I have been reading here extensively and learned the importance of seasoned wood. I don't and apparently wont have any of my own for 2- 3 years. So, I need to buy some and this does not seem to be an easy task. I thought I learned that if i have a moisture meter to test the wood and I come up under 20% that wood is good for burning now. However, I just finished reading this from the resources on wet vs dry readings. I am now confused on what is an acceptable number on my meter to buy wood. When everyone here talks about their MC levels of their wood, are they doing the mathematical calculations suggested in this article to convert from dry meter readings to wet? Am i misunderstanding article and making this too complicated? if my goal is to purchase wood with a maximum wet MC of 25% and under (i am allowing an extra 5 over the 20 because of more potential purchasing options), I am good with dry meter readings up to 33% ? If I was trying to hit the or be >20% that every everyone talks about, a reading of >25% is what i should be looking for?
help buying "seasoned" wood using moisture meter
- Thread starter brownclown
- Start date
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johneh
Minister of Fire
Your burning wood not making very expensive furniture
Look for wood at or below 20% mc on your meter.
The higher the mc the less heat you get and the wood is harder to burn
If you need to know the exact mc then a moisture meter is not the tool to use
Look for wood at or below 20% mc on your meter.
The higher the mc the less heat you get and the wood is harder to burn
If you need to know the exact mc then a moisture meter is not the tool to use
mellow
Resident Stove Connoisseur
Simonkenton
Minister of Fire
Get the wood to room temp, which means bring it inside for 24 hours. Split it. Test the freshly split face.
Under 20 percent will work well, ideally you want 17 percent.
You can bring an armload of 20 percent wood into the house and stack it 6 inches away from the stove. In a day or two of heating it will be 17 percent.
Under 20 percent will work well, ideally you want 17 percent.
You can bring an armload of 20 percent wood into the house and stack it 6 inches away from the stove. In a day or two of heating it will be 17 percent.
Bringing it to room temp is not an option when you are trying to check wood u are about to buy, just make sure you split the wood right before you check it. Honestly, the chance of buying ready to burn wood right now is slim to none unless it is kiln dried. And with the price of kiln dried wood you mys well just turn on the oil burner.
Simonkenton
Minister of Fire
Tell the seller you want to test a piece, give him a dollar, and take the piece home and test it.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
Meh, I have more confidence in sellers when they state that the wood is ready. Some sell dry wood but it won’t be the cheap stuff from tweakers.
I guess the sellers on the west coast are more honest than the sellers on the east coast!
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There will always be some bad actors but I believe that there will always be some honest sellers too. Everybody else is somewhere in the middle.
I've been selling some wood this year. I started bringing a moisture meter and tape measure with me. Before offloading, I split a large piece and show the reading to the buyer. I can carry 2 cords in my setup. I give them the dimensions of the load, too. I tell them what the species are. If they are okay with this info, I hand offload.
One guy, a building contractor, liked the moisture meter so much he went and bought one at Lowes. We checked his forest fire burned logs of pine - 28% (I was surprised). Another buyer, a woman, said, ".... last year the guy said it was seasoned but it wouldn't burn and it was too long for our stove..." She had some left, and it was Honey Locust. They were having to chop saw most of the wood. And I've heard, ".... your 2 cords is more than his 3 cords that I got ..." I've noticed buyers do not know what a cord is.
If you are a buyer you have the right to verify 1) quantity/quality delivered, 2) species and wood length, and 3) moisture content. If I was buying wood, I would stop by the seller's location to see the operation and to check the wood's water content, length, quality, and species.
All wood is not the same - 2 cords of poplar = 1 cord of oak, roughly, in terms of heating energy, So, study a btu chart. Locate the species and find its btu rating. Sometimes you might want to obtain a lower btu wood because it is more likely to be dry. That is, it could be dry in one season where something like oak will probably take 3 seasons. So, your odds of getting seasoned wood is higher for the lower btu woods.
Eastern wood sellers are at a disadvantage. Their wood is usually a hardwood (which takes longer to dry), and they are in a wetter environment than most of the western US. The soft woods in the west dry faster, too.
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One guy, a building contractor, liked the moisture meter so much he went and bought one at Lowes. We checked his forest fire burned logs of pine - 28% (I was surprised). Another buyer, a woman, said, ".... last year the guy said it was seasoned but it wouldn't burn and it was too long for our stove..." She had some left, and it was Honey Locust. They were having to chop saw most of the wood. And I've heard, ".... your 2 cords is more than his 3 cords that I got ..." I've noticed buyers do not know what a cord is.
If you are a buyer you have the right to verify 1) quantity/quality delivered, 2) species and wood length, and 3) moisture content. If I was buying wood, I would stop by the seller's location to see the operation and to check the wood's water content, length, quality, and species.
All wood is not the same - 2 cords of poplar = 1 cord of oak, roughly, in terms of heating energy, So, study a btu chart. Locate the species and find its btu rating. Sometimes you might want to obtain a lower btu wood because it is more likely to be dry. That is, it could be dry in one season where something like oak will probably take 3 seasons. So, your odds of getting seasoned wood is higher for the lower btu woods.
Eastern wood sellers are at a disadvantage. Their wood is usually a hardwood (which takes longer to dry), and they are in a wetter environment than most of the western US. The soft woods in the west dry faster, too.
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Brand new stove insert. I had no idea wood needed to be dry. I just assumed "seasoned" meant it was ready to burn. From my reading here it will take any wood i harvest now 2 -3 years to reach 20%.
That is fantastic and would love to buy from you. Do you deliver to NY? LOL. I have now reached out to about 10 people selling wood. Not one has come close to inspiring confidence in a sale. I have found one person that specifies moisture content but they want 300 for a FACE cord. Average cost seems to be between 2-3 for full cord here. When reaching out , I ask how long the wood has been seasoning, average moisture content and finally are they comfortable with either me going there to test some samples or me testing 4 or 5 random pieces before accepting delivery. Not a one has been willing. I have had a 2 honestly say that there wood is recent split. But for the most part it is some song or dance, a picture of a split showing low MC numbers , i'll meet you and you can test a few pieces, wood is wet because of rain, i don't want to load 3 cords only to have you not accept them, etc. etc. I am surprised at how difficult this has been and how rare it is for any seller to acknowledge moisture content. Does the average person just not know?
mellow
Resident Stove Connoisseur
Find the driest wood you can and supplement with Biobricks or something like it.
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Wood does need to be dried (seasoned), but if you've read my post and follow simple directions you'll be below 20% in one season (some say two for Oak.) ie. Early spring to fall. I have the space for a two year cycle so my wood this season is ridiculously dry. My Oak is at 14% the rest is 10-12%. Remember though not everyone has the space for a two year cycle. Most, in my area, buy in the spring, and burn in the fall.
So I would buy green wood now for next year. Might as well start your cycle now. You're going to pay premium for any wood sold as seasoned and that is truly below 20%. I was lucky and found a guy who helped me out in my first year. I've been buying wood from him since. Lots of it. So was a good business arrangement. I hope you can find someone to give you a hand.
Wood that you purchase is ALWAYS wet. I would plan to at least let it dry a year if I bought it. That’s just my practice.
Different types of wood vary with amount of time needed to dry out to a usable percentage. Your location and weather patterns also come into play. White oak and similar hardwoods take along time due to closed cell structure and density. typically 3 seasons. Something like big Leaf Maple( Silver maple as an example) might only need one full season on the other hand Rock Maple ( Sugar maple) will need 3. An old rule of thumb is 1 year per inch of thickness. Conifers ( pine and the like) follow the same rules. You do need to be a bit more careful with these due to the high resin content. Like Deciduous there both hard and soft density wise.
Moisture meters, most are designed for use in wood working and as such the inexpensive ones do not allow for re- calibration, based on type of wood. Better than nothing though. Another thing with the people selling Kiln dried? firewood. Just because they say it that way does not mean it is truly done. A lot of this is set up to kill bugs in the wood which is a far cry from truly drying the splits out all the way through. There are inexpensive ways of making your own solar powered kiln which can significantly reduce the amount of time needed. Do a search here and you should find quite a bit of info on that subject. Mixing compressed wood log/blocks with some so so splits can get you through your first season. if you made it this far welcome to the brother/sister hood of wood burning. Chris
Moisture meters, most are designed for use in wood working and as such the inexpensive ones do not allow for re- calibration, based on type of wood. Better than nothing though. Another thing with the people selling Kiln dried? firewood. Just because they say it that way does not mean it is truly done. A lot of this is set up to kill bugs in the wood which is a far cry from truly drying the splits out all the way through. There are inexpensive ways of making your own solar powered kiln which can significantly reduce the amount of time needed. Do a search here and you should find quite a bit of info on that subject. Mixing compressed wood log/blocks with some so so splits can get you through your first season. if you made it this far welcome to the brother/sister hood of wood burning. Chris
rudysmallfry
Minister of Fire
A few easy ways to weed out the bad actors, is to ask what the moisture content of the wood is. If they can't answer, move onto someone else. Ask when the wood was split. If the answer is anything other than at least a year, it's not seasoned. I have one guy answer the prior two questions, but had the feeling he wasn't on the level, so I told him I would be splitting a few pieces to check moisture content before he unloaded the wood. He quickly disappeared.
Pretty much, like other have said, try to stay a season ahead. There are some good sellers out there, but plenty are fine taking your money and selling you wet wood too
Pretty much, like other have said, try to stay a season ahead. There are some good sellers out there, but plenty are fine taking your money and selling you wet wood too
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
I sold wood this year. About 12 loads. Wood sellers can choose their customers too and I don't want to choose a customer that's going to be difficult and may reject the load which means I eat the fuel cost, the schedule slot, and maybe even have to unload the wood.
I'm going to avoid a person that tells me that they are going to split and MC check. Even though I know it's at 12% MC. I'm going to avoid that customer that wants to get really specific about guaranteeing a specific volume. I'm definitely not ever going to let anybody come to my home for any reason.
And no, not all wood you purchase is wet. That's ridiculous. I sell the oldest wood from my shed. Though I admit that most sellers sell unseasoned wood.
Buy the cheapest wood you can get and assume it's green. Stack it immediately so you can verify the volume and decide if you want more loads.
I'm going to avoid a person that tells me that they are going to split and MC check. Even though I know it's at 12% MC. I'm going to avoid that customer that wants to get really specific about guaranteeing a specific volume. I'm definitely not ever going to let anybody come to my home for any reason.
And no, not all wood you purchase is wet. That's ridiculous. I sell the oldest wood from my shed. Though I admit that most sellers sell unseasoned wood.
Buy the cheapest wood you can get and assume it's green. Stack it immediately so you can verify the volume and decide if you want more loads.
Just curious how you get customers. word of mouth due to a solid reputation of previous sales? I understand the flip side of a difficult customer having worked both sides of sales. no , the customer isnt always right. many customers just SUCK and will never be pleased. I dont feel like wanting to verify a few splits would put me into that category. How else can I protect myself ? I would not reject a load if the wood was dry. I NEED wood so the only risk of refusal is if the seller isnt selling dry wood. The offer to visit was actually for the sellers benefit . They wouldn't have to risk refusal, loading , fuel costs, schedule slot, unloading etc. I also understand not wanting customers at you place and potential liability as again people suck and are generally morons.
This is more of an immediate issue as this is my first stove and had no prior wood knowledge. I have bought some green for the future . Unfortunately i have limited funds for wood this year after my stove purchase and if i trust the wrong seller i wont be able to have heat this year. So this is a high risk situation for me this year. Any tips to not find myself in avoid this customer label yet still ensure i am getting dry wood?
Get the compressed wood blocks, various mfg. You can mix some not so perfect wood splits with these and limp by for this season.
It is difficult to check delivered or at sellers sight with a meter as the units require the wood to be above 65 deg F for a decent reading. None of the lessor cost units give any information on adjustment math wise for lower temp interpretation. You could conceivably make up your own correlation chart or percentage variation by checking a known chunk at apx 70 degF and then the same piece at say around 40 deg F. Units with prongs to stick in wood seldom penetrate deep enough, The infrared ( or whatever system is used ) do a better job as even the lessor cost units spec about 1.5" depth. for edification units are designed with furniture wood supply in mind- generally kiln dried to 6-8% then allowed to stablize which brings back up to apx 10-12%, all of this varies a bit with the kind of wood, with in a few percentage points.
It is difficult to check delivered or at sellers sight with a meter as the units require the wood to be above 65 deg F for a decent reading. None of the lessor cost units give any information on adjustment math wise for lower temp interpretation. You could conceivably make up your own correlation chart or percentage variation by checking a known chunk at apx 70 degF and then the same piece at say around 40 deg F. Units with prongs to stick in wood seldom penetrate deep enough, The infrared ( or whatever system is used ) do a better job as even the lessor cost units spec about 1.5" depth. for edification units are designed with furniture wood supply in mind- generally kiln dried to 6-8% then allowed to stablize which brings back up to apx 10-12%, all of this varies a bit with the kind of wood, with in a few percentage points.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
I sell on FBM and it's amazingly fast and easy. No need for repeat customers but I do get people calling back right away wanting more. No need to establish yearly return customers. I fully expect and enjoy going to new places every time to deliver wood, it's a big part of the fun.
This makes you a high risk customer. Then your wanting to test wood as a condition of sale also makes you a high risk customer. You wanting to come to my woodyard is all about a liability and a waste of time with zero benefit to the seller. The way you can test the product is to buy one load and if you're happy with quality and quantity for the price then order more.
You've got to remember that there is a line of good, easy, buyers right behind you that just order wood and pay cash. I'll happily pass on a customer that wants to waste my time or may reject the load.
The way you protect yourself is to buy the wood early enough that you can season it if it turns out that it wasn't seasoned enough for you. In the meantime, buy the compressed wood bricks. It's great that you appreciate properly seasoned wood, so do I. The best way to get that seasoned wood is to do it yourself.
mellow
Resident Stove Connoisseur
So many people put the cart before the horse and then cry about it being not fair when it doesn't work out.
Suck it up this year as a learning lesson, don't try and place the blame elsewhere.
It will get easier (to a certain degree) with each passing year that you get your wood stock ready to go.
Suck it up this year as a learning lesson, don't try and place the blame elsewhere.
It will get easier (to a certain degree) with each passing year that you get your wood stock ready to go.
I'm glad your sales model work for you. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on wanting to test wood making me a high risk customer. Maybe it does in your eyes because your confident in your product but to buy a load at 250-300 a cord only to not burn it for 3 years isn't going to happen, especially when i can get about 3 to4 ish cords of logs for 100$. Out of the 10+ people i spoke to about a purchase claiming seasoned wood, I would bet my life none of them actually had dry wood and it wasn't because i was difficult or high risk that the sale didnt happen. It didnt happen because the seller knew they were full of it. And if it happens to be because I am high risk buyer, Good , I much rather miss on dry wood than to support a difficult , high risk seller.
There is no waste of time if your selling dry wood. it wood take all of 5 minutes to verify splits. i have no wish to got to a sellers place to check wood. i explained why i offered. You even acknowledge most dont sell seasoned wood so Im very surprised your selling practices haven't caused any issue for you. But then again i suspect most buyers aren't expecting to heat homes with that purchase. either that wood is ambiance heat or for years later.
Thankfully there are sellers like qwee who i would gladly pay a premium too.
