Horizontal Venters - Baffled by differing results of Horizontal venting

[bungalobob]

What I don't understand is why some people have problems with soot on outside of home and some don't with horizontal venting. Why do some get burning cinders and sparks from the exhaust and some don't? Why do some get smoke inside their home with a power failure, and some don't. Is it the brand of stove? The quality of the installation? The quality of the pellets? Or something as simple as just pure luck? Would love to hear from some with experience.

 

[kyburnr]

Ditto..... Great questions .......... This should be good

 

[breklaw]

there are ALWAYS prevailing winds, which create flows and pressures that follow the contours of the landscape, aggrivated by the very structures which contain the devices in question, and there may be a significant natural negative or positive pressure in 1 building, that does not appear in a close by similar structure. these issues are made even worse in bad weather.

 

[pegdot]

there are ALWAYS prevailing winds, which create flows and pressures that follow the contours of the landscape, aggrivated by the very structures which contain the devices in question, and there may be a significant natural negative or positive pressure in 1 building, that does not appear in a close by similar structure. these issues are made even worse in bad weather.

What he said! lol In layman's terms that means horizontal venting is a crap shoot.

 

[bungalobob]

there are ALWAYS prevailing winds, which create flows and pressures that follow the contours of the landscape, aggrivated by the very structures which contain the devices in question, and there may be a significant natural negative or positive pressure in 1 building, that does not appear in a close by similar structure. these issues are made even worse in bad weather.

What he said! lol In layman's terms that means horizontal venting is a crap shoot.

Crap shoot or like I figured- something as simple as just pure luck.

 

[kelvin]

These are great questions. I had planned to do a horizontal vent for my stove which I installed yesterday. But I chickened out at the last minute based on comments in other threads in this forum.

I added a tee, 3 feet of rise, and an elbow. Stove runs beautifully, but I am pretty convinced this was a waste of $175, and a decent chunk of time. Nobody I know who has horizonal venting has had a problem.

My manual has dozens of stern warning boxes (WARNING: Do not yada yada yada) on all kinds of stuff. Yet it presents straight out venting as a perfectly acceptable option. Since sparks flying outside just above grade and smoke in the house are safety-related issues, seems like if these problems really existed (to any worrisome extent) that venting config would be prohibited by the manual.

I'll never know if I would have won the crap shoot because I didn't play!

 

[bungalobob]

These are great questions. I had planned to do a horizontal vent for my stove which I installed yesterday. But I chickened out at the last minute based on comments in other threads in this forum.

I added a tee, 3 feet of rise, and an elbow. Stove runs beautifully, but I am pretty convinced this was a waste of $175, and a decent chunk of time. Nobody I know who has horizonal venting has had a problem.

My manual has dozens of stern warning boxes (WARNING: Do not yada yada yada) on all kinds of stuff. Yet it presents straight out venting as a perfectly acceptable option. Since sparks flying outside just above grade and smoke in the house are safety-related issues, seems like if these problems really existed (to any worrisome extent) that venting config would be prohibited by the manual.

I'll never know if I would have won the crap shoot because I didn't play!

Really thought that some of the sellers and installers in these forums would have some knowledge on this subject and let us in on some possible answers. I guess there is no answer, except for maybe what is alluded to above-$$$$$. Considering that the pipe manufacturers and their salespeople would rather you go vertical because more pipe would mean more money lining their pockets, maybe that's the answer. It looks like if a horizontal is done correctly and terminates at least 18-24" away from home there is no soot buildup on the exterior of the home. I saw the picture on here that shows the termination right next to the wall and all the soot damage, but obviously that was a bad install. I still hope for some insight, by the end of winter I will have my own experience to post.

 

[hearthtools]

To me Vertical venting is not to make more money
I dont Direct vent in my store or any of my homes or friends homes. I dont even direct vent when im am testing an in shop service in my shop. I put vertical pipe on it.
it is to save me the grief of the customer calling my back because of smoke in the house and on the side of the home.
I have Way to many pellet stove customers to be going back all the time.

A few reasons to Vertical.

Why not just do it right the first time and NOT go back and do it again correctly.

Vertical pipe will keep all bad gases from coming back into your home through a door or window. Even it if is over 4 feet away wind can carry it back into your home.

The vertical pipe will allow better draft when the stove is running and when it is shut off. (suddenly)

The vertical pipe will act like a ash trap and collect ash in the pipe and not on the side of your house or Side walk/ Deck

No hot cap or gases for some kid or person to burn them selfs on.

Vertical pipe will keep all bad gases from coming back into your home through a door or window. Even it if is over 4 feet away wind can carry it back into your home.

Most manuals will have warnings that you can direct vent but best NOT TO.
Just like having sex with out protection you can do it but best not to or something MIGHT HAPPEN

 

[bungalobob]

To me Vertical venting is not to make more money
I dont Direct vent in my store or any of my homes or friends homes. I dont even direct vent when im am testing an in shop service in my shop. I put vertical pipe on it.
it is to save me the grief of the customer calling my back because of smoke in the house and on the side of the home.
I have Way to many pellet stove customers to be going back all the time.

A few reasons to Vertical.

Why not just do it right the first time and NOT go back and do it again correctly.

Vertical pipe will keep all bad gases from coming back into your home through a door or window. Even it if is over 4 feet away wind can carry it back into your home.

The vertical pipe will allow better draft when the stove is running and when it is shut off. (suddenly)

The vertical pipe will act like a ash trap and collect ash in the pipe and not on the side of your house or Side walk/ Deck

No hot cap or gases for some kid or person to burn them selfs on.

Vertical pipe will keep all bad gases from coming back into your home through a door or window. Even it if is over 4 feet away wind can carry it back into your home.

Most manuals will have warnings that you can direct vent but best NOT TO.
Just like having sex with out protection you can do it but best not to or something MIGHT HAPPEN

This is at least at little helpful. It doesn't explain why some have no problems and some do. I can see how the vertical pipe will act like an ash trap though, that makes sense. But besides this, the other points you make, which all make sense to go vertical, doesn't explain why some people have problems and some don't.
I can't help but think that it is the quality of the stove and how well it is tuned. Black smoke and soot usually mean that not enough air is being supplied to a fire. If a pellet stove is properly tuned up, and is of a good enough quality of a stove so that it can be properly tuned up, then there shouldn't really be any black smoke or soot, correct?

 

[hearthtools]

you are right Black is bad

all depends on Flue temps
and how much baffleing the stove has to trap soot and ash before it goes into the venting

but I have a 60,000 btu Omega
burns nice and clean in the stove and at the combustion blower
http://www.hearthtools.com/pellet/enviro/multifuelpotselfclean.jpg
but at my cap it gets black.
I think this is all because of the Cooler exhast temps at the end of the venting.


Black soot is also from COOLER gases.
the Exhaust is much hotter before it goes into the combustion blower.
If you have cooler pipe it will build up black.

 

[bungalobob]

Now that I have some actual burning experience, here is what I have learned. My Harman P68 runs great, nice and clean, no black smoke or soot, just a white cloud on start up. I did do the direct vent horizontal install with the end pointing at an angle downward. While I have not experienced any soot, what I have experienced is that when I clean the ash and clinkers around the burnpot and close the pellet stove's door, the combustion air grabs hold of that loose ash that I just kicked up and sends it flying out the vent. Found this out after the recent snowstorm last week. It was brown ash on the white snow. Something I did not notice was happening till the snow fell. It's not a lot, but is easily seen on snow. It is landing away from the house and on the ground. I guess if I went vertical this would be landing on my roof, or on my neighbors property. At the end of the season I'll do a thorough check and see how much actually is around my home near the pipe.