help with Heritage smoking problem please

[Tink]

Okay. Ihave been really happy with the heat output of this stove. It's beautiful and heating great.

Just one problem. I keep getting slightly stingy eyes and throat and can smell a odd smoky smell much of the time we are burning, which is most of the time. I am keeping my birds in a separate room with an electric heater, unless the stove isn't smelling, and then they are out inthe living room.

I really thought that I could use a HEPA air filter to filter out the smoke smell out of the air, but it isn't working. I open a window, but I don't know if this aids the draft in pulling out all smoke traces or not.

My husband thinks this is all in my head, but he's the kind of guy who can stand around in the pits, breathing exhaust from race cars burning methanol and think it's just fine. If I do that, my eyes burn and I run away since I cannot breathe at all. He also reloads the fire with this method, turn off the air intake lever, slowly open the side door so that the smoke from the stove keeps going in and up the chimney, put one split in on top of the coals, then gently close the door, and turn the air up a teeny bit, for a minute and then back down to nearly zero, while the new split slowly, slowlyheats up,then smokes and then finally starts to barely burn. Meanwhile, it really gives off a smelly smell.

Well, I have done some checking tonight, and it seems from the research, that we may have an inadequate chimney, or it's not tall enough to pull enough of a draft or our wood isnt' dry enough. I will pick up some grocery store wood tomorrow to see if it burns differently.
\

My question is this: Is there anything at all I can do to reduce the smoke smell or helpthe chimney draft better? We did do the install ourselves, and we thought everything was to spec. I need to measure the chimney height to make sure it's to spec. If it's not, and this is my guess, how hard is it to add a section to the top of the chimney?????

BTW, Ichecked all the gaskets but the ash pan door, and they are tight. The chimney section that connects to the top of the stove didn't have a gasket, should it?

HELP!~

 

[crazy_dan]

[quote author="Tink" date="1200658702"] He also reloads the fire with this method, turn off the air intake lever, slowly open the side door so that the smoke from the stove keeps going in and up the chimney, put one split in on top of the coals, then gently close the door, and turn the air up a teeny bit, for a minute and then back down to nearly zero, while the new split slowly, slowlyheats up,then smokes and then finally starts to barely burn. Meanwhile, it really gives off a smelly smell. quote]

I believe the method is open the air up for a few seconds and let it rip get the chimney warm then slowly open the door add wood close door let wood get charred then close down the air. Well thats the method I use an it heats up fast and no Smokey smell. the new wood should catch fire quickly not smolder as smoldering causes creosote.
Hope this helps.

 

[begreen]

My question is this: Is there anything at all I can do to reduce the smoke smell or helpthe chimney draft better? We did do the install ourselves, and we thought everything was to spec. I need to measure the chimney height to make sure it's to spec. If it's not, and this is my guess, how hard is it to add a section to the top of the chimney?????

BTW, Ichecked all the gaskets but the ash pan door, and they are tight. The chimney section that connects to the top of the stove didn't have a gasket, should it?

HELP!~

We'll need to know the details of the flue installation. If you can post some pictures it will help. It's possible to mis-install flue pipe, especially single wall pipe. If the joints are upside down than they may leak smoke. Also, if there is a long horizontal run it might leak smoke. Was the stove pipe painted after installation? That can also be a source of outgassing.

 

[Tink]

Hi Begreen,
Hmmmm. The only thing we could have trouble with is those likely upside down single wall pipes before it goes to the special thingy that is at the ceiling level. The stovepipe wasn't painted, and there isn't any horizontal.

I think that the trouble is creosote. That is what it smells like to me, I am seriously wondering if our wood is not dry enough. It's only one year old, cut from some trees lying on the ground when we bought this place. It seems like the re-loaded splits take more effort to get going... than it should.

I let this morning's fire go out, and the stove stopped heating this afternoon. I cleaned out the ash pan, wiped some creosote off the ash pan door *(yuck!)Removed some ash from the firebox, and aired the house out really good. Late in the afternoon, I did a textbook cold start with paper, kindling and larger wood. Everything was going fine, until I added some splits, some smoke came out of the side door, and once again it stunk like creosote.

I mentioned to my husband about wondering if the wood was completely dry. He laughed and looked at me like I was crazy.

It just seems to me that we should not be having such creosote, especially when I am not trying to burn completely damped down.....

 

[Highbeam]

Your owner's manual tells you to open the primary air damper fully before loading and for a period after each load for the sake of rapid ignition, secondary burn establishment, and to heat the chimney. Shutting the air to zero before opening isn't proper. Open to full before opening and then leave it there until the fire is roaring. I also open the door a crack and pause to prevent sucking a gulp of smoke out the door.

It sounds like you are burning it low and slow as if trying to barbecue. Do you have a stove top thermometer? It should be 400 or so. The low-low burn with the air control set to zero is not what the manual wants you to use all the time. The macual recommends a low/medium setting for regular burning.

Is your chimney smoking all the time?

Lastly, wood burnign will always smell a little bit. There is no way to prevent being exposed to a wiff of smoke from time to time and some people are very sensitive to even small amounts of smoke. I hope to never be too sensitive, I actually like that smell.

 

[Tink]

Hi Highbeam,
Ok, thanks for your comments! We usually burn the logs wayyyyy down and so there's not much to get roaring before opening thedoor. We do open the door a crack and we do it slowly, load the splits quickly and then quickly shut the door.

We don't have a thermometer. Will have to get one. Will have to monitor the air intake. Once the newly added wood has ignited and burning, there isn't smoke coming out of the stack. Unfortunately, as the wood burns down, it will stop burning well, then go back to smoldering but the stack doesn't smoke but a little bit.

I know the wood smoke smell, and I don't mind a bit of smoke. It's the creosote smell that I dont' like. The reason why I am so sensitive, is that I had been using this antique "oak" style wood stove, used a copper sulfate fire starter thingy with some parrafin thingy on it to get a fire going, and thensuper stinky smoke came out, it was toxic, choking...

I moved my birds immediately to a bedroom and shut the door, but it was too late. They had all breathed in some of that smoke from the copper sulfate fire starter thingy and they were all sick, poisoned from this smoke. One of my birds got deathly sick and died two days later. I myself, lost my sense of smell for several days from breathing this stuff. It's a wonder all my birds didnt' die. In any case, they all received respiratory damage, and so I am hypervigilant about smells and smoke. The normal wood smoke smell isn't a problem, but the creosote smell gives me burnign eyes and throat, and so this is what I need to eliminate.

So that's the story. I feel so bad whenI think of something I did making my birds sicken and die. We don't have any human kids, and these birds ARE our kids, so it's especially painful.

This is why I am so concerned about this. Thanks again for all your advice, I'll keep trying to eliminate the smells, and until then, I'll just do my best to keep the birds away from it.....

 

[Tink]

Ok, the fire does not burn, but just smolders and smokes if the air intake is not wide open or 85 percent open. If you shut it down to half, it immediately starts to smolder. Also hubby just confessed toight that he saw a wisp of smoke come out where the stove pipe connects to the top of the stove there. This was after he quickly pulled out all the little aluminum foil bits that I had carefully stuffed into all the little crevices around the stovepipe area and also after he started the fire for this morning.

I am so sick of this creosote smell. It's nauseating. I'm going to give the dealer a call tomorrow to see if he can give any advice about sealing the pipes up.

I can tolerate some wood smoke. We used a wood stove all winter in our previous home, but never had this creosote stink.

I am SO FRUSTRATED I want to scream!

http://worth1000.com/emailthis.asp?entry=312664

 

[jtp10181]

At a glance it sounds like your chimney cap is plugged up. Classic symptoms. If smoke is coming out of the pipe there is a reason, it has no place else to go. Normally the draft will pull a little air INTO the chimney at any places not perfectly sealed up.

What kind of wood have you been burning? How long has it been split and stacked? Does it sizzle or has bubbles of moisture coming out of the ends?

It sounds like you have a hard time keeping the fire going as well, which is a sign of wood with too much moisture. Which is what will cause the chimney cap to become plugged.

 

[Tink]

Hi Jtp,
I will climb up on the roof and look and check out the chimney cap today. I saw smoke coming out yesterday just fine, so I don't think it could be clogged, but will check it out anyway.

We are burning wood that had been laying on the ground when we bought this place in 2006, actually we cut most of it up spring of 2007. We stack rounds, not splits. Firewood was stacked up in a big woodshed near the house, it's very clean and dry in there, and it has no doors on the building. We are on the edge of high desert here, very low humidity, and part of each day is quite windy, so dry air circulation should be good for firewood drying.

Unfortunately, I do see some liquid bubbling on logs in the fireplace. I will be picking up a bundle or two of firewood from the store today just to compare how the wood stove "behaves" with this known dry wood.

How can I measure firewood humidity??? Is there a tool?

Thanks again!

 

[begreen]

Yes, until rounds are split, they may not dry. A round can hold moisture for a long time. However, in your environment, it should dry quickly if you can split it up soon. Even a month of drying splits will help if there is good air circulation through the pile. Split up a batch a little thinner than usual to accelerate drying. Try 2-4" splits.

 

[Cazimere]

Hi Jtp,
I will climb up on the roof and look and check out the chimney cap today. I saw smoke coming out yesterday just fine, so I don't think it could be clogged, but will check it out anyway!

Tink, You should not see any smoke comming out of your chimney, if your wood is seasoned and dry,
except when you initially start it up. If it smokes all the time, your wood is not dry. Your Chimney probably
needs swept and your stove pipe needs reinstalled correctly.

 

[Tink]

Well the chimney doesn't smoke *all* the time, but it does smoke more than just when newly added logs are getting started..... which makes me think it's not fully dry....

When I was a kid and went to cut wood with my dad, he always would cut the rounds and then split the big ones and we'd throw it all in the back of the truck. Then when we got home, he'd split the rest and all the kids would stack it up. I do not ever remember a stinky smell like this in our home in those days.

I think I will just go downstairs and start up the pellet stove as soon as the soapstone cools down.

Does anyone know where to get a firewood humidity tool????? If I can measure the humidity, I might be able to know better when the wood is ok and when it's not.

 

[swestall]

I'm looking at the posts and don't easily see it: what type of stove is this (Hearthstone Herigage?), what size chimney does it go into and has it ever burned "nice".....?

 

[Cazimere]

Moisture Meter http://www.professionalequipment.com/extech-wood-moisture-meter-mo200/wood-moisture-meter/

And (broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.org/firewood/fuelproc.htm)

 

[Tink]

Hi again,
The stove is a heathstone heritage, it's new, installed in mid december. The stovepipe is straight up from the upward facing outlet on the top part of the stove, and the stovepipe is 6". The single wall 6" stovepipe goes up next to the ceiling where it connects with the triple wall same size pipe, then goes through the thimble and ceiling, then up through the crawlspace and roof, and exterior chimney surround thingy. I went and looked outside this morning and sure enough I could see heat waves(?) comingout, but not smoke, as the fire is almost out and stove starting to cool.

When the stove was new we had no creosote smell, but about a couple weeks ago we started getting this stink on a regular basis. What is strange is that we are using the same wood as we used when we were using the antique "oak" style stove (which is NOT airtight), the wood burned, heated the living room and we never got the creosote smell.

We put in the soapstone stove because I wanted to avoid the blazing hot/freezing cold cycle, and the continual adding wood/tinkering with the stove thing.

Thanks for the wood moisture meter. I'll be ordering one today!

 

[Cazimere]

Split your piece of wood in half immediately before you test it, so you are testing the interior of the wood : )

 

[Tink]

Thanks Caz. I'll do that. BTW, where's Delmarva? Your place, surrounded by wildlands sounds nice. We are rural, but up against forest/rangeland. We like it alot!

 

[swestall]

Is this smell a kind of sweet smokey smell? I am wondering if you are progressing through curing your stove. The soapstone stove, as with most, will cure with hot burns. It takes some doing to get that stove up to a 500 or so temp and then to keep it there. You might even get it up as high as 600.

You cure the stove at each higher temp. So, you get a smell at 300, 400, 450 and so on. If you are reaching new temp levels, you are going to get this smell with each new step. BUT it is going to go away.

ON the Mansfield, it took me a number of progressively hotter burns to get the smell out. The good news is after a while, it goes away; but it took more than a few break in fires. I knew the smell and just kept burning it; slowly it was less and less. But, I got it a bit hotter than usual the other night and I smelled a faint smell of it again; because I reached a new temp. step where something had not burned off, but did.

My wife kept asking me what that was and she hated it. I have to confess that I don't mind the smell of burning paint/etc, but it bothers my sinuses.

I'm just wondering if you have been working through this process. Does it smell like the first fire did, but a little less each time, or is it just as strong or worse each time?

Creosote smells almost like tar burning. Then there is smoke itself; that smell you get around the campfire.

The Heritage is a pretty nice unit and if it has no leaks should actually have little smell, save a slight bit of smoke if you open the door too quickly.

One last question is do you have any trees or roofs close by your roof? I'm wondering if you might have a bit of a backdraft sometimes.

 

[Cazimere]

Thanks Caz. I'll do that. BTW, where's Delmarva? Your place, surrounded by wildlands sounds nice. We are rural, but up against forest/rangeland. We like it alot!

The eastern shore of Delaware, Maryland and Virginia is called DelMarVa.
I'm in the Maryland bit : )

 

[jtp10181]

I saw smoke coming out yesterday just fine, so I don't think it could be clogged, but will check it out anyway.

Thats what my customers always tell me...

Then they call back a few days later and tell me I was right :cheese:

From the other info you posted about the bubbles coming out, sounds like a classic case of wet wood.

 

[Tink]

Swestall wrote:
Is this smell a kind of sweet smokey smell? I am wondering if you are progressing through curing your stove. The soapstone stove, as with most, will cure with hot burns. It takes some doing to get that stove up to a 500 or so temp and then to keep it there. You might even get it up as high as 600.

You cure the stove at each higher temp. So, you get a smell at 300, 400, 450 and so on. If you are reaching new temp levels, you are going to get this smell with each new step. BUT it is going to go away.

Okay.... I do think it's a wierd sweet smell....It's definitely temperature related.... but If I am burning a hot fire the smell is less, but if its smoldering the smell is more. Also, the longer we have a fire going the more smell gets into and through the house.

I'll get up on the roof tomorrow and pull the cap off and have a look.....

I mentioned about the bubbles to my husband and he told me for sure the bubbles are from the sap, not water.......
I say that sap is mostly water.....

In any case, we are burning a load of wood that came in a bundle from the grocery store. It certainly looked dry, but is still doing occasionally popping. It's making the stinky smell again.... so I wonder if it's the creosote coating inside the stove or if it's the stone curing......

 

[Mandoo]

Swestall wrote:
Is this smell a kind of sweet smokey smell? I am wondering if you are progressing through curing your stove. The soapstone stove, as with most, will cure with hot burns. It takes some doing to get that stove up to a 500 or so temp and then to keep it there. You might even get it up as high as 600.

You cure the stove at each higher temp. So, you get a smell at 300, 400, 450 and so on. If you are reaching new temp levels, you are going to get this smell with each new step. BUT it is going to go away.

Okay.... I do think it's a wierd sweet smell....It's definitely temperature related.... but If I am burning a hot fire the smell is less, but if its smoldering the smell is more. Also, the longer we have a fire going the more smell gets into and through the house.

I'll get up on the roof tomorrow and pull the cap off and have a look.....

I mentioned about the bubbles to my husband and he told me for sure the bubbles are from the sap, not water.......
I say that sap is mostly water.....

In any case, we are burning a load of wood that came in a bundle from the grocery store. It certainly looked dry, but is still doing occasionally popping. It's making the stinky smell again.... so I wonder if it's the creosote coating inside the stove or if it's the stone curing......

I have wood processing going on in one of my buildings, it's the real deal and not scrap wood. The .75 cubic foot wraps are sold in campgrounds and gas stations. We just shipped a semi load out on Saturday most of this load was still green and supposed to be held for sale until summer. The point is (first hand) Don't trust the wraps you buy at the store not to mention the costs (yikes!)

 

[Tink]

Okay Mandoo. If I buy another bundle, I'll test it just out of curiosity. It was rather spendy.... 4.95 (cute price,huh?) for the bundle. They did "ring" with a high crack when knocked together, and were lightweight. I do think that they were dry. They did seem pretty lightweight for their size. I got the impression of "Balsa" almost!

 

[Mandoo]

The stuff I see at the big "box" stores are usually just dry scrap that is o.k. to burn, it would just burn fast. The stuff that comes from my place still has bark and is in small splits, higher quality than the norm but still green. Actually it amazes me there is as big a market for the wraps as there is. I'm certainly not putting you down for using them we have to rely on whatever resources we can to stay warm and enjoy our stoves.

 

[swestall]

I can't wait to hear the next installment of this.
The stove curing will smell like you describe and it will get stronger the longer you burn during each fire until it is totally cured. The good news is it will go away, after a while. Do you burn 24/7? Or do you burn and then let it go out?
Have you tried keeping the draft open 1/2 or so and not shutting it down so the stove will burn hot and long for a while?
Others have implied, you are not going to smell much of anything coming out of the stove unless you have an obstruction in the air pass of the stove. (from the input to the output of the chimney). Or, if the stove backpuffs on you, in which case you would most likely see/hear it.
The curing stove will make your eyes burn, smell sweet and even make you almost nausiated as it is burning paint and other things used to put the stove together.