
Unfortunately this insert is not cutting it. We are in Ontario and even with this winter being mild it’s rarely over 65 degrees inside with the fireplace going 24/7. Not super happy with the fireplace overall as there are a few design flaws in my opinion but that’s for another topic.
My question is this: are we better off to replace the fireplace with another bigger model or will that still not be enough to keep it warm in here? Not crazy about the idea of ripping the fireplace out and putting a wood stove in but I’m also not keen on spending more money on a set up we aren’t happy with in the end. This insert cost us almost $6000 installed and it sucks that after a year we are looking at replacing it. Thoughts?

Is it a 8470 and does it have a blower ?

 

[edyit]

is there a block off plate installed ?

 

[MAD348]

Is it a 8470 and does it have a blower ?

I don’t know if it’s the 8470 and yes the blower is on high.

 

[MAD348]

is there a block off plate installed ?

Not sure what you mean by block off plate.

 

[MAD348]

yes, we're trying to determine if your wood is dry enough to get a hot burn, the way your house is insulated and even though that stoves small it should easily be heating better than it is. Since you bought the wood this year my guess is no, most times its not the stove but something else that's the problem.

I thought the same so I took some wood from my father in law which was cut last winter and it didn’t do much better, maybe a bit.

 

[MAD348]

Not sure what you mean by block off plate.

Just researched it so I know what a block off plate is now bit I don’t know if they put one in. I’ll have to pull the insert out to find out?

 

[Geoff C]

You should be able to slide the surround forward and look back there. I didn’t have one my first winter. The stove would be 600 degrees and the room wouldn’t go up 2 degrees. Installed one that spring and next winter was night and day difference

 

[begreen]

This wood I bought just to get us through the rest of this winter, have been cutting ash for a couple weeks now for next year.

That may be directly related to the low heat issue if the wood is not dry. Bought wood rarely is fully seasoned.
Check to see if there is an insulated damper-sealing block-off plate above the insert. Likely not. Adding one will help increase the heat output of the insert.

 

[Woody Stover]

I second begreen's comments. First, your wood is probably wet. Even your FIL's wood, "cut" a year ago (but maybe not split/stacked?) is probably not very dry either, but was enough for you to see a difference. Hard (Sugar) Maple, Oak or other dense woods are going to take two or three years, split and stacked in the wind, to get dry.
Get soft Maple, Pine, Aspen, or whatever fast-drying woods you have available up there, split and stack NOW, and you might have a good stash of dry wood by fall. Is that Green or Black Ash that you're getting now? Where in Ontario are you? White Ash burns longer, but also takes longer to dry, I'd think.
That 1.7 cu.ft. firebox won't get you a solid overnight burn, especially on the lightweight woods I mentioned, but the output numbers look fair, and your house should hold heat well. That will help you get to the morning without too much temp drop if you burn a load before bedtime, then load up again. As you get further ahead on your dry wood, you can get into the hard Maple and other woods that put out better heat.
Install the block-off plate this summer. Much info on the site about doing this, either in threads or elsewhere..

Make a damper sealing block-off plate

A block-off plate is particularly helpful with inserts installed in fireplace on exterior walls with exterior chimneys. Without one, the flue liner (which should be insulated) and the stove will try to heat the mass of masonry that is exposed to the outdoors. This can result in a...

www.hearth.com

 

[begreen]

1.7 cu ft is about the size of the Castine. With the right wood and loading one can get an overnight burn or at least hot coals for a restart.

 

[MAD348]

So today I took out the baffle and cleaned the entire stove out. While having it all apart I saw that they cut through the metal “heat shield” which was basically an angled piece of steel from the original fireplace to get the stainless liner in. It’s not tightly sealed around the circle of the pipe but sort of hacked through with a sawzall blade in a rough V shape big enough to get liner through. So that will be a warm season project getting it all sealed properly. The wood I bought is definitely wet, some of the pieces I can hear sizzling when I put them in. I spent the rest of the day cutting wood to make sure come next year we have lots of dry wood ready to go. Didn’t get a chance to check temp of stove today but will do that as well.

 

[weatherguy]

Sounds like you're on the right track, dont think its the stove at all, next year should be better for you.

 

[Woody Stover]

I spent the rest of the day cutting wood to make sure come next year we have lots of dry wood ready to go.

Know what specie it was?

 

[MAD348]

I have a friend who’s clearing roughly 2 acres of bush who has given me permission to take whatever I want. Today was a mix of white ash, red oak, walnut and soft maple. I also cut down a Manitoba maple a couple weeks back which will burn fast but also dry fast. Need to get 2 or 3 years worth of wood cut so I am ahead of the game for the next couple years.
On another note the company I purchased the fireplace from said they are willing to give me trade in value for the fireplace and take that off the purchase price if I want to change it. Meeting with the owner next week to talk about potential upgrades. Thinking I may even go wood stove set in the fireplace cavity if I can fit it. Probably cook us out of the living room but too much heat is something I can deal with more than burning wood and oil. Nice to see a business that still cares about customer satisfaction!

 

[Woody Stover]

Today was a mix of white ash, red oak, walnut and soft maple. I also cut down a Manitoba maple a couple weeks back which will burn fast but also dry fast. Need to get 2 or 3 years worth of wood cut so I am ahead of the game for the next couple years.

I read in another thread that Walnut may dry pretty fast, but I have no first-hand experience with it. I'd get as much of the fast-drying, fast-burning wood as I could to set myself up for next winter. White Ash and Oak won't be dry enough over one summer. Hook up with a tree guy and you can probably get all you want of soft Maple, which can be pretty dry by fall.

the company I purchased the fireplace from said they are willing to give me trade in value for the fireplace and take that off the purchase price if I want to change it. Meeting with the owner next week to talk about potential upgrades. Thinking I may even go wood stove set in the fireplace cavity if I can fit it. Probably cook us out of the living room but too much heat is something I can deal with more than burning wood and oil. Nice to see a business that still cares about customer satisfaction!

As others have said, with dry wood your present stove should handle a place with that much weather-proofing done to it.
How far north in Ontario are you? That might be something to consider..
An "upgrade" sounds like more money yet..did he mention any stove makes/models? You want to size the stove to match your heating needs most of the time, but until you get dry wood you won't know what your stove is capable of. Having too big a stove is also a PITA. What else didn't you like about this stove?

 

[ManitobaSky]

Having dry wood will make a world of difference with your current setup. If you are close to a Canadian Tire you could see if they stock canawick blocks they would give you a better idea of what dry wood will do. What are the “design flaws” you mentioned? Those may be more of a reason to look at changing your setup then the heat output.

 

[MAD348]

Few things I don’t like really about this particular stove.
First, very little radiant heat so the fan needs to be running constantly, which sucks because we had a pellet stove for the last 6 winters and the fan noise drove my wife nuts, part of the reason we went to wood.
Second, the fan cover is right below the door by maybe 1/4”, so if you open the door and/or load it and some ash/coals fall out, you can’t close the door without scooping it clean first.
Third, the gasket is located on the stove not the door. So when you scoop up the ashes which fall out you’re constantly agitating the gasket. I had to replace it after last year and it’s loose again now.
Last, the burn box is extremely small. To be fair that one I knew beforehand but went off the sq ft rating as opposed to the size.
I know in our first house we had a wood stove and it was so hot in that room we thought a fireplace would be a good option. But that place was also very segmented whereas our new place is all open concept beside the bedrooms/bathrooms.

 

[MAD348]

I’ve got a moisture content meter at the shop I’ll have to bring home and check the stuff I bought. I’m certain it will produce more heat with drier wood just hard to say what it’s capable of.