Help: wood stove smell, and inefficency. (And keeping wife happy)

[CorvetteZ0606]

Hello all,

About 8 years ago, I got a US Stove 2421 wood stove and put it into my fireplace. See picture below. Well, I was enjoying it and everything was fine, until I got married. Actually it was a couple of years after I got married when the wife finally fessed up that she didn't like it because it "makes the house smell funny".

Part of this may be because of the way I run it, I try to get the fire going real good, then close the damper thingy as much as I can to get it to be more efficient. I hate the idea of all that heat just going up the flue, when it still seems cold in the house. (House is 1400sq foot A-frame). I think part of the problem is that the house is a bit "loose", and I get drafts coming in from places.

Also, sometimes I use a box fan to blow are around the back of the wood stove so the heat can come out into the room.

Anyways, wife complained, so we haven't used it in 2 years. It's getting cold again and with only electric heat, my wallet wants me to run the wood stove again... So I'm kind of at a loss as to what to do because I want to keep my wife happy, but I don't want to run the electric heat.

I'm considering the following ideas and/or combinations of them:

1. get a bunch of stove cement and try to seal up my stove. (Do I need to take it apart for this?) (Will it make a significant difference? I don't generally see "smoke" leaking out from seems, but I don't know where the smell comes from)
   
2. Add firebrick inside the stove. (Currently it's just an iron box with a bed of ash in it)
3. Add firebrick outside the stove.
4. Move the stove further into the room and add some kind of exhaust heat extractor to raise efficiency.
5. Replace the whole thing with a new stove or wood stove insert. (Do wood burning inserts cause smells like mine does, or are they better? Would I see similar efficiency with an insert, or does a lot more heat end up going up the chimney?)
   
6. Add some kind of fresh air intake. (Possibly with a fan) (Maybe snake it down the chimney parallel to the 6 inch exhaust pipe to help the air temperature coming in if I can somehow keep fresh separate from exhaust so I don't get a smell.

The main effort is to eliminate "the smell", and secondarily to get the whole thing running as efficiently as possible.

Your thoughts and impressions are greatly appreciated.

Brian

 

[trueg50]

When does it actually smell? At all times, or just when the door is open? Are you burning good dried wood? How are the stove temps when you "close up" the damper?

How is the condition of the gaskets for the door(s)? Do they pass the "dollar bill test"?

I'm no expert, but I don't think its advisable that the stove should be installed that close to combustibles (carpet) due to risk of sparks/embers. It is far better than a stove with a wide door and loaded east-west, but do be careful.

 

[Rickb]

Honestly having used this same stove 2 different times here are my suggestions...... Take them for whats its worth.

First cut up a bunch of wood and split it, depending on the type of wood it will be ready to burn in 1.5 - 3 years.

Second take that stove to your local dump and pitch it. I have never seen one of these types of stoves running and not get some smoke smell in the house.

Third buy a new stove. There are a many good stoves that are cheap now a days.

Forth if you do not have a liner you will need to buy one and install it.

Then you will be able to run your stove and not have the wife complain.

 

[Doc C]

Honestly having used this same stove 2 different times here are my suggestions...... Take them for whats its worth.

First cut up a bunch of wood and split it, depending on the type of wood it will be ready to burn in 1.5 - 3 years.

Second take that stove to your local dump and pitch it. I have never seen one of these types of stoves running and not get some smoke smell in the house.

Third buy a new stove. There are a many good stoves that are cheap now a days.

Forth if you do not have a liner you will need to buy one and install it.

Then you will be able to run your stove and not have the wife complain.

If this stove is as old as it looks you might also post in the classic stove section.

Seems to be a pretty rough install. I worry about the carpet catching on fire from an ember falling out and not noticing.

Also I'm curious about the liner situation? Did you just attach a bunch of single wall pipe to the top of the stove? Did you use and insulated flexible liner? Zooming in looking at where the pipe attaches to the stove it looks rusted real bad, maybe dirt, can't tell.

 

[coaly]

#1 is the chimney.
What diameter and height is the flue? Interior or exterior? Masonry?

#2 you need 18 inches of floor protection in front of the door.

All seams should be sealed with something like Rutland Stove and Gasket cement, (you don't have to take it apart to seal) but when you fix the problem with the chimney, it will only leak air INTO the stove, not out. Sealer is needed to slow it down from leaking air in.

Careful with how much you close the flue damper. That is a chimney control to slow draft. Depending on your chimney, you may not be able to do that. That is why I ask for chimney specs first.

 

[CorvetteZ0606]

If this stove is as old as it looks you might also post in the classic stove section.

Seems to be a pretty rough install. I worry about the carpet catching on fire from an ember falling out and not noticing.

Also I'm curious about the liner situation? Did you just attach a bunch of single wall pipe to the top of the stove? Did you use and insulated flexible liner? Zooming in looking at where the pipe attaches to the stove it looks rusted real bad, maybe dirt, can't tell.

Stove was installed about 8 years ago. I bought it new at that time. As you said, it was a little bit rough of an install. I did it myself. The fireplace was meant for burning wood, and it has a steel door damper that was cemented in. With the door all the way open, I was able to squeeze the 6 inch single wall pipe through. I had to use several twist-angle pieces to get everything line up with the stove. On the other side of the existing damper, there is what appears to be a square chimney of firebrick that's about 11 inches square. I decided to just run the 6 inch single wall up inside this all the way to the top of the chimney. There's no cap on the top of the chimney. (long story) That's why when it rains, rain drips down the chimney and causes rust on the 6 in pipe and the stove. Oh, I forgot to mention that I closed off the rest of the area around the 6 in pipe with fiberglass insulation to block air/smoke/whatever from coming back down the chimney.

 

[CorvetteZ0606]

#1 is the chimney.
What diameter and height is the flue? Interior or exterior? Masonry?

#2 you need 18 inches of floor protection in front of the door.

All seams should be sealed with something like Rutland Stove and Gasket cement, (you don't have to take it apart to seal) but when you fix the problem with the chimney, it will only leak air INTO the stove, not out. Sealer is needed to slow it down from leaking air in.

Careful with how much you close the flue damper. That is a chimney control to slow draft. Depending on your chimney, you may not be able to do that. That is why I ask for chimney specs first.

The chimney is brick outside and inside it has what I think is some type of firebrick. I'd estimate it's about 30ish feet tall. (It's above the roof of the second floor of the house.) I ran 6 inch pipe up the inside of the chimney all the way to the top.

When you say the damper is chimney control, do you mean it's not meant to control fire? If I open it all the way and leave it open I get a roaring fire and in my oppinion, all the heat goes up the chimney. I usually close it as far as it will go once I get the fire going so that I can control the fire a bit.

 

[Woody Stover]

5. Replace the whole thing with a new stove or wood stove insert. (Do wood burning inserts cause smells like mine does, or are they better? Would I see similar efficiency with an insert, or does a lot more heat end up going up the chimney?)

IMO, this is the way to go. There are "value" stoves, basic stoves that will do the job..and you won't have to sell the 'Vette to pay for them. You can get a new one for under 1K, or even find a used one on craigslist, although that's riskier and you have to know what to look at on a used stove. That said, a decent chimney-pipe setup could cost you almost as much as the stove. Sure, all this is a bit of money up front but you will save wood (cost if you buy it, labor if you get your own.) And a happy woman?...priceless.

 

[CorvetteZ0606]

When does it actually smell? At all times, or just when the door is open? Are you burning good dried wood? How are the stove temps when you "close up" the damper?

How is the condition of the gaskets for the door(s)? Do they pass the "dollar bill test"?

I'm no expert, but I don't think its advisable that the stove should be installed that close to combustibles (carpet) due to risk of sparks/embers. It is far better than a stove with a wide door and loaded east-west, but do be careful.

Wife says that the smell lasts until spring when I stop using it. I personally don't think there's much smell, but the wife is more picky. A couple of times when I was getting it started I forgot to open a window to prevent smoke entering the house before I get the chimney temperatures up. That could be part of the problem. Once the wife smelled anything, then in her mind it must smell bad all the time. Or maybe I'm not good at getting it started in general and a little bit of smell gets in each time.

The seal on the door is some kind of rope that's glued in place. It seems to seal up pretty tight. I'm not familiar with the dollar bill test.

I can't tell you the temps, because I don't have a thermometer on the setup.

 

[edyit]

usually when a stove has turned "white" like that it has been rode hard. only thing i would do with that stove is replace it.

 

[Simonkenton]

I had that same exact model stove, the first stove I ever had, back in Georgia in 1971. I thought it was great at the time, because it was the only stove I had ever used.

Since then, I have had six more stoves and now I realize what a piece of junk that stove was. Get rid of it you won't believe how much better life is with a good new wood stove.

 

[blacktail]

Be thankful it didn't burn your house down and properly instal a new stove or insert.

 

[trueg50]

Wife says that the smell lasts until spring when I stop using it. I personally don't think there's much smell, but the wife is more picky. A couple of times when I was getting it started I forgot to open a window to prevent smoke entering the house before I get the chimney temperatures up. That could be part of the problem. Once the wife smelled anything, then in her mind it must smell bad all the time. Or maybe I'm not good at getting it started in general and a little bit of smell gets in each time.

Women can be a picky lot, but I suppose us guys just aren't picky enough!
It certainly could be around how the stove is started; and the smell can linger for a bit but it shouldn't be all that long unless you have other issue causing poor draft and smoke leakage when reloading.

It could also be poor/punky wood; that will smoke and can smell terrible.

The seal on the door is some kind of rope that's glued in place. It seems to seal up pretty tight. I'm not familiar with the dollar bill test.

The dollar bill test involves taking a dollar bill, close and lock the door on it, and see if you can move the bill. You should not be able to move the bill if the door/gasket (that rope you see) is establishing a good seal.

I can't tell you the temps, because I don't have a thermometer on the setup.

A thermometer would be a very good idea, that way you know how hot the stove is and if it is just smoldering (and smoking/smelling more), or if it is way over temp and possibly being damaged or not burning as efficiently.

 

[coaly]

The chimney is brick outside and inside it has what I think is some type of firebrick. I'd estimate it's about 30ish feet tall. (It's above the roof of the second floor of the house.) I ran 6 inch pipe up the inside of the chimney all the way to the top.

When you say the damper is chimney control, do you mean it's not meant to control fire? If I open it all the way and leave it open I get a roaring fire and in my oppinion, all the heat goes up the chimney. I usually close it as far as it will go once I get the fire going so that I can control the fire a bit.

Yes, a flue damper is a variable resistance that slows velocity in the chimney. This affects the stove by reducing the draft created by chimney. The rising gasses lighter than air inside the flue cause a low pressure area in the flue, connector pipe and stove. Atmospheric air pressure PUSHES air into the stove intake or anywhere else it can leak into the stove, pipe or chimney.This chimney control is for overdraft situations which with a homemade "insulated liner" you would need to slow it down. If the chimney flue diameter were larger than the stove outlet, you can't always close the damper much, needing that extra heat to be left up to heat a larger area flue. You are within the correct diameter flue, but over 15 feet you need more heat left up to compensate for cooling flue gasses at the top. So you're limited to how much you can close the damper with a smaller stove. That is a copy of an Atlanta 27 BOX which was also made in a 32 inch larger model, can't tell what size yours is, but it looks small. Flue should be stainless since black pipe used that way can rust through in a much shorter time.

Oversize flues which need more heat are the number one cause of smoke inside, so I wanted to make sure that wasn't the issue. Make sure it hasn't rusted through and is allowing cool air into the inner flue somewhere. With the correct low pressure area inside, you should never get smoke leaking out. Any leak IN causes the cooler air leaking in to cool rising gasses reducing draft causing a lower pressure differential, allowing smoke to leak out......

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

Stove was installed about 8 years ago. I bought it new at that time. As you said, it was a little bit rough of an install. I did it myself. The fireplace was meant for burning wood, and it has a steel door damper that was cemented in. With the door all the way open, I was able to squeeze the 6 inch single wall pipe through. I had to use several twist-angle pieces to get everything line up with the stove. On the other side of the existing damper, there is what appears to be a square chimney of firebrick that's about 11 inches square. I decided to just run the 6 inch single wall up inside this all the way to the top of the chimney. There's no cap on the top of the chimney. (long story) That's why when it rains, rain drips down the chimney and causes rust on the 6 in pipe and the stove. Oh, I forgot to mention that I closed off the rest of the area around the 6 in pipe with fiberglass insulation to block air/smoke/whatever from coming back down the chimney.

Using fiberglass insulation is not recommended, it will disintegrate, use Roxul instead.

 

[weatherguy]

Id go with #5, get a new airtight epa stove connect it properly and it will pay for itself in no time, and your wife will be happy.

 

[CorvetteZ0606]

I had that same exact model stove, the first stove I ever had, back in Georgia in 1971. I thought it was great at the time, because it was the only stove I had ever used.

Since then, I have had six more stoves and now I realize what a piece of junk that stove was. Get rid of it you won't believe how much better life is with a good new wood stove.

I'm starting to warm up to this idea. As coaly says, I may have a rust problem at this point. When I was running the stove regularly, I don't think I had any holes in the flue, but it's been sitting and getting rained on and I haven't used it for quite a while.

Ok, so if I'm going to replace the whole setup, I don't want to buy another "crappy" stove. However, I don't want to spend an arm and a leg either. Do you guys have any recomendations for good candidates or particular ones to stay away from?

I'll probably stop by a fireplace store soonish, but I don't know what to look for in a stove. I think most people are concerned with looks, but I don't really care how it looks too much. I mainly just want it to make lots of heat, not smell, and not be too expensive.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[begreen]

The main question for a replacement is how tall is the fireplace opening. That will determine what options there are. If an insert is in mind we will need full fireplace dimensions.

 

[CorvetteZ0606]

The fireplace is 21.5 inches deep. It's 36.75 inches wide at the opening (widest point). (It gets a little bit narrower as you go back further. It's 28.75 inches tall at the opening. At the top of the opening there's a cavity that goes up to where the original damper is cemented in place. I imagine the critical part is just getting the stove to slide under the 28.75 inch tall lip, then the flue can be attached after the stove is in place.

 

[begreen]

I imagine the critical part is just getting the stove to slide under the 28.75 inch tall lip, then the flue can be attached after the stove is in place.

Yes, not many stoves are that short. Inserts are much lower for this reason. There are some rear exit stoves that might vent under the lintel.

How large an area are you heating?

 

[CorvetteZ0606]

Yes, not many stoves are that short. Inserts are much lower for this reason. There are some rear exit stoves that might vent under the lintel.

How large an area are you heating?

My house is an A-Frame. The fireplace is in the main living area. It's 1100 sq feet on the first floor where the stove will be and there's 350 square feet in the loft.

While I was out today, I stopped by Northern Tool. (One of the very few places around here that carries wood stoves) and I saw the only fireplace insert they had: Vogelzang "The Colonial" Fireplace Insert, Model# TR004
Item# 172922 https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200394621_200394621
I have no idea if this stove is any good or not, but from the specs it looks like it would fit into my fireplace. I just don't want to invest in a dud.

 

[cahaak]

You could fit a little century S244 in there and it would be a big step up for you and they are less than $500. Most stoves are taller than the opening you indicated, but the S244 would fit.

 

[moresnow]

Good to hear your on the hunt for a replacement. Are you looking for occasional fires for supplemental heat? 24/7 heat? What burn time are you hoping to get? Do you want/need it to make it overnight?
Lots of options for the pro's here to chime in on as far as make/models. I can tell you from experience that the Century S244 mentioned above puts out some real big heat for its size. The drawback was having to reload it often.
Not sure you will get much positive feedback on the Vogelzang. Take some time to research.