Help identifying issues / solutions to chimney faults

[jwwill0]

We recently moved to a new home (built 1992). Home inspector did his thing with the fireplace / chimney inside, from the roof, and from the crawl space, and said we were good except signs of some cracks on the chimney cap that had already been filled.

Fast forward to my first chimney cleaning / inspection by a chimney sweep (after we had bought the home and moved in), and they use the camera to show me gaps in the mortar between some of the clay tiles.

Info:
-Two story home.
-Large 2 sided wood fireplace on main floor.
-Propane gas fireplace on second floor.
-Shared chimney, 20x20 and 13x13" flues
-No rain cap on either
-Signs of settling/bulging of some bricks in the crawlspace where the brick meets the concrete block foundation.

Need to know all safety issues to focus on. Is the chimney even usable? Can it be repaired? Can converting to inserts solve the problem? Thank you for your time. Please ask for any additional information needed and I will do my best to answer them. The downstairs fireplace is the centerpiece of the entire living area and would be great if we could find a way to use it.

 

[begreen]

Sounds like a nice insert could be put in with a stainless steel liner. That will solve all issues except for the slight foundation question, which may have stabilized by now. I would create some way of accurately measuring the bow over the next few years to see if it is changing.

 

[jwwill0]

Ideally, we could get the fireplace working more efficiently for supplemental heat in winter. Suggestions on this? We would like to stay with wood burning for the looks mainly. It's just supplemental heat. However, it seems like a stove insert is out if unless we give up the 2 sided viewing, but open to all suggestions. Budget is a concern, so trying to get a more experienced view on the options of liner vs inserts, costs, etc. From what the chimney sweep told me, there are issues with an insert due to the mantle, width of brick in front of the fireplace, and arched brick design. There is a propane line ran to the firebox supposedly used originally to start the wood fire??

 

[begreen]

Ah two sided would mean one side blocked of with a decorative screen or just the doors closed. The sweep brought up good points. The hearth in front is inadequate, even for a fireplace. A hearth extension would be needed.

 

[jwwill0]

Thank you. If the sweep noticed some mortar missing between tiles, would that make the fireplace unsafe to use now? I'm assuming the missing rain caps contributed to the missing mortar? I'm getting caps put on. I apologize for the questions. I just really want to have a nice solution for my wife. This fireplace was one of the things she loves most about this house. I hate that we can't use it and I don't know enough about the 'gotchas' to determine what the realistic options for this specific setup would be. Once again, thank you for your time.

 

[begreen]

An insert with a stainless liner eliminates major issues. What did the sweep suggest to mitigate these problems?

 

[jwwill0]

Putting in a vent free gas system. He mentioned some type of 'new' coating they could line the flue with to seal it if we wanted to keep the fireplace as-is. Didn't mention anything about a stainless liner. Everything seemed to revolve around his company selling me inserts at $5k+ a pop, which is fine if that really is the best alternative. That's a little out of the current budget, but if that truly is our only option to get use from the fireplace (and heat), then we can add it to a long term plan.. Based on his other comments about the arched opening and needing custom metal surround, he didn't sound like it would even look that nice, if it was even possible..

Side question, how difficult is it to fix/replace a damper that doesn't want to rotate? Like it is out of alignment or something. I basically have to crawl inside and force it open or closed to look up in the chimney.

Firebox dimensions: 36" wide opening. 43"-44" deep inside door-to-door (front to back). 26.5" opening height at sides and 30.5" height in center of arch.

 

[begreen]

If gas I would still vent it with a full liner. Can you post a picture of the other side's opening or is it identical?

 

[jwwill0]

It is identical. Mantle and all. Here is a side view showing depth.

 

[begreen]

How tall is it at the top of the arch?

 

[jwwill0]

30.5" at top of arch. We would prefer to keep it wood instead of gas if possible, again depending on options and expense.

 

[begreen]

Another option would be to extend the hearth. Then put a freestanding rear-vent stove on this hearth that vents to a liner in the chimney. The stove could be one with an arched door that echos the fireplace arch.
http://jotul.com/us/products/stoves/jotul-f-400-castine

 

[jwwill0]

That's 30.5" to the inside of that metal surround. Not sure how much clearance may or may not be behind that to the brick, but I assume minimal.

 

[bholler]

Ok first dont go vent free. Second if you want some actual heat out of it you need to go with an insert either gas or wood. We need the dimensions of the arch to see what might work

 

[jwwill0]

Do you have an example handy? Would the stove still actually fit inside the fireplace? About how far might I need to extend the hearth?

I don't want vent-free even though it is a very large room. If we went gas, I would vent it.

Firebox dimensions: 36" wide opening. 43"-44" deep inside door-to-door (front to back). 26.5" opening height at sides and 30.5" height in center of arch.

 

[jwwill0]

Sorry, didn't see the link at first. So free standing instead of an actual insert? Is there issues with the heat on the mantle?

 

[jwwill0]

Also, how difficult is the install on something like this? I'm pretty handy, but know zero on this type of install. Professional only type of thing?

 

[bholler]

Also, how difficult is the install on something like this? I'm pretty handy, but know zero on this type of install. Professional only type of thing?

It is not all that difficult at all in most cases. and your flue is large enough you could get a liner in there easily. Just do your research and follow all the instructions and codes. But you should check with your insurance some require installs be done by pros.

 

[jwwill0]

Just curious, but what kind of $$ range we talking about for a stove like this?

 

[Fastdonzi]

You have enough room for a decent sized (large) stove. Mine is a Big stove and its tucked all the way in my fireplace, about 10" deep in fact..

 

[jwwill0]

Also, would this require changing the mantel due any heat concerns?

 

[jwwill0]

I'm confused on what would be required of the existing chimney. Would any repair work / liner be required to the existing chimney, or would there be a new flue pipe ran up through the chimney that is insulated and self contained?

 

[bholler]

would there be a new flue pipe ran up through the chimney that is insulated and self contained?

yes the stove would have a properly sized liner hooked to it

 

[jotul?]

The good news is that the chimney foundation looks just fine as long as there aren't any radical cracks that can't be seen in that photo. The bottom four courses of block were laid at the same time as the rest of the ditch block (foundation) for the perimeter of the house. Then the floor and probably the walls were framed on top of the bottom four courses. Those bottom courses look nice because the guys that put them there could access them easily as there was no house there yet. Once the framing was in and the brick layers came back to build the fireplace, they were reaching down through the floor 18 or 20 inches to bring the masonry up from the original four courses to the new floor height. That's why it looks sloppy, they didn't send someone down into the crawl space to put finishing touches on something that would never see the light of day. That's also why there are bricks up against the lowest framing joist; no cutting block to fit, just dump the bricks in.

 

[jwwill0]

jotul?, I'll double check for other cracking going on with the foundation, but this one area was all I initially noticed as a potential problem. So the bulging couple of layers of brick at the top isn't a major concern as long as it doesn't continue? I don't see any cracking even in that mortar.

The good news is that the chimney foundation looks just fine as long as there aren't any radical cracks that can't be seen in that photo. The bottom four courses of block were laid at the same time as the rest of the ditch block (foundation) for the perimeter of the house. Then the floor and probably the walls were framed on top of the bottom four courses. Those bottom courses look nice because the guys that put them there could access them easily as there was no house there yet. Once the framing was in and the brick layers came back to build the fireplace, they were reaching down through the floor 18 or 20 inches to bring the masonry up from the original four courses to the new floor height. That's why it looks sloppy, they didn't send someone down into the crawl space to put finishing touches on something that would never see the light of day. That's also why there are bricks up against the lowest framing joist; no cutting block to fit, just dump the bricks in.