Help planning for wood stove

bradleydavidgood777

New Member
Mar 23, 2020
34
Media, PA
Hi all!

I am starting to plan a wood stove. I am looking at this model:

It will be perfect to supplement my small home heat.

First thing in my plan is to plan out the clearances and chimney piping.

See pics below.

I am thinking of removing this window, and routing the stove pipe out the right side of the window opening, then filling in the left side with glass block.

I would move all the stuff below the window so that should give me lots of space for clearance.

I am just wondering about any suggestions and what I should be thinking about before I do it.

Specifically, the routing of the stove pipe inside the house and outside, so that I am safe and pass codes.

On the outside, I think I would have to go on an angle, maybe 45 degrees for a short way, in order to get around the 1st floor window which is above the basement window.

Would that be OK for the airflow? And with codes? And how far up the house do I need the chimney to go? How do I find the codes?

Thanks!



 

xman23

Minister of Fire
Oct 7, 2008
2,051
Lackawaxen PA
I tell people to look at the manufacturing instruction before buying the stove. Clearances, hearth and chimney requirements vary between stoves. Is the basement location needed. There are a few concerns with them.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
20,931
central pa
Yes, I looked at all of that. It doesn't specify what happens outside of the house.
The stove manufacturer won't specify any chimney requirements other than size and minimum height. The chimney manufacturer will specify the rest. That is a good stove but it is tiny. I don't see it producing enough heat to make any difference in the house from an uninsulated basement.
 

bradleydavidgood777

New Member
Mar 23, 2020
34
Media, PA
I see. I need to look at chimney manufacturer specs, thanks.
I am not trying to heat the whole house, and it is a small house. Why do you say that you don't see it making any difference? The basement has about 12" rock and concrete walls so I think it will heat all of that up and then the heat will come up from there. What are the concerns with the basement install? I had a wood stove in the basement many years ago and it worked very well. I never turned on the other heat and had to keep the draft on the lowest setting to stay under 80 degrees. So my experience with a stove in the basement is a good one.
 

Davesch

New Member
Jan 15, 2020
10
Raleigh
From what I see, you're going to have to do a lot of work and get minimal benefit with your planned installation. Also, the flue pipe will be a major problem with installation and maintenance. There are so many issues here, too numerous to mention, that I'd suggest you rethink your plan and start over. Main thing is to install the stove in the living space, not in the basement.
 

bradleydavidgood777

New Member
Mar 23, 2020
34
Media, PA
Where do you see a lot of work?

Could you tell me more about the flue pipe problem? I don't understand what you mean.

I have no problem with starting over, but without information about what the numerous problems are, that would be difficult to do. I haven't started anything so its easy to rethink things.

There is very little or no room in the living space - it is a small house.

I had a good experience before with a basement stove. I'm not sure I understand why the heat would not come upstairs when I have 12" stone walls down there and 6" brick walls upstairs. Where else would the heat go but up?
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
20,931
central pa
Where do you see a lot of work?

Could you tell me more about the flue pipe problem? I don't understand what you mean.

I have no problem with starting over, but without information about what the numerous problems are, that would be difficult to do. I haven't started anything so its easy to rethink things.

There is very little or no room in the living space - it is a small house.

I had a good experience before with a basement stove. I'm not sure I understand why the heat would not come upstairs when I have 12" stone walls down there and 6" brick walls upstairs. Where else would the heat go but up?
The heat will go into the massive heatsink of a stone fireplace then right through to the earth on the other side. Yes you can make enough BTUs to overcome that but you won't do it with a stove that small and you will waste tons of wood in the process. I don't really see an issue with the planned flue setup as long as you have enough height to overcome the 2 90s needed to go out through the window and up.
 

bradleydavidgood777

New Member
Mar 23, 2020
34
Media, PA
The heat will go into the massive heatsink of a stone fireplace then right through to the earth on the other side. Yes you can make enough BTUs to overcome that but you won't do it with a stove that small and you will waste tons of wood in the process. I don't really see an issue with the planned flue setup as long as you have enough height to overcome the 2 90s needed to go out through the window and up.
What do you mean by stone fireplace?
 

Bristlecone

Member
Dec 4, 2015
14
S. Lake Tahoe
The stove manufacturer won't specify any chimney requirements other than size and minimum height. The chimney manufacturer will specify the rest. That is a good stove but it is tiny. I don't see it producing enough heat to make any difference in the house from an uninsulated basement.
I know it's a pain in the rear but, in the past, I've googled local codes successfully. Other option is to ask an installer. You most probably will need double or triple wall going through your penetration. I would plan on being a minimum of 10 ft (maybe more) from any window or fresh air intake. Typically, a rise no less than a 1/4 inch per foot is required on horizontal runs. In snow areas, the specs I've seen require termination of pipe to be 3 ft above roof ridge. I apologize for not knowing the local codes. I was a licensed installer in my area, but that was 20 yrs ago. If you are pulling a permit, inspectors like to give homeowners info.

Sorry, I think I quoted the wrong quote, but you get the Idea
 

bradleydavidgood777

New Member
Mar 23, 2020
34
Media, PA
I know it's a pain in the rear but, in the past, I've googled local codes successfully. Other option is to ask an installer. You most probably will need double or triple wall going through your penetration. I would plan on being a minimum of 10 ft (maybe more) from any window or fresh air intake. Typically, a rise no less than a 1/4 inch per foot is required on horizontal runs. In snow areas, the specs I've seen require termination of pipe to be 3 ft above roof ridge. I apologize for not knowing the local codes. I was a licensed installer in my area, but that was 20 yrs ago. If you are pulling a permit, inspectors like to give homeowners info.

Sorry, I think I quoted the wrong quote, but you get the Idea
Thanks!

I just made a phone call to the local codes enforcer/permit guy (left a message). He has been very helpful in the past with things so I expect to get really good info from him.

So far from what I'm hearing, I think I'll try the basement thing, and if it doesn't work out I can always move it to the living room, but it is really tight there.

Still, it's not a lot of work or cost to try it in the basement.

I learned from you guys and elsewhere:

I'll try to use (2) 45 degree angles in the basement if possible rather than one 90 degree.

I'll try to use 22 1/2 angles outside to get around the window.

I'll probably extend way past the top of the roof because my bedroom window is right there - so I'll see what the codes guy says about distance from windows and roofs.

Any other ideas are welcome!
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
20,931
central pa
I know it's a pain in the rear but, in the past, I've googled local codes successfully. Other option is to ask an installer. You most probably will need double or triple wall going through your penetration. I would plan on being a minimum of 10 ft (maybe more) from any window or fresh air intake. Typically, a rise no less than a 1/4 inch per foot is required on horizontal runs. In snow areas, the specs I've seen require termination of pipe to be 3 ft above roof ridge. I apologize for not knowing the local codes. I was a licensed installer in my area, but that was 20 yrs ago. If you are pulling a permit, inspectors like to give homeowners info.
Chimney pipe will be needed from where it meets the wall untill it terminates at the top. Everything else will be specified by that manufacturer
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
20,931
central pa
Thanks!

I just made a phone call to the local codes enforcer/permit guy (left a message). He has been very helpful in the past with things so I expect to get really good info from him.

So far from what I'm hearing, I think I'll try the basement thing, and if it doesn't work out I can always move it to the living room, but it is really tight there.

Still, it's not a lot of work or cost to try it in the basement.

I learned from you guys and elsewhere:

I'll try to use (2) 45 degree angles in the basement if possible rather than one 90 degree.

I'll try to use 22 1/2 angles outside to get around the window.

I'll probably extend way past the top of the roof because my bedroom window is right there - so I'll see what the codes guy says about distance from windows and roofs.

Any other ideas are welcome!
The code guy should tell you to read the manufacturers specs. And you won't get through that window with anything but going straight out tons tee. There just isn't enough room. I would expect it to cost about an extra $500 to $700 to go out through the basement wall instead of straight up and out the roof.
 

bradleydavidgood777

New Member
Mar 23, 2020
34
Media, PA
The code guy should tell you to read the manufacturers specs. And you won't get through that window with anything but going straight out tons tee. There just isn't enough room. I would expect it to cost about an extra $500 to $700 to go out through the basement wall instead of straight up and out the roof.
I plan on doing the work myself, so if this $500-700 is labor, that is not an issue. I will need to consider going straight thru the stone basement wall. If I did that, would I do a 90 degree as soon as possible out of the stove within the recommendations of the manufacturer?

And I am also considering going straight up. So what does that mean? Does it mean going thru the ceiling of the basement, thru the first and second floors and thru the roof? What pipe would be used, single or double wall? And what keeps it safe thru thru the floors - and how to I find out clearances to walls and furniture?

Having the flue go thru the 1st and 2nd floor rooms would bring some heat to those rooms directly right?
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
20,931
central pa
I plan on doing the work myself, so if this $500-700 is labor, that is not an issue. I will need to consider going straight thru the stone basement wall. If I did that, would I do a 90 degree as soon as possible out of the stove within the recommendations of the manufacturer?

And I am also considering going straight up. So what does that mean? Does it mean going thru the ceiling of the basement, thru the first and second floors and thru the roof? What pipe would be used, single or double wall? And what keeps it safe thru thru the floors - and how to I find out clearances to walls and furniture?

Having the flue go thru the 1st and 2nd floor rooms would bring some heat to those rooms directly right?
No that price difference is mostly in materials. That tee and extra chimney pipe costs allot. You would use the same chimney pipe inside to go straight up that you would outside. And no you would not gain any heat upstairs from the chimney. Again this will all be laid out by the chimney manufacturer but generally the chimney pipe needs 2" clearance and needs to be enclosed in a Chase.
 

Davesch

New Member
Jan 15, 2020
10
Raleigh
77, you'll have a toasty warm basement but how do you plan on getting heat upstairs? Leave the basement door open? You have pets or young children? As for the flue installation, you'll have to go vertical out of the stove, then horizontal through the wall, then vertical again to go up and through the eave if the house. That's two 90 degree turns. You don't say whether the house is one story or two but either way there will have to be some type of sturdy support under the outside vertical run and possibly into the exterior house wall. Two 90 degree turns will make cleaning the flue a nightmare. It will have to be dissembled to do a proper job. The entire flue system will be unsightly. And if the flue is single wall pipe, it will cool the gasses so much that you may not get a decent draft and will create a lot of creosote. You could mitigate that by burning the stove very hot, but that's a waste of wood, more work to cut it, store it and haul it to the basement, and waste a lot of heat to the outside. Double or triple wall pipe will reduce the cooling of the exhaust gas, but will be heavy and expensive. Also note that the flue exhaust point should be higher than the peak of the roof (I can't remember the recommended height), so you'll end up with a very tall flue at the edge of the roof. depending on the pitch of the roof. Otherwise, you may not get good draft. And how will you support if from blowing over in the wind?

I think you'll spend a lot of money with your proposed installation with minimal benefit and maximum problems. Consider putting the stove in the living space.

Ideally, you should use only vertical straight runs for the flue. With my stove (in the middle of our one story house), the flue is single wall from the top of the stove to the ceiling, then double wall from the ceiling through the shallow attic and above the roof. The stove is located near enough to the middle of the house so that the outside portion of the flue can be shorter while still extending above the peak. And if I need to clean the flue (rarely), the creosote falls straight down into the stove and then is burned.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
20,931
central pa
Ok taking the pipe apart to clean really is not that big of a deal at all. Maybe an extra 5 mins. And any exterior pipe needs to be chimney pipe not single wall pipe. The problems I see with the setup is the basement is uninsulated and the stove is way to small for the application. I doubt the basement would even be that warm.
 

bradleydavidgood777

New Member
Mar 23, 2020
34
Media, PA
As for the flue installation, you'll have to go vertical out of the stove, then horizontal through the wall, then vertical again to go up and through the eave if the house. That's two 90 degree turns. You don't say whether the house is one story or two but either way there will have to be some type of sturdy support under the outside vertical run and possibly into the exterior house wall. Two 90 degree turns will make cleaning the flue a nightmare.
Isn't going vertical out of the stove, then horizontal, then vertical again the only way to do it if you go out of a house? I don't understand the concern here or other option being offered.

Why would it be difficult to remove these pipes? Are they connected some special way that is hard to get apart?

I did say that there were 2 stories and a roof.

There is no eave. Flat roof, and the overhang at the top is an inch or two wider than the brick on the side of the house.
 

moresnow

Minister of Fire
Jan 13, 2015
1,106
Iowa
I have a dog named otto, he is a german shorthair pointer and is 5. I do not have young children. Why do you ask?


Guessing the basement access door being open for heat transfer? Potential fall concern possibly.

German Shorthair's are cool. I had a couple over the years when there were still good numbers of roosters to chase.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
20,931
central pa
Isn't going vertical out of the stove, then horizontal, then vertical again the only way to do it if you go out of a house? I don't understand the concern here or other option being offered.

Why would it be difficult to remove these pipes? Are they connected some special way that is hard to get apart?

I did say that there were 2 stories and a roof.

There is no eave. Flat roof, and the overhang at the top is an inch or two wider than the brick on the side of the house.
You can go straight up off the stove through the house and out the roof. It is cheaper and works better but is more work. No the pipe is not hard to take apart.
Yes, I can leave the basement door open no problem. The heat will also come thru the floor, it is not insulated and just wood floor.
Yes but only the small amount of heat left that isn't eaten up by that stone and the earth. You will loose about 1/3 of your BTUs to the basement walls