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sheepdog000

New Member
Hearth Supporter
Dec 7, 2010
104
Midwest
Howdy, Newby reporting in here. I am looking to get a woodburner for my home. There are so many choices, it blows my mind. I figure, I'd give a few specs and get some advice from the resident experts. Would waiting until summer be cheaper? Old models, install options, ect....
I live in Mid-Michigan, in a 1000 sq. ft. "A Frame" ranch, my pitch is not steep as I can walk on my roof just fine. I plan on putting the stove in my basement near a poured concrete wall (approx. middle of house) and piping up and out from the basement. I have no problem cutting some holes in the wood floor to add vents for heat transfer to the main floor if need be. I don't need anything pretty, all black is just fine. I am looking at having a great heat source as an alternative to the natural gas furnace. Plus, power outages, ect... we won't freeze.

Any help or guidance that anyone may provide will be greatly appreciated. This website is a wealth of knowledge.
 
Welcome! Do some reading here. You'll find some themes, a few which come to mind...

Wood before stove - Get your wood supply before your stove. What the woodguy sells as "seasoned" often is really not ready to burn.

Put your stove where the people are. If your woodstove is in an unfinished/uninsulated basement you'll be expending most of your energy heating the ground outside your house. Plus, it makes a great addition to your decor.

Vents in the floor can be a fire code problem. Often the same results can be achieved with a few strategically located fans.

Good luck!
 
agartner said:
Welcome! Do some reading here. You'll find some themes, a few which come to mind...

If your woodstove is in an unfinished/uninsulated basement you'll be expending most of your energy heating the ground outside your house.

+1 on that! you may want to insulate the walls in your basement and you'll do your house a favour. You don't need to put studs now to insulate. There are material designed specifically for concrete walls that comes in a roll with a vapour barrier attached. Just nail it to to wall and it is reasonably priced.

I cover a lot of Michigan and if you want a wood stove at a reasonable price, try Family Farm & Home if there is one near you. They seem to have very competitive pricing. There are some internet re-sellers with good pricing as well and please pay a visit to your local Hearth Dealer. They may surprise you with a good deal at this time of the year and can offer installation tips.

On the issue of putting register in the floor to let heat between floors. I have seen comments that this is not up to code but this must be a local requirement as I have never seen this in writing. The Mennonites & Amish would freeze if that were the case! What would be the difference between a stove near a stair case and an open vent between floors?
 
Welcome to the forum sheepdog000.

Remember first that going cheap is not always the best choice and remember that there will be a very hot fire inside that metal box.

On heating from the basement, some do it. Some like it and some don't. The basement does need to be insulated else all that concrete will soak up most of the heat. Do you really want to heat the concrete or would you rather heat the air? I agree that some codes do not allow the floor registers any longer and probably rightly so.

But to me the worst problem with heating from the basement is that most of the time nobody is near the stove to both enjoy the heat and also to watch the thing. And every time the stove needs wood someone has to climb down the stair to load the wood. This also brings up the question as to how the wood will get down there in the first place? It can be a lot more work with the stove in the basement.

Another that has been brought up already but can't be stressed enough, wood is not like gas or oil. It needs time to dry properly and that usually means a minimum of a year and up to 3 years for oak.

I hope this works out for you and wish you luck.
 
sheepdog000 said:
Howdy, Newby reporting in here. Welcome to the forum. I am looking to get a woodburner for my home. There are so many choices, it blows my mind. I figure, I'd give a few specs and get some advice from the resident experts. Would waiting until summer be cheaper? Old models, install options, ect.... Probably not . . . it seems as though the prices don't move a whole lot . . . I mean you might get a little bit off the price . . . as for models . . . woodstoves aren't like cars . . . once a model is built it pretty much is the same from year to year. I suppose the one thing you might get is a deal if the dealer has too many of one type of stove and they need to buy X number of stoves each year per their agreement with the stove supplier (but I'm not sure if dealers are required to buy X number each year like many dealerships -- i.e. Ski doo, Polaris, etc.)I live in Mid-Michigan, in a 1000 sq. ft. "A Frame" ranch, my pitch is not steep as I can walk on my roof just fine. I plan on putting the stove in my basement near a poured concrete wall (approx. middle of house) and piping up and out from the basement. Hmmm . . . it may work and it may not . . . some folks report that they have done so and it works fine . . . others have said a lot of the heat is lost to the cement . . . best bet if you cannot have the stove in the room where you spend most of your time is to make sure you insulate the basement. I have no problem cutting some holes in the wood floor to add vents for heat transfer to the main floor if need be. I don't need anything pretty, all black is just fine. I thought so too . . . except now Shari reminds me every chance she gets that she has a great looking blue-black Oslo and I have a matte black . . . of course I still love my stove .. . even if it isn't quite as pretty as Shari's stove. I am looking at having a great heat source as an alternative to the natural gas furnace. Plus, power outages, ect... we won't freeze. Hehheh . . . I thought the same way as you . . . once upon a time . . . figured I would just run it weekends and evenings to save money . . . and I could use it for power outages . . . didn't take me long to realize that I liked the fact that it was cheap heat, I liked watching the fire and would turn off the TV to just watch the fire and it is easy and safe to use . . . if installed correctly and maintained . . . I think it took two weeks or so before I was converted to a 24/7 burner and now the poor oil boiler rarely comes on unless my wife and I have gone to the Carribean on vacation.
Any help or guidance that anyone may provide will be greatly appreciated. This website is a wealth of knowledge.
 
This website has so much information packed in it. I've found myself several times waking up still in front of the forums here drooling on the keyboard a few hours later as I was reading a good chunk of the night. :lol:

Ok, we've narrowed it down & would love some insight. Were going to put the stove on the main floor in the family room. The small flat-screen TV can just be mounted to the wall. We got a chainsaw (Stihl MS 250 w/ 18in bar) and I'm in the process of making a place to stack wood outside. Were looking at pulling the trigger on a new stove real quick. I'm thinking were going to get a Jøtul F 400 Castine. Our place is only 988 sq ft. The way my house is laid out, if I put a tall skinny fan in the main intersection of my home, (approx. 8 feet from the stove) it will blow the warm air into the kitchen and down the hall to the bedrooms. There is a ceiling fan in every room of the house. I would think we will be good. We will buy the enamel coated stove. It will look nicer than just plain black in the main area of the house, plus protect it from rust. We absolutely do not want a catalyst stove, which this one is not. Were gonna buy a pre-done hearth. For the price, after materials and everything else, I'd rather get one that looks nice and compliments the stove than try and build it myself and have sunk the $$ into a hearth that looks like crap and we don't like. We will get our piping from TSC as it's cheaper. I have a friend who knows how to install this stuff or we may hire a known installer to do it for us.

Can I get some opinions of our game plan and choice of stove? Thanks in advance.
 
Sounds like a good choice to me. Jotul makes a great stove. You may find that reversing your plan on the fan to blow the cold air towards the stove may work better than trying to blow the warm air. The ceiling fans will help as well.
 
Take a long hard evaluation of how the chimney will exit the roof. This could be a big factor as to where you are putting the stove. Try and get a straight up chimney with no elbows if you can.

If you can't get any dealers to come off list price you may be able get a discount if you take it home yourself... that is if you have the means. I was quoted a $400 discount on a $4250 wood stove if I took it home myself. I ended up finding a lightly used one for $2000. They loaded it on my utility trailer with a fork truck.

The Clydesdale insert I just bought has the brown porcelain finish and retails for around $4100. I got mine for $3300 delivered. It all depends on your area and the dealer's desire to move products.

The general consensus with using fans is to push the colder air from the other parts of the house into the area that the stove resides. Doesn't sound right but the experienced here say this works best.
 
If I go straight up, the chimney will be on the street side of the house. If I put an elbow on it in the attic, then it will be a little more hidden. Either way, it's going straight up into the attic. Wow, you guys must have some huge stoves at the prices your talking. Were looking at about just over 2k hopefully. I'm going to try and find last years model for a better deal. I'd like to have the hearth set up first, then, buy the stove and put it in place. At the weight of these things, I don't want to have to move it more than a couple inches for pipe fitting. I'm planning on stacking wood about 3-4 feet out the length of my garage, which is about 32 feet. I want enough wood to last when the lights go out and the zombies come........... :lol:
 
I have 3300 sf to heat so i needed big. I also like the more expensive brands. From what I read here many of the average to low cost stoves are really good.
 
sheepdog000 said:
This website has so much information packed in it. I've found myself several times waking up still in front of the forums here drooling on the keyboard a few hours later as I was reading a good chunk of the night. :lol:

Ok, we've narrowed it down & would love some insight. Were going to put the stove on the main floor in the family room. The small flat-screen TV can just be mounted to the wall. We got a chainsaw (Stihl MS 250 w/ 18in bar) and I'm in the process of making a place to stack wood outside. Were looking at pulling the trigger on a new stove real quick. I'm thinking were going to get a Jøtul F 400 Castine. Our place is only 988 sq ft. The way my house is laid out, if I put a tall skinny fan in the main intersection of my home, (approx. 8 feet from the stove) it will blow the warm air into the kitchen and down the hall to the bedrooms. There is a ceiling fan in every room of the house. I would think we will be good. We will buy the enamel coated stove. It will look nicer than just plain black in the main area of the house, plus protect it from rust. We absolutely do not want a catalyst stove, which this one is not. Were gonna buy a pre-done hearth. For the price, after materials and everything else, I'd rather get one that looks nice and compliments the stove than try and build it myself and have sunk the $$ into a hearth that looks like crap and we don't like. We will get our piping from TSC as it's cheaper. I have a friend who knows how to install this stuff or we may hire a known installer to do it for us.

Can I get some opinions of our game plan and choice of stove? Thanks in advance.


988 sq ft, does that include the basement that the stove is going in?
 
BrowningBAR said:
sheepdog000 said:
This website has so much information packed in it. I've found myself several times waking up still in front of the forums here drooling on the keyboard a few hours later as I was reading a good chunk of the night. :lol:

Ok, we've narrowed it down & would love some insight. Were going to put the stove on the main floor in the family room. The small flat-screen TV can just be mounted to the wall. We got a chainsaw (Stihl MS 250 w/ 18in bar) and I'm in the process of making a place to stack wood outside. Were looking at pulling the trigger on a new stove real quick. I'm thinking were going to get a Jøtul F 400 Castine. Our place is only 988 sq ft. The way my house is laid out, if I put a tall skinny fan in the main intersection of my home, (approx. 8 feet from the stove) it will blow the warm air into the kitchen and down the hall to the bedrooms. There is a ceiling fan in every room of the house. I would think we will be good. We will buy the enamel coated stove. It will look nicer than just plain black in the main area of the house, plus protect it from rust. We absolutely do not want a catalyst stove, which this one is not. Were gonna buy a pre-done hearth. For the price, after materials and everything else, I'd rather get one that looks nice and compliments the stove than try and build it myself and have sunk the $$ into a hearth that looks like crap and we don't like. We will get our piping from TSC as it's cheaper. I have a friend who knows how to install this stuff or we may hire a known installer to do it for us.

Can I get some opinions of our game plan and choice of stove? Thanks in advance.


988 sq ft, does that include the basement that the stove is going in?

The stove is going on the main floor of the house. The basement idea was before I really starting reading on here. My house is a small simple design from the 70's. 3 bedrooms all next to each other, down a hallway to the family room on one side and the kitchen/dining on the other. The stove will be going next to a load bearing interior wall. That's really the only place to put it.
 
sheepdog000 said:
If I go straight up, the chimney will be on the street side of the house. If I put an elbow on it in the attic, then it will be a little more hidden. Either way, it's going straight up into the attic. Wow, you guys must have some huge stoves at the prices your talking. Were looking at about just over 2k hopefully. I'm going to try and find last years model for a better deal. I'd like to have the hearth set up first, then, buy the stove and put it in place. At the weight of these things, I don't want to have to move it more than a couple inches for pipe fitting. I'm planning on stacking wood about 3-4 feet out the length of my garage, which is about 32 feet. I want enough wood to last when the lights go out and the zombies come........... :lol:

You probably have already found this out, for the class A pipe in the attic, only 30 or 15 degree offset elbows are permitted.

We had the Castine. It is a fine stove, easy to run and a visual treat. With softwood we got about 1.5 hrs of steady heat (stove top between 500 and 650F) and 4-6 hrs total burn time. The F400 has a good ash system that actually works pretty well. But we found we had better burns and longer fires by letting the ash build up in the pan to the point where it started to cover the grate. After that I would shovel it out rather than using the ash pan system. The Castine burns well with a partial load of fuel. You can get it up to secondary temp with just 3 splits. I strongly endorse getting it in the blue-black enamel. When we sold the stove it looked almost like the day we bought it (and sold for a bit more than I paid for it).

That said, in this size house I would also consider getting a Woodstock Keystone. The reason being that you will get longer burntimes and easier running of the stove in fall and spring. I had to work hard to achieve an overnight burn with softwood. Often I would come down to a cold stove. Supercedars made restarts easier, so this wasn't that big a deal. But when it was really cold out, I wanted heat for longer periods of time.
 
Be Green, the Woodstock Keystone looks very nice. We want a stove with no catalyst though. I'll be getting all sorts of wood being from the mid-west. Were gonna have to buy some wood and play with it this winter to learn the stove, along with spending obscene amounts of time lurking in here and asking questions. I'm collecting wood now, and will continue to do so throughout the winter and into next year. I was thinking of building some wood holders with a wood pallet for a floor and some 2x6 that I have laying around as sides & bracing. I'll elevate the whole thing off the ground a few inches with a few of the 100 or so old landscaping bricks I dug up from the old homeowners bad taste and poor install job. This way it can get air circulated around the wood and I can cover it with a tarp when needed. I don't know, sounds good to me. I'm clearly no expert though. :lol:
 
From all the reading I've done on this site (and I'm sure from all you've read), you'll have a very difficult time finding seasoned firewood for sale. There's a lot advertised as seasoned, but little that actually is. If you can find a friend with a lot of wood split and stacked and seasoned for their own use, you may be able to trade them a cord of theirs for a cord you buy, since they may have a couple years to let it season, but you don't. Do a search in this forum for seasoned firewood and you'll get a quick education.

Ditto on circulating your heat: blow the cold air toward the fire, not the warm air away...a search on the Hearth Room forum for circulating heat will tell you a lot.
 
I'm not sure where in the midwest this is, but if this is in OK or KS you folks are baking the wood this summer with that heat. Stack it so that the prevailing wind can blow through the stacks and only tarp the top if it gets rainy. If you can get ash, that would be great. It has a lower moisture content.
 
Welcome
Hope you got the point of dry wood. If not let me raise the point.
Dry wood is key.
Won't know what dry wood is until you've burned for a while,
but when you burn a load of real dry wood, you'll notice the difference. It lights easy, burns long & hot, no or little smoke & no creosote in the chimney.
Oh yea, for your first years burning, check the chimney regularly for creosote build up. Try to have the pipe installed so it can be cleaned easily.
You are going to love burning a wood stove for heat in your area, warm & cozy.
By the way, dry wood is key, at least a year seasoned for most all wood, 2 years for some wood & 2 years+ for oak.

Sounds like you got a good start, a good stove & have some wood seasoning for this winter. Burn what you got, but what's left over, you'll e amazed how much better it burns next winter.
You may here it here again, well seasoned dry wood is important. But you'll learn what that is as you burn.
2011-12 winter wood was cut, split & stacked (CSS) in fall & winter of 2009-10 for many of us here.
I burned 1 year old or less wood for several winters, & learned on this site the "how & why" to season wood.
Now I don't believe seasoned wood is important, I KNOW it is.

Good luck, have fun.
Be careful: cutting & burning wood is known to become "addictive"
 
Well, BeGreen got me looking at soapstone stoves. The stoves from Woodstock Soapstone Company are not to my wife's and my liking. We went to a local Hearthstone dealer today and found a stove we really like though. Anyone know about the Shelburne wood stove (cast iron) made by Hearthstone? For the price, we can get this in the Basil Majolica (dark green) Porcelain for about the same price as the Jotul F400 in blue/black enamel. We really like the looks of the Hearthstone better. It's not soapstone, but it's in our price range. It's a bit bigger in size than the smaller soapstone stove and about $600.00 cheaper. Any thoughts for a newbie?
 
Sounds like a great fit. I'd splurge for the fan. Good luck! Get some wood.
 
Ya, were either getting the Shelburne by Hearthstone or the F400 Castine by Jotul. Our house is small enough and has a ceiling fan in every room. Plus, I was told that if we turn on the furnace fan, the air return will push the heat around the house real nice. Our huge dilemma is trying to figure out which stove to get after narrowing it down between the two. Were gonna have to buy some wood for this season since were late in the game. However, we will be splitting and stacking this fall for next year and beyond.
 
The furnace fan thing does not work as a few hundred testimonials here will tell you. But I have always wanted to burn in a Shelburne to see how it does. If the stove collar would have been an inch lower I would have owned one in 2006. In the interest of full disclosure there were a lot of complaints in the early years with it about build quality. I figure those have been taken care of now since that was three or four years ago.
 
BrotherBart said:
The furnace fan thing does not work as a few hundred testimonials here will tell you.

x2, using the furnace fan to move air was a pipe dream for us. I tried it for a minute and realized everyone on this site that said it wouldn't work was right. :lol: I do think you could design and insulated duct system to help move the air but for us natural convection does a nice enough job.

A small fan at the end of the hall near the bedrooms blowing the cold air towards the stove will probably work better for you.
 
I was amazed last year at how well my teeny tiny Jotul 602 heated my entire house. Granted, I need to load it every 2-3 hours when it's real cold, but I soon did away with any type of fan to move the air. My downstairs is a completely open floorplan, but upstairs heated up as well. It averaged about 3-4' cooler than downstairs, which suited me just fine--downstairs=living space, upstairs=bedrooms. And my house is 100 years old and super leaky. Of course, VA is not exactly the same climate as the midwest...
 
I got my Shelburne two years ago and haven't had any problems at all. The build quality is great, no complaints. My flue/chimney is straight up, single-wall inside and double-wall outside. It draws great.
 
I've lived with a Castine, and it didn't cut it in a cold climate, but that was in a house with some major heat-loss and layout problems. I have a Hearthstone Heritage now, bought it when I was able to take advantage of the tax credit, and got the stove, install, and enough Excel chimney for a two-story house for about $3500. A chunk of change, but it's done a super job heating this house (the house is almost twice the size of the Castine house, but with more efficient insulation and circulation pattern). Bought it for supplemental and just-in-case heating (which engendered knowing snickers when I posted that here on the board), transitioned over to about 20/7 heating shortly after I started to use it, and then 24/7 in January when the boiler blew. I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but I think I saved about $2400 in fuel oil last year. I'd initially calculated about a five-year payoff, but I now reckon I'll have hit broke-even by the end of this next heating season--and that includes having bought enough birch to make it through the next four years, and a chainsaw so I can supplement my birch with some dry poplar I have.

I have a recommendation to consider: even if you don't plan on heating with it 24/7, do it for a few weeks anyway as a shakedown cruise. That way, if/when the emergency hits for which this is the backup, you've worked out all the little glitches and have all the tools that will make that work. If I hadn't transitioned over to mostly-burning wood before I had to full-time burn it, I would have had a much harder time. By the time the Great January Blow-Out rolled around, other than running around here posting that the sky was falling, it was pretty anti-climatic. My vision for a just-in-case emergency backup was a power failure for a day or two, or fuel oil going through the roof, and this was all real theoretical, down-the-road-a-few-years. I didn't think it would happen so soon, or so dramatically. Now I counsel people that if you're going to use it in an emergency, then act as-if for long enough to work out the kinks (how are you going to haul the wood in the house, where are you going to stack it, how are you going to chop it, start it, clean the glass, dispose of a lot of ash, yadda. This will make more sense as you go along.)

Pretty is as pretty does when it comes to chimneys, and a straight-shot, no-offset chimney on the lee side of a house is a thing of beauty.

Kudos on the decision to put the stove upstairs. I've used this comparision here before, but what the heck: a stove in the basement is like getting a really good dog, and then tying it up to a chain link fence next to a highway in the rain with a bowl of soggy dog food. Even if it's a really ugly stove which will go unnamed, because beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and even really ugly dogs named BK can have good hearts, leaving a stove to burn in the basement is just sad. They're like musical instruments, they have a soul, and become part of the family. I believe you'll be really happy with that decision.

One other thing I'll comment on because no-one else did, and that's the decision to buy a hearth pad instead of making your own. I suggest you go cruising for pix on this site before you make that call. That's what I did, and looked at enough to realize I loved the high-gloss, deep-veined look of granite, but not the high-price of the high end granite hearths. I am not a handyguy, but made an insulated 2" high granite hearth (using panels of countertop HD granite, marked-down seconds with the chips turned so they were under the stove) with oak trim for about the same price as the pads they had at the stove store. (Ask me for details if you're interested.) It works much better than those pads would because it is a marvelous heat sink--a great place to warm toes while toasting buns. It also helps, along with the soapstone, to smooth out the temperature fluctuations in the house. And I think it looks great. Other people here have made knock-your-socks-off hearths that do a beautiful job complimenting their stoves. I will say this much: I've read a lot of compliments on here for hand-made hearths, but I've never seen anyone write, "Wow! Great looking store-bought hearth pad!"

The extra couple of inches of height makes a surprisingly large difference in convenience in loading the stove, cleaning the ashes, and enjoying the light show. I can do all my loading and cleaning sitting in a chair in front of the stove if I want. Other people here prefer them several inches higher, up to a foot or more. I'd just encourage you to give this a little more thought. Buying a pad may be the right choice, but do your thinking-through now while it's all theoretical, and learn from other people's mistakes and serendipities and wisdom. Much cheaper and easier on the back.

Welcome to the forum--this place can really help smooth out the learning curve.
 
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