Pete Zahria
Minister of Fire
Not if you enjoy it......
You can get a burger at McDonald's for a buck.
Are you stupid to pay 5X that at Five Guys?
It just depends on what you enjoy and are willing to pay for that enjoyment..
Dan
Heating Oil prices put Pellets on back burner.
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You can get a burger at McDonald's for a buck.
Are you stupid to pay 5X that at Five Guys?
It just depends on what you enjoy and are willing to pay for that enjoyment..
Dan
Go with what is the cheapest. That is just common sense. However I would hold onto your pellet stove and a stash of pellets because the oil market is always very unstable. I went the pellet route to save some money and reduce time consuming wood processing. So far I'm winning and happy BUT if pellet prices continue to climb and get ridiculous I guarantee you I'll be busting wood again. In fact, I still do occasionally. Not because I have to be a wood slave to stay warm. Forced labor is not much fun IMO. Yes, ultimately I can heat a lot cheaper with wood but presently it is not feasible time wise. Time is money too.
You can still enjoy your fire using oil when you want. just throw a bag of pellets in. This will save some oil for a minute too. I really don't give a rats butt about how who stays warm. That's everyone's personal choice but paying more to do so makes absolutely zero sense to me. If I had an oil burning furnace and it was cheaper than pellets you can bet I'd be heating with oil this year. Question is: How long will that last. Don't put your eggs all in one basket.
You can still enjoy your fire using oil when you want. just throw a bag of pellets in. This will save some oil for a minute too. I really don't give a rats butt about how who stays warm. That's everyone's personal choice but paying more to do so makes absolutely zero sense to me. If I had an oil burning furnace and it was cheaper than pellets you can bet I'd be heating with oil this year. Question is: How long will that last. Don't put your eggs all in one basket.
English BoB
Minister of Fire
I haven't called around, but this place was cheapest for me in the past:
http://kokosaoil.com/
And yes, 2.68.
http://kokosaoil.com/
And yes, 2.68.
Tonyray
Minister of Fire
but paying more to do so makes absolutely zero sense to me.
2 guys from the same neighborhood have a 1 hour commute to the city for work..[2 hr round trip].
guy 1 buys a new 20,000.00 Honda Accord For his commute.
guy 2 buys a 75.000 Lincoln SUV...for his commute...
Is guy 2 a fool? maybe, but if he can afford the more luxurious car, why should he go for the cheaper car just because it costs less.? Price isn't always the most important reason.
Oil may be cheaper now but like many here, I don't mind spending a bit more [maybe] for pellet heat..
I like the concept of burning pellets all winter in our house and the constant heat as opposed to our hot water baseboard getting hot, then cooling down, then getting hot, cool down, rinse/lather/repeat...... my 2cents.
on a different note, now that HD is selling the're Ashy pellets for 269.00 , would love to see people buy from local dealers and get better pellets for a few bucks more now that Home Depot has hit the 270.00 ton range.
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looks like any where from $2.55 to $3.05
http://www.midatlanticoil.com/dealers/new-york/albany-rennsselaer/default
dropping pennies here now instead of nickels
A warm Winter will really be icing on the strained pocketbook relief.
Tony,
I agree, but some (most) are strictly into pellet stoves for a cheaper heating option. I am not one of them because I pay for pellets as a trade off instead of processing wood. It's worth it and I like my pellet stoves a bunch thus far. Well, I am though at the same time because I like inexpensive comfy warmth but the ambiance and pellet toting etc; does have it's limits when there are less expensive options. How much is that sight of a fire and a little added warmth really worth. Not to mention the small hassles we endure for it.
When pellets become $400 per ton how many do you think will look into other ways to heat? Or even $325 plus. Pretty many I'd say. I could spend less and stay very warm but choose to do pellets with some money layout for ease, time and labor savings, and simplicity and it works for me presently. Now IF pellet costs keep climbing there is a trade off point for everyone. I ran a lot of numbers to see what my savings might be or what the cost to heat with pellets would be before I bought one. I am confident most others do also. The fire and added warmth are a bonus but then again there are other sacrifices we make for that. If I could heat my home for a lot less looking at the fire becomes less appealing.
I think some above are at this point and it makes sense to switch even if it is short lived. I really like my pellet stove and the constant fire but when it turns into a bigger money hassle then just like the expensive SUV commute it will begin to stop making sense. The processing of firewood will become less work for the trade off. Are wealthy people running out and buying pellets stoves for fun and ambiance? Doubt it. They are happy to pay their high energy bills because it is a drop in the bucket and not worry about scoring good deals on pellets and the joys of cleaning stoves and toting 40 pounders. They let their money do the work.
Bottom Line: My pellet stoves and wood burning units are here to stay. Both types and all of them. They cost me nothing sitting in idle but can become, in a sense, priceless at times when needed or the bank account steers me to them. Last year I went numerous rounds with the wood burners here. I will always have the capability to heat with wood but for now pellets are the way to go for me. Much easier all the way around but that small luxury costs money and there are trade offs like cleaning which is minimal comparatively speaking doing wood. But you have other messes with wood too. I like pellet stoves and burning 40 pounders in many ways but IF all I had to do was process wood for the season and time was aplenty I'd likely do that and save the cash layout for 7 tons.
Another thing I learned last heating season was that my P68 can do the entire house or areas it needs to do well without any issues but for long super cold snaps I will fire up the WoodMaster and give the pellet stoves a break and save some tonnage. I'm talking about consistent temps with highs in the 20's and lows in the teens or single digits which were numerous last winter. This depends if I have the seasoned wood stocked and I do. So spending more doesn't make sense at times. But at times it does just like laying out Harman cash vs. less costly units that also heat but require more TLC and cleaning. Not to mention dependability.
All that said, and everything considered switching from wood to pellets made perfect sense for me although I do spend more for the heat vs. wood. I will also repeat that when it is all about cost saving then spending more makes zero sense. IF pellet costs keep climbing there is a point where heating that way will make zero sense. We are not there yet but many are taking note.
I agree, but some (most) are strictly into pellet stoves for a cheaper heating option. I am not one of them because I pay for pellets as a trade off instead of processing wood. It's worth it and I like my pellet stoves a bunch thus far. Well, I am though at the same time because I like inexpensive comfy warmth but the ambiance and pellet toting etc; does have it's limits when there are less expensive options. How much is that sight of a fire and a little added warmth really worth. Not to mention the small hassles we endure for it.
When pellets become $400 per ton how many do you think will look into other ways to heat? Or even $325 plus. Pretty many I'd say. I could spend less and stay very warm but choose to do pellets with some money layout for ease, time and labor savings, and simplicity and it works for me presently. Now IF pellet costs keep climbing there is a trade off point for everyone. I ran a lot of numbers to see what my savings might be or what the cost to heat with pellets would be before I bought one. I am confident most others do also. The fire and added warmth are a bonus but then again there are other sacrifices we make for that. If I could heat my home for a lot less looking at the fire becomes less appealing.
I think some above are at this point and it makes sense to switch even if it is short lived. I really like my pellet stove and the constant fire but when it turns into a bigger money hassle then just like the expensive SUV commute it will begin to stop making sense. The processing of firewood will become less work for the trade off. Are wealthy people running out and buying pellets stoves for fun and ambiance? Doubt it. They are happy to pay their high energy bills because it is a drop in the bucket and not worry about scoring good deals on pellets and the joys of cleaning stoves and toting 40 pounders. They let their money do the work.
Bottom Line: My pellet stoves and wood burning units are here to stay. Both types and all of them. They cost me nothing sitting in idle but can become, in a sense, priceless at times when needed or the bank account steers me to them. Last year I went numerous rounds with the wood burners here. I will always have the capability to heat with wood but for now pellets are the way to go for me. Much easier all the way around but that small luxury costs money and there are trade offs like cleaning which is minimal comparatively speaking doing wood. But you have other messes with wood too. I like pellet stoves and burning 40 pounders in many ways but IF all I had to do was process wood for the season and time was aplenty I'd likely do that and save the cash layout for 7 tons.
Another thing I learned last heating season was that my P68 can do the entire house or areas it needs to do well without any issues but for long super cold snaps I will fire up the WoodMaster and give the pellet stoves a break and save some tonnage. I'm talking about consistent temps with highs in the 20's and lows in the teens or single digits which were numerous last winter. This depends if I have the seasoned wood stocked and I do. So spending more doesn't make sense at times. But at times it does just like laying out Harman cash vs. less costly units that also heat but require more TLC and cleaning. Not to mention dependability.
All that said, and everything considered switching from wood to pellets made perfect sense for me although I do spend more for the heat vs. wood. I will also repeat that when it is all about cost saving then spending more makes zero sense. IF pellet costs keep climbing there is a point where heating that way will make zero sense. We are not there yet but many are taking note.
A lot of folks have poorly installed central heating systems so they are willing to pay extra to heat with pellets as its more comfortable. Ive spent years fine tuning my my central heating system from moving vents modifying airflow to make it the most comfortable and silent as possible. It blows the pants off my pellet stove now in terms of comfort and cost. Most folks are not willing to do that though and most heating/cooling contractors suck.
Yes they do. Most want the quick and dirty in and out fast cash deals and workmanship is a joke. Not every single one but many are flat out hacks. Or the novice jokers they send out for service calls are.
Moey,
Doing what you've done is very time consuming. I still use my central HVAC system while my pellet stove runs just in fan only mode to distribute air better and more evenly throughout the house. I also use ceiling and box fans. I was surprise with what I was able to do with one pellet stove. I mainly bought it for the shoulder seasons (beginning & end of season) to save some firewood. much to my surprise it was the ONLY heat source I used all winter except for one week with the WoodMaster just to use it and exercise it.
I'm sold on pellet stoves just a bit hacked about pellet price increases this year suddenly.
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Tonyray
Minister of Fire
Interesting thoughts....
I don't know at what price point I would stop burning pellets full time....
may end up alternating pellets and oil maybe...
have to see where this goes in terms of low oil and higher pellet prices. Oil my jump back up to astonomical prices within a year or 2...
but good reading anyways....
To see my wife smile after coming home from a day's work to a warm house w/ the pellet stove running, or to me after being outside shoveling for what seemed like the millionth time this winter, it was worth it at $340/ton.
Heck, we may just turn up the furnace some, dump some sand in the living room, fill up the tub, and pretend we're in the Caribbean this winter.
Warm is warm. Not a burger. Use what is the most economical and keeps ya warm This isn't religion, it is heating your house. I don't have access to gas or oil for heat so it is non-issue here, damn it! I would be heating this barn with oil or gas if it was cheaper and go back to the solid fuel when warranted.
$1.946 for 2# fuel oil in Columbia to Orange counties. I got my fill up for $2.099. Should have waited.
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Pete Zahria
Minister of Fire
You make it sound like it's mandatory to use whatever is cheapest.
If that works for you, that's perfectly fine. It's what works for you.
I only have X amount of time left on this planet.
I'm doing what I enjoy.
Like the Five Guys burgers...... instead of McDonalds..
And pellets in my garage just to keep my truck and bike happy.
Dan
Five Guys burgers are great and I go there often. As I've stated I am going to continue with pellet heat because it still makes sense and it is a great way for some very good relatively inexpensive home heat that can be very nice and enjoyable. All cleaning hassles and 40 pounder toting aside. That is just part of the deal.
Now when that Five Guy burger starts to cost too much for what you get I'd have to look into other chow options. Same holds true for pellets here. Last fall I bought two pellet stoves and all the goods needed for hook up so I do take my pellet heating serious and like it. I invested somewhere in the tune of $7 grand all said and done for one new P68 and a used PC45 with all the pipe, thimbles, UPC's, etc;. Just the hardware and not including any pellet costs. That is doing the installs myself. I am still quite happy I made the move. Believe me I am.
The point I am getting at is very much along the lines of what Bro Bart stated. All prejudices, favoritism, and love aside the simple bottom line is the fact it is heating ones home economically. There is no one here that loves their pellet stoves and heat from them that damn much when pellet prices become ridiculous. That's about the same time a Five Guys burger shrinks in size and starts to cost closer to $20 with soda and fries. When throwing out that type of cash for chow why wouldn't people consider crab legs or a filet nicely done. Just an analogy in a sense.
I'll put it to you this way. You'd have to insanely love that burger and hate crab legs or a tender filet etc; to chose one over the other at that point. Home heating fuels are like airfare prices. They both get you from point A to point B. Everyone shops for the best deal there. Who is going to pay $40 bucks less to fly on a rickety commuter when First class Delta tics are in the same ball park? Not me.
I get what you all are saying that if you like and enjoy something it is worth the extra effort and costs. Better yet lets change the rickety commuter flight to ridding a bus to save $40 vs. a first class non stop flight.There is a point where the bus ride becomes ridiculous self inflicted punishment.
Let's be honest. Everyone here purchased a pellet stove to save money heating their homes mainly. Plus the simplicity of the bags vs. processing wood or crying every time they cut a check for propane, oil, natural gas, electric, etc; What happens when the savings ends up costing you a good percentage more plus all the hassles vs. flipping a stat switch?
Pellet costs are not there yet but close in this debate of home heating oil. I have zero confidence oil will remain this low very long and IMO it would be silly for someone to invest in a new oil fired system to capitalize on this temporarily low price of oil. That is a losing proposition. But for the folks that already have those oil fired systems sitting in their basements it makes a lot of sense to save money vs. paying more for pellets.
Just sayin'.... And for the diehards I have a $20,000 car I'd be more than happy to sell to you for $27,500 because you love the color of it so much. It's a set of wheels that gets you from point A to B but you are so thrilled with the color the extra $7,500 one pays over its worth doesn't matter because you love it that much. That doesn't make sense does it? I'm not trying to be a dick here only a realist pointing out what logically makes sense as others waffling between the cost of pellet heat vs. the costs of cheap oil for now.
Another clarification is about sticking it to big business oil co.'s. What's the difference between them and pellet manufacturers and suppliers practicing the same gouging principles. Either way the poor sap trying to stay warm pays.......
Now when that Five Guy burger starts to cost too much for what you get I'd have to look into other chow options. Same holds true for pellets here. Last fall I bought two pellet stoves and all the goods needed for hook up so I do take my pellet heating serious and like it. I invested somewhere in the tune of $7 grand all said and done for one new P68 and a used PC45 with all the pipe, thimbles, UPC's, etc;. Just the hardware and not including any pellet costs. That is doing the installs myself. I am still quite happy I made the move. Believe me I am.
The point I am getting at is very much along the lines of what Bro Bart stated. All prejudices, favoritism, and love aside the simple bottom line is the fact it is heating ones home economically. There is no one here that loves their pellet stoves and heat from them that damn much when pellet prices become ridiculous. That's about the same time a Five Guys burger shrinks in size and starts to cost closer to $20 with soda and fries. When throwing out that type of cash for chow why wouldn't people consider crab legs or a filet nicely done. Just an analogy in a sense.
I'll put it to you this way. You'd have to insanely love that burger and hate crab legs or a tender filet etc; to chose one over the other at that point. Home heating fuels are like airfare prices. They both get you from point A to point B. Everyone shops for the best deal there. Who is going to pay $40 bucks less to fly on a rickety commuter when First class Delta tics are in the same ball park? Not me.
I get what you all are saying that if you like and enjoy something it is worth the extra effort and costs. Better yet lets change the rickety commuter flight to ridding a bus to save $40 vs. a first class non stop flight.There is a point where the bus ride becomes ridiculous self inflicted punishment.
Let's be honest. Everyone here purchased a pellet stove to save money heating their homes mainly. Plus the simplicity of the bags vs. processing wood or crying every time they cut a check for propane, oil, natural gas, electric, etc; What happens when the savings ends up costing you a good percentage more plus all the hassles vs. flipping a stat switch?
Pellet costs are not there yet but close in this debate of home heating oil. I have zero confidence oil will remain this low very long and IMO it would be silly for someone to invest in a new oil fired system to capitalize on this temporarily low price of oil. That is a losing proposition. But for the folks that already have those oil fired systems sitting in their basements it makes a lot of sense to save money vs. paying more for pellets.
Just sayin'.... And for the diehards I have a $20,000 car I'd be more than happy to sell to you for $27,500 because you love the color of it so much.
It's a set of wheels that gets you from point A to B but you are so thrilled with the color the extra $7,500 one pays over its worth doesn't matter because you love it that much. That doesn't make sense does it? I'm not trying to be a dick here only a realist pointing out what logically makes sense as others waffling between the cost of pellet heat vs. the costs of cheap oil for now.Another clarification is about sticking it to big business oil co.'s. What's the difference between them and pellet manufacturers and suppliers practicing the same gouging principles. Either way the poor sap trying to stay warm pays.......
Pete Zahria
Minister of Fire
Me too. And I Iive 2000' from a BK, and McD's.... 7 miles to 5G's.....
Do I go to McD's or BK... yes... occasionally.
So the answer "I" am trying to put across, is that you can do both...
If that is what you want to do.... If the burger goes to 10 bucks, I would go less.
For sure..
Just like some people buy 3 tons of Supremes for $249,
and 2 or 3 Douglas Fir for $419...
Others don't bat an eye on all Douglas Fir.
.... And for the diehards I have a $20,000 car I'd be more than happy to sell to you for $27,500 because you love the color of it so much.
I have a mint Corvette. It stays in the garage all winter (heated with pellets). Put maybe 1-1500 miles per year.
My wife's 2000 Chrysler gets us to the same places as the Corvette... And.. in the winter..
Does that make any sense? Of course it doesn't.... but I love that car...
Been a car guy all my life... never got the one I wanted until I had grandkids..
To me, life is more than just strict economics.
Especially when you get older!
Dan
Yes, Sir! I agree completely. I am a big car, truck, bike guy myself and have a garage puppy used on nice days or special occasions, etc; Also three bikes in the stables and two big 4 X 4 diesel trucks but tool around mostly in an '01 Honda Civic because it is cheap and makes sense. LOL! I like them all. Especially the easy to drive and park Civic getting 38 - 41 MPGs all day everyday in any driving conditions. I bought it as a cheap fuel alternative too. $35 fill up lasting two weeks beats the hell out of $120 - $130 diesel fill ups every week.
But I'll be damned if I sell any of them to fund my pellet habit. I'm off a few days now so I might take my daughter to get a real burger at the Guys. Ya talked me into it! In the Honda, of course.....
Net change here in oil price since last analysis posted: .05 cents cheaper. Net change in pellets / ton: $20.00 less due to bulk buy. Space heating w/ pellets = 5 degrees warmer in main living area. Pellets still win & viable here as a primary source of heat. OAK is installed, working on register louvers for duct work now.
English BoB
Minister of Fire
Then I will be over to pick up all that wood.....say this weekend ?????? around 8.00am LOL
Most folks consider heat nothing more then a commodity they will consume the cheapest source they have available to them.
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