Hearthstone Regrets

[begreen]

Few things I don’t like really about this particular stove.
First, very little radiant heat so the fan needs to be running constantly, which sucks because we had a pellet stove for the last 6 winters and the fan noise drove my wife nuts, part of the reason we went to wood.
Second, the fan cover is right below the door by maybe 1/4”, so if you open the door and/or load it and some ash/coals fall out, you can’t close the door without scooping it clean first.
Third, the gasket is located on the stove not the door. So when you scoop up the ashes which fall out you’re constantly agitating the gasket. I had to replace it after last year and it’s loose again now.
Last, the burn box is extremely small. To be fair that one I knew beforehand but went off the sq ft rating as opposed to the size.
I know in our first house we had a wood stove and it was so hot in that room we thought a fireplace would be a good option. But that place was also very segmented whereas our new place is all open concept beside the bedrooms/bathrooms.

It doesn't sound like there is anything wrong with the stove, though I agree that I like the gasket to be on the door. Have you tried using RTV to adhere the gasket? Flush inserts will be more dependent on the blower. With dry wood and a block-off plate, the insert will heat much better, but that will not change the 1.7 cu ft firebox size. Sounds like the Clydesdale or larger insert would have been a better fit from the beginning.

 

[MAD348]

It doesn't sound like there is anything wrong with the stove, though I agree that I like the gasket to be on the door. Have you tried using RTV to adhere the gasket? Flush inserts will be more dependent on the blower. With dry wood and a block-off plate, the insert will heat much better, but that will not change the 1.7 cu ft firebox size. Sounds like the Clydesdale or larger insert would have been a better fit from the beginning.

I used the gasket adhesive which came with the gasket from the dealer to replace it, not sure if RTV will work better but I’ll give it a shot as this didn’t work.
Most of the stuff we don’t like about the stove has more to do with being annoyed than not working. A bigger one would definitely have been the way to go as now I’m not sure if we want a bigger fireplace or a stove instead.

 

[begreen]

Rutland now sells black RTV gasket cement, but most black or red RTV will work. Close the door and let it set up for 24 hrs.

 

[BKVP]

Make certain you have the mfg's minimum chimney length as well.

Dry wood, sufficient draft to pull in enough air to burn hot = happy customer.

 

[Woody Stover]

It doesn't sound like there is anything wrong with the stove, though I agree that I like the gasket to be on the door. Have you tried using RTV to adhere the gasket?

Have you seen stoves that use RTV in that instance? It might work on the stove body, but it gets a lot hotter than the door-frame gasket which is shielded by the stove body. That said, I've seen RTV at the auto parts store that's rated for 850 intermittent so it might hold. I've also seen 1000 degree stuff at a stove shop, but it's a specialty item and you have to buy a big caulk tube, I think.

A bigger one would definitely have been the way to go as now I’m not sure if we want a bigger fireplace or a stove instead.

What do you mean, "a bigger fireplace"...a bigger "fireplace insert?"
If you stuff a free-standing stove into a masonry fireplace, you'll need that block-off plate for sure. If the (masonry?) chimney is on an outside wall, it will also help to insulate the fireplace to keep the bricks from conducting radiant heat off the stove, out into the vastness of space. I have such a fireplace..at least I have the rear heat shield for the stove, so that's helping some.
A free-standing stove that leans more toward convective heat (it heats air) would be better in a fireplace than a more radiant stove (heats objects.)
I don't like blower noise either, but a blower will help. You just have to do your research and find a brand that has quiet blowers and run them on low.
But here again, we've come full circle, back to the ultra-insulated house. You should be able to easily heat that open layout with a stove, without a blower. You have no idea where you presently stand, until you get some dry wood to try, or some of the compressed-chip bricks from a farm store or the like.
You still haven't told us how arctic the tundra is where you live. Maybe you're in a government witness-protection program, and loathe to reveal your location?

 

[begreen]

Have you seen stoves that use RTV in that instance? It might work on the stove body, but it gets a lot hotter than the door-frame gasket which is shielded by the stove body. That said, I've seen RTV at the auto parts store that's rated for 850 intermittent so it might hold. I've also seen 1000 degree stuff at a stove shop, but it's a specialty item and you have to buy a big caulk tube, I think.

Copper RTV is pretty high temp, 700º I think.

 

[MAD348]

Lol definitely not just forgot about that part. I’m in Niagara so further south than north.

By bigger fireplace I meant an insert with a bigger firebox. This one is only 1.7 cubic feet so difficult to load it up especially for overnight.

I don’t know if it was the cleaning or if we got to a different part of the wood I bought but today we have some serious heat coming out. It’s 72 inside and for the first time this winter my wife said it was warm in our house. The stove temperature is running around 450 and for the moment all is well.

 

[MAD348]

Our fireplace wall backs onto the garage so we do lose some heat out the back I’m sure.

Depending on price we may look at keeping with an insert and upsizing to a fireplace with a bigger burn box. I was at my in-laws today who have a monstrous wood stove in their living room and it was so hot I couldn’t sit in the room, don’t want that either. Any recommendations on inserts with at least a 2.5 cu ft burn box and a very quiet blower?

 

[begreen]

Any recommendations on inserts with at least a 2.5 cu ft burn box and a very quiet blower?

Just to clarify, do you mean an insert to go into a masonry fireplace to replace the Morgan or a Zero Clearance fireplace of about 2.5 cu ft in size?

 

[albrown60]

I don’t know if it’s the 8470 and yes the blower is on high.

If it is a 8470, the specs calls for 40,000 btu which sound low if you want to heat 1300s.f.

Hearthstone 8470 Morgan | The Fireplace King, Huntsville, Ontario, Muskoka – For Your Heating, Cooling and Grilling Needs | The Fireplace King, Huntsville, Ontario, Muskoka - For Your Heating, Cooling and Grilling Needs

The Morgan fireplace wood-fired insert produces a combination of both power and beauty. The 1.7 cubic foot firebox produces 40,000 BTUs of heat and can heat up to 1,200 square feet. The thick soapstone panels that line the inside of the firebox gives the Morgan the thermal mass that separate...

fireplaceking.com

 

[albrown60]

Our fireplace wall backs onto the garage so we do lose some heat out the back I’m sure.

Depending on price we may look at keeping with an insert and upsizing to a fireplace with a bigger burn box. I was at my in-laws today who have a monstrous wood stove in their living room and it was so hot I couldn’t sit in the room, don’t want that either. Any recommendations on inserts with at least a 2.5 cu ft burn box and a very quiet blower?

You are in Ontario I am in Quebec, pretty much same kind of weather. I am on my second Regency I2400 medium size insert with blower. It produce 75,000 btu as per specs. The blower has two speeds and is quiet. I am in the 7th season and it is really efficent. My house has 1600 s.f. on two floor and stay warm all winter with the Regency pumping heat 24/7. It is a good insert made in Canada and life warranty.

 

[Woody Stover]

Lol definitely not just forgot about that part. I’m in Niagara so further south than north.
I meant an insert with a bigger firebox. This one is only 1.7 cubic feet so difficult to load it up especially for overnight.
I don’t know if it was the cleaning or if we got to a different part of the wood I bought but today we have some serious heat coming out. It’s 72 inside and for the first time this winter my wife said it was warm in our house. The stove temperature is running around 450 and for the moment all is well.

OK, so not the extreme low temps they see consistently, further north in ON.
With dry wood, and dense species with higher BTU if you can get 'em, you'll be able to cut the air lower and your stove will hold an overnight fire better. I only have a 1.4 cu.ft. firebox, and get overnight burns easily unless it's single digits and windy, where this house loses more heat due to poor insulation and some air leaks which I haven't fixed yet. It's a cat stove, though, and it can stretch the burns out longer..
I understand that the guy's offer to let you trade up is tempting, and there are other things about the stove you don't like. It sounds like you are leaning that way. What brands does that shop carry?

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Our fireplace wall backs onto the garage so we do lose some heat out the back I’m sure.

Depending on price we may look at keeping with an insert and upsizing to a fireplace with a bigger burn box. I was at my in-laws today who have a monstrous wood stove in their living room and it was so hot I couldn’t sit in the room, don’t want that either. Any recommendations on inserts with at least a 2.5 cu ft burn box and a very quiet blower?

Are Enviro inserts allowed to be installed in your area? We own a Kodiak 1700 with a 2.5 cubic foot box and very quiet blower. The Boston is the most beautiful, but none of the Enviro inserts is 2020 compliant.

 

[Woody Stover]

If it is a 8470, the specs calls for 40,000 btu which sound low if you want to heat 1300s.f.

EPA numbers say it puts out a little more max heat than my Dutchwest backup stove does, and that stove struggles to keep up here if it gets cold and windy. Milder climate here, but way leakier and under-insulated house compared to what he has.
One of his main desires is for a bigger firebox, but I bet his present stove has a fighting chance with dry, higher-BTU wood, which I think he has in southern ON...Sugar Maple and maybe Oak.
His noisy-blower complaint is another factor. I don't like blower noise either, I have it with the Dutchwest if it's cold and windy out, and I need the blower to keep up. With a bigger box, free-standing stove, no blower needed. An insert would still have a blower, but if he could hear it at the dealer, he'd know if he could handle the noise.

 

[Woody Stover]

I was at my in-laws today who have a monstrous wood stove in their living room and it was so hot I couldn’t sit in the room, don’t want that either.

That's where it becomes a balancing act, especially with a non-cat stove which doesn't have the ability to burn at low output like a cat stove would, yet still burn clean. Your only recourse to moderate output is to burn a smaller load, then it's like you are burning a stove with a smaller firebox anyway, and the overnight burn will be about the same.

 

[MAD348]

Just to clarify, do you mean an insert to go into a masonry fireplace to replace the Morgan or a Zero Clearance fireplace of about 2.5 cu ft in size?

Yes insert to replace the Morgan

 

[MAD348]

I have a meeting with the owner where I purchased the insert this week so I’ll see what he has to offer. Thank you all for your advice and expertise, much appreciated.

 

[MAD348]

Are Enviro inserts allowed to be installed in your area? We own a Kodiak 1700 with a 2.5 cubic foot box and very quiet blower. The Boston is the most beautiful, but none of the Enviro inserts is 2020 compliant.

I don’t know that’s something I’ll have to ask the dealer about.

 

[MAD348]

OK, so not the extreme low temps they see consistently, further north in ON.
With dry wood, and dense species with higher BTU if you can get 'em, you'll be able to cut the air lower and your stove will hold an overnight fire better. I only have a 1.4 cu.ft. firebox, and get overnight burns easily unless it's single digits and windy, where this house loses more heat due to poor insulation and some air leaks which I haven't fixed yet. It's a cat stove, though, and it can stretch the burns out longer..
I understand that the guy's offer to let you trade up is tempting, and there are other things about the stove you don't like. It sounds like you are leaning that way. What brands does that shop carry?

From the website they list Lopi Hearthstone Regency and Enerzone as their wood burning insert suppliers.

 

[Woody Stover]

From the website they list Lopi Hearthstone Regency and Enerzone as their wood burning insert suppliers.

I think that both Lopi and Regency have made hybrid (secondary + cat) stoves for a few years..not sure if Hearthstone just jumped into the game recently. The Enerzones don't appear to be hybrids, so maybe they have a higher burn rate in order to meet the 2020 regs? I'm not sure.. I would lean toward Regency or Lopi based on their reputations for quality, but I don't know much about their recent stoves. One thing I'd look at would be how well the cat is protected from flame damage. If they have stoves burning at the shop, maybe you can tell how much you can turn the stoves down. Not roasting myself out and not having to resort to small loads would be a main goal of mine in your efficient home.

 

[webby3650]

Enerzone might be off the list, SBI pulled out of their agreement with the United Buyers Group, which the enzerzone was branded for. I’m sure there’s a few still floating around though. It’s not an impressive unit..
The Hearthstone Clydesdale would be a step up, but it will have the same frustrating ashlip problems you already are experiencing. I don’t know why they didn’t leave more room between lip and the door?

 

[webby3650]

Maybe “Hearthstone regrets” could be a new topic, like a performance thread for Hearthstone owners.

 

[begreen]

Yes insert to replace the Morgan

If it will fit, look at 3 cu ft. fireplaces. Do you know your fireplace dimensions including depth (top and bottom)?

Are you sticking with a flush insert or would one that projects further out onto the hearth be ok? This might mean adding a hearth extension, but more radiant heat and better convection too.

 

[begreen]

Maybe “Hearthstone regrets” could be a new topic, like a performance thread for Hearthstone owners.

It probably should be small insert regrets.

 

[Woody Stover]

If it will fit, look at 3 cu ft. fireplaces. Do you know your fireplace dimensions including depth (top and bottom)?
Are you sticking with a flush insert or would one that projects further out onto the hearth be ok? This might mean adding a hearth extension, but more radiant heat and better convection too.

Hard to believe that a 2.3 box wouldn't suffice, given his level of insulation and air-sealedness.
Yeah, I saw that, Regency has a couple that project from the plane of the fireplace opening quite a ways..great if his location is subject to power outages.