House layout and air movement

[ColdNH]

So i just recently posted about the F500 we just got a great deal on.

Our house is a Cape with a full dormer, 2 bedrooms upstairs and a full bath (neither being used currently) and a master bedroom and full bath on the first floor. The house is approximately 2k sq feet including the second floor.

I will be happy if the stove can adequately heat the first floor and possibly help heat the 2nd floor.

Here is the floor plan. Im certain that the stove will easily heat the living room, kitchen and possible the office, but Im starting to think it may be difficult to get the warm air into the master bedroom and especially the master bath.

I plan on utilizing fans pushing the cold air from the master bedroom towards the stove, just wondering what you guys thought?

 

[jimbom]

You may have to experiment as most of the important variables are unique to your house, orientation, wind, sun, insulation, and family use patterns.

 

[Armoured]

Where is the stove here?

 

[Wade A.]

Yeah, hard to tell from your post if you need advice on just chosing the location, or just air circulation, or maybe both.

On chosing a location...

Really, I think it comes down to what you your priority is. Do you want the location that provides the most even heat distribution, or do you want the stove in a place where you spend the most time and will have the maximum opportunity to enjoy it? Ideally, there is a location that covers both, but no likely. If it were me? Just based on your floorplan, the living area seems the most central location. Then again, some folks live in their kitchen.

 

[ColdNH]

Where is the stove here?

that would help right!

RIght in the middle of the house in the living room. that oddly shaped polygon is the chimney/hearth

 

[ColdNH]

Yeah, hard to tell from your post if you need advice on just chosing the location, or just air circulation, or maybe both.

On chosing a location...

Really, I think it comes down to what you your priority is. Do you want the location that provides the most even heat distribution, or do you want the stove in a place where you spend the most time and will have the maximum opportunity to enjoy it? Ideally, there is a location that covers both, but no likely. If it were me? Just based on your floorplan, the living area seems the most central location. Then again, some folks live in their kitchen.

correct, the stove is sitting on the hearth right now in the living room waiting to be installed. i guess what im asking is will the heat be able to migrate into the master bedroom or will it be freezing cold in there? its not a huge concern as 95% of our time awake is spent in the living room, but it would be nice not to have to rely on a space heater in the master bedroom.

 

[Armoured]

correct, the stove is sitting on the hearth right now in the living room waiting to be installed. i guess what im asking is will the heat be able to migrate into the master bedroom or will it be freezing cold in there? its not a huge concern as 95% of our time awake is spent in the living room, but it would be nice not to have to rely on a space heater in the master bedroom.

Easy and lazy answer is to say that if you're that far along, install it and see! If there was some kind of air exchange between living room and master bed/bath, you'd be more likely to get a circular airflow going.

But I doubt it'll be freezing cold, most likely just cooler than the other rooms. Extra blanket should do it. Wait and try it before taking any drastic steps.

 

[Wade A.]

Right. Well, given that you know where the stove will/has to go, you'll have the answer soon enough. My prediction though is it will be tough to draw warm air all the way around the horn to your bedroom to any significant degree. I might look at cutting an air return vent in the wall between the MB closet and bathroom, if that is possible. It is sort of hard to tell, but if your hearth has brick/stone that is exposed to the MB, you might get the benefit of that thermal mass if you are burning regularly.

 

[Armoured]

Wade's suggestion is almost exaclty what I was thinking, air return vent and then a fan (if needed) to push cold air out the door. But it'll depend on the house, the walls - and whether you like your bedroom cooler.

 

[tcassavaugh]

my bedroom is in the back and if i open the double door, the heat makes it back there through natural convection. its cooler than the rest of the house, but i like to sleep in cooler temps. wait and try it, then make adjustments accordingly.

cass

 

[Jack Straw]

My concern is that the heat will go up the stairs before it gets to the bedroom. The heat going up the stairs may lower the whole 1st floor. You may want to hang a curtain in the stairway to see what differance it makes.

 

[DexterDay]

Place a Tjernlund Aireshare (through the wall fan) in the Master bath wall.

Some cases it better to push the cold air out of that room and warm air will go down the hall and enter the Master Bedroom door, replacing the Cold air with warm air. But with the steps being in that path, it may be of interest to install up high and blow warm air into the Bath and the cold air will be sucked out the Master beds door (loop).

I have a Broan (#512) and a Aireshare (AS1) installed. They work great. Both do a great job. The Broan has more CFM (90 cfm), but the Aireshare is more than twice as quiet (75 cfm). It allows us to close bedroom doors in the dead of Winter. Hot air is pushed in the top of the room and cold air is sucked out from under the gap, at the bottom of the door (over 1").

The Aireshare also is pretty discrete. It uses the studs inside the wall as an air channel. You can install the Intake up high, and exhaust down low, or intake low amd exhaust high, or put in-line with one another. I installed intake up high and exhaust about mid-way up wall. (Pic attached- Large vent is intake with blower and small slit is exhaust).

Make sure any holes in walls are within 10' of stove. Also check local code to see whats allowed and whats not...

 

[coverdome]

Cut a door between the master bath and the living room and leave it open. If you spend lots of time in the living room it will be more convenient than going to the bathroom on the other side of the kitchen. Doors ain't hard in normal frame wall.

 

[ColdNH]

Place a Tjernlund Aireshare (through the wall fan) in the Master bath wall.

Some cases it better to push the cold air out of that room and warm air will go down the hall and enter the Master Bedroom door, replacing the Cold air with warm air. But with the steps being in that path, it may be of interest to install up high and blow warm air into the Bath and the cold air will be sucked out the Master beds door (loop).

I have a Broan (#512) and a Aireshare (AS1) installed. They work great. Both do a great job. The Broan has more CFM (90 cfm), but the Aireshare is more than twice as quiet (75 cfm). It allows us to close bedroom doors in the dead of Winter. Hot air is pushed in the top of the room and cold air is sucked out from under the gap, at the bottom of the door (over 1").

The Aireshare also is pretty discrete. It uses the studs inside the wall as an air channel. You can install the Intake up high, and exhaust down low, or intake low amd exhaust high, or put in-line with one another. I installed intake up high and exhaust about mid-way up wall. (Pic attached- Large vent is intake with blower and small slit is exhaust).

Make sure any holes in walls are within 10' of stove. Also check local code to see whats allowed and whats not...

I really like this idea. my only concern is pushing around bathroom air. I may have a spot to put this between the master bedroom and the living room, its drawn as a double wall in my sketch, but i believe its only a single wall. id have to grab a measuring tape and find out.

Thanks for the advice

 

[bluedogz]

My house layout is surprisingly similar... my stove is all the way at the left of your layout, somewhere on the deck (in your diagram.) I have a tower fan just outside the stove room blowing into the stove room on low. The NC30 heats the whole house with the possible exception of the very farthest spare bedrooms.

I agree with blocking off the stairs in some way... maybe a curtain?

 

[scotsman]

After studying the layout, I think I would put a passive vent low in the "north" wall of the master bath and install a powered fan through the floor/ceiling in the SE corner of the MBR. This would give the colder air two return paths and bring the warm, second story air down. I'd suggest a Broan #510 (variable up to 380 cfm, or comparable, and pretty quiet. I put one between the main room and the north BR in our house and it seems to move plenty of air.). This would seem the least destructive of the options I came up with. This is assuming you have a second story that has the same outside walls as the first, but I think that's what capes are like, from the little I know about 'em. This would also help heat the MBath and maybe help clear the humidity. One word of caution: Unless you like to sleep warm, you might want to limit the amount of heat in the MBR. You could still do the same mods, but not turn the fan on as much or maybe at all. With a variable fan speed, you could be in control of that with a large degree of precision. Maybe run it during the day and let things cool off in there towards evening. OR maybe close the Master door, forcing the warm air through the MBath, warming the bath for evening showers or whatever. All kinds of control possibilities! We decided not to put a vent into our BR because we didn't want the extra heat, since we like cooler sleeping quarters.
Keep us posted on what you decide. Looks like fun, whatever you do. I love doin' stuff like this.

 

[scotsman]

Meant to ask: Does this house have ceiling fans?

 

[ColdNH]

Meant to ask: Does this house have ceiling fans?

Good stuff, im excited for winter! lots of good options in this thread. who knows we do like it colder in the bedroom so it may not even be an issue. There is one ceiling fan but its in the kitchen where there is a vaulted ceiling.

 

[scotsman]

Good stuff, im excited for winter! lots of good options in this thread. who knows we do like it colder in the bedroom so it may not even be an issue. There is one ceiling fan but its in the kitchen where there is a vaulted ceiling.

Ceiling fans are easy to install and yield benefits in the winter (and summer) all out of proportion to their cost and installation hassle. Our house has ceiling fans everywhere, even in the master bath, kitchen and garage in addition to every bedroom (5 of 'em!). Especially in an upstairs room one can mix the air, making everything more uniform in temp BUT also move that high warm air down to the floor where that fan in the floor can pick it up and move it down into the first floor area. A two-story house is far easier to manage the temps in than one more horizontal. Well, 'cept out here in W. Texas, where the wind blows all the time! Ceiling fans can allow you to spend lots less on heat and A/C as will your stove. They are at least as important a tool for me as anything else I could do.

 

[swagler85]

More of a question from me here than an answer. How effective would it be to use the blower on the furnace to move air throughout the house?

 

[DexterDay]

More of a question from me here than an answer. How effective would it be to use the blower on the furnace to move air throughout the house?

About 90%-95% of people do not have good luck with that. As the air os cooled going through your ductwork. Therr is a significant heat loss. It will cool the hot room in the house (stove room), but wont effectively warm the cold rooms...

Do a search. Lots have failed. Some get it to work. But there Cold air return is normally very close to the stove, ducts are insulated, and short runs. Also being able to control the speed (2 speed or more blower) would help. Moving the air slower will work better than faster.

Worth a shot to try it...... Cant hurt..... Always best to experiment and find what works best for you.

 

[xman23]

We get the stove cranking the house heats up from the top down. Once our loft and first floor living, kitchen and dining room gets hot we get cold air that runs about 3 ft off the floor out of the back bedrooms. When this air flow kicks in I need to get out of the way of the cold air. My theory is the heat runs into the back bedrooms across the ceiling, pushing the cold air out at the floor. We have a open floor plan and cathedral ceiling, so the heat is great every where. The first floor back bedrooms are about 8 degrees lower.

 

[ColdNH]

About 90%-95% of people do not have good luck with that. As the air os cooled going through your ductwork. Therr is a significant heat loss. It will cool the hot room in the house (stove room), but wont effectively warm the cold rooms...

Do a search. Lots have failed. Some get it to work. But there Cold air return is normally very close to the stove, ducts are insulated, and short runs. Also being able to control the speed (2 speed or more blower) would help. Moving the air slower will work better than faster.

Worth a shot to try it...... Cant hurt..... Always best to experiment and find what works best for you.

plus i have hydronic hot water, so it definitly will not work! ha!

I actually worry slightly about some of the pipes freezing this coming winter the basement is a walkout and the only heat down there is from the furnace, if its not running as much there wont be as much heat down there, the previous owner had pipes freeze down there even without a woodstove. so it should be intersting, he did say he beefed up the garage doors and the insulation but we will see.

 

[DexterDay]

plus i have hydronic hot water, so it definitly will not work! ha!

I actually worry slightly about some of the pipes freezing this coming winter the basement is a walkout and the only heat down there is from the furnace, if its not running as much there wont be as much heat down there, the previous owner had pipes freeze down there even without a woodstove. so it should be intersting, he did say he beefed up the garage doors and the insulation but we will see.

The search function here is amazing. Its like Google for woodstove, Pelletstove, Boiler, Etc....

Here ya go..... Thermgard https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/freezing-pipes.38212/#post-488504

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts . . .

I'm thinking with the lay-out of the house and stairway where it is that the master bedroom will be cool . . . and the "fan technique" may not work . . . but that said, I would give it a try first. I tend to like the bedroom cooler . . . and the worse that may happen is you have to run the heat there or do a little bit of construction this coming winter.

Seal up the basement . . . I have yet to have any issues with frozen pipes despite not running my baseboard heat . . . between sealing up the place, the domestic hot water giving off some heat and the natural heat from the ground the basement (kind of a cross between a crawl space and basement -- it is a basement, but not tall enough to stand in) is quite comfortable year round.

I'm curious . . . is that a carousel or large merry-go-around out back near the kitchen?